dewalt57 Posted March 24, 2014 #1 Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Starting my build of the H.M.S. Triton, 24:1 Scale, got the Keel parts completed, looking foreword to enjoying the build, just need permission to access D/L files. And no!!..... that red color on the wood is not blood.... LOL Its Cedar!! I cut a Cedar tree down last year and figured I'd use the wood.....this is my first ship build, so if it don't work out good, no expensive wood will be wasted.... I can always mess up good wood later... LOL And I heard some where that Keel worms don't like Cedar.... LOL Cheers AL Edited April 25, 2014 by dewalt57 harvey1847, mtaylor and fatih79 3 H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
Pete38 Posted March 24, 2014 #2 Posted March 24, 2014 Good start to your build, It is going to be a big one at that scale. If you are using cedar in your build you should not have any "moths" in your ship when done... Looking forward to more progress... Triton Cross Section 1:32 SEE YA LATER
42rocker Posted March 24, 2014 #3 Posted March 24, 2014 And a Good Smell also. LOL Welcome to building the cross section. Good Luck with it. Later Tim Current Build -- Finishing a 1:1 House that I've been building for a while Current Build -- Triton Cross Section
dewalt57 Posted March 24, 2014 Author #4 Posted March 24, 2014 Thanks Tim & Pete!! AL H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
dewalt57 Posted March 24, 2014 Author #5 Posted March 24, 2014 This is what I made the Keel parts shown from...... a chunk of re-cycled Cedar tree! AL mtaylor 1 H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
dewalt57 Posted March 24, 2014 Author #6 Posted March 24, 2014 Milled flat on top & bottom. AL fatih79 and mtaylor 2 H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
dewalt57 Posted March 24, 2014 Author #7 Posted March 24, 2014 Then......... using my DIY CNC Wood Milling machine, sliced off one part at a time. AL fatih79, mtaylor, harvey1847 and 1 other 4 H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
Pete38 Posted March 24, 2014 #8 Posted March 24, 2014 That is very nice. Did you create the plans yourself for the cnc wood milling machine or obtain them somewhere else? If it is programmable from a cad software would be real handy doing a POB build. Just curious... This should be a very interesting build...Looking forward to more.... Triton Cross Section 1:32 SEE YA LATER
dewalt57 Posted March 24, 2014 Author #9 Posted March 24, 2014 Hi Pete! I started out with Wood Router Mill plans for a Joe's 4x4 Hybrid, got the main parts then decided to build my own parts out of alum instead of MDF, I guess I set the standard because now everybody has switched over to alum, even Joe the original designer...LOL. Then I rebuilt that machine using "Cast CNC" parts, so basically its a Joe's 4x4 Hybrid converted to Cast alum parts and my own designed Z axis assembly. She'll do a 4'x4' cutting area but I normally only use it for X=4', Y=2', mainly because I left room at the front for a DIY 4th rotating axis, so its set up to 4 axis work. I have to do some modifications to the mechanical rotator on the 4th axis but I have it wired up to run. I hope to make my cannons, belaying pins, ships wheel handles.... etc. on it, in other words anything round!!! I'll be using the CNC wood mill to cut all my hull formers.... etc... anything I can cut on it I will! I'll be doing this ship cross section with as much CNC help as I can. I run Mach3Mill as the gcode driver software pushing a 4 axis HobbyCnc driver board which powers the stepper motors, Vectric Aspire software as my gcode generator, and DesignCad3DMax V22 as my CAD software, in 2D mode, still haven't taught myself 3D CAD yet, I always do my work in 2D. I also have a Harbor Freight Mini Lathe, HF Mini Mill with DIY powered X axis, kind of a mini metal machine & wood machine shop for hobby use. All in a small room 12x12 inside the house where its warm!!...LOL AL Pete38, cristikc, harvey1847 and 1 other 4 H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
dewalt57 Posted March 24, 2014 Author #10 Posted March 24, 2014 The one thing I wish was that all ship drawing files were in DXF format instead of PDF. DXF is a vectored drawing that can be scaled and manipulated in a CAD program very easily where as a PDF file is a raster files and can not be manipulated in a CAD program, it can be imported and drawn on top of, its like redrawing the whole ship again!!!... LOL I haven't found a PDF to CAD program that will reliably convert with out making lines distorted and totally messing up the drawing, in the end I've ended up redrawing over the converted drawing.. LOL Why DXF you may ask? The CNC wood mill software (I use Aspire) wants vectored type drawings to convert to gcode, it will not make gcode out of PDF files and no gcode means no cut file!! So I'll have to redraw all these PDF files of hull formers so I can make gcode cut files in Aspire that can be understood by the router machine driver software (Mach3). Yes, its a lot of work but a labor of love to be sure!! So don't misunderstand me, I feel very fortunate just to get the PDF files for this project!!! If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.... LOL DXF was years ago THE standard file protocol between CAD programs, still is I guess, how PDF got into the game is anybody's guess, I guess because its everywhere you look now, PDF files can be locked files which can not be changed by people, are easily read by millions of people all over the world, can be printed easily, free viewer, etc...etc. In other words the only game in town if your not CAD savvy like some of us are.... LOL So I guess I better get busy with my CAD software and get started doing some drawings..... LOL AL H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
dewalt57 Posted March 24, 2014 Author #11 Posted March 24, 2014 Now just where exactly does it say that on here!!!! I see no such thing implied on the file stipulations. AL H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
dewalt57 Posted March 25, 2014 Author #12 Posted March 25, 2014 I understand your position, this was not explained in the file stipulations that you had to make a ship a certain way!! Maybe this should be posted for new people to understand before putting the plans out for building! Have a nice day! AL H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
Chuck Posted March 25, 2014 #13 Posted March 25, 2014 Al You can use the plans and use CNC to cut out the parts. As long as they are for your own personal use on this project then feel free to use any method to cut out the parts. As the hobby matures, folks are starting to use new tools and technology. Who are we to stand in the way. I happen to prefer a sharp chisel or a scroll saw but other now find CAD and CNC or even laser cutting just as much a part of the process. Its no different than someone using a Sherline Mill or Lathe vs. a jewelers saw and chisel. The project is an introduction to scratch building and scratch building techniques. CNC is just one of those techniques that are newer. CAD and CNC are fast becoming a fun part of this hobby for lots of people. They should be made to feel welcome here. So again I will welcome you to the group and forum. Build away and enjoy the project. The only disclaimer is that it be for your own personal use and you cant distribute cut parts to other builders. I will enjoy watching you progress and dont hesitate to ask me any questions. You have the complete blessing and authority from ADMIN and Owner alike. Chuck mtaylor, Dan Vadas, harvey1847 and 1 other 4 Chuck Passaro - MSW Admin Sloop Speedwell - POF scratch Block Island Boat - POF scratch HMS Winchelsea - POB scratch build HM Cutter Cheerful - POB scratch build Royal Barge - POF scratch Medway Longboat- POF Scratch SYREN SHIP MODEL COMPANY
allanyed Posted March 26, 2014 #14 Posted March 26, 2014 Hi Al, I for one look forward to watching your progress. I have gone from PDF to DXF for other drawings but it was a circuitous route to get there and it would be so much easier if there was a dxf with which to start. It will be interesting for me to see what route you take. Allan PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU
dewalt57 Posted March 27, 2014 Author #15 Posted March 27, 2014 I agree Allen, its a real pain to do! Basically.... I just draw a new line on top of a captured screen shot of the PDF which is saved as a JPG file, the JPG file is then pulled into my 2D CAD program and placed in the back ground. Then I draw on top of the original lines, getting as close to accurate as I can to the original shape. I have yet to find a good raster to vector converter that doesn't distort the image which still has to be redrawn by hand, so might as well do it by hand to start with and not even deal with any converter program distortions. Slow, yes!!..... its a labor of love for sure !! One aspect of it is that you get very familiar with the object your making! Once the new drawing is made, it is sized to the scale needed for the build and exported as a DXF file for use in my GCODE program which makes the cut file for the wood router to follow to make the part. AL harvey1847 1 H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
dewalt57 Posted March 27, 2014 Author #16 Posted March 27, 2014 What a finished cut part might look like, according to the gcode software, after the router has its way with the wood...depends on a few factors like bit used, type of wood, air temp, humidity, if your above or below the equator.... etc...LOL AL harvey1847, 42rocker, WackoWolf and 2 others 5 H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
allanyed Posted March 27, 2014 #17 Posted March 27, 2014 Al The method you describe is pretty much the way I have done this, albeit in a limited way. The same method has been used by others to completely redraw old sets of plans such as found at NMM and other sources. Allan PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU
ziled68 Posted March 27, 2014 #18 Posted March 27, 2014 Good Morning Al, I was just looking over your full post and it seems that you program your computer in order for it to tell the machine what to cut and how to cut material. I believe that is what I got out of it and if so, how much would something like this cost? I ask because when it comes to anything dealing with computers I'm all thumbs take for instance this post I'm writing. I'm actually typing using the hunt and peck method. Any info you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Ray Raymond Current Build: USF Essex Completed Builds: 1745 Mediator Sloop 1:147 scale New Bedford Whaleboat H.M.S. Triton cross-section Vietnamese_Junk
Matrim Posted March 27, 2014 #19 Posted March 27, 2014 New toys - look how beautifully accurate that frame piece is.... ...
dewalt57 Posted March 27, 2014 Author #20 Posted March 27, 2014 Allen...... yes, there is no easy way to it other then a good hand drawn CAD drawing. Ray..... approx. $5000 over a period of time for a "Build it yourself" machine plus software and a dedicated computer for it. Matrim..... I only wished it would come out like the program shows.... LOL A finished part that needs no sanding....NOT !!!... LOL AL H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
dewalt57 Posted March 27, 2014 Author #21 Posted March 27, 2014 Having not decided on a type of wood and needing to test a new cutting bit, I did a test cut on some Oak I had. Here's the results. Did have some tear outs doing the surfacing to height but could use the side to glue on. The cut out sides had no tear outs and don't look too bad at all with this new bit I'm trying out. I'll be replacing those Cedar Keel parts with Oak soon!! Here's the parameters I used to cut with: 1/16" Micro Bit, type unknown, 4 fluke, depth of cut 3/8" max. Pass depth : .0250" per pass ( 15 passes to complete cut ). Feed Rate: 20 IPM Plunge Rate 20 IPM Ramped cut Tabs: .200" length, .100" Thick. 16 mins total time to finish cut. AL Jolley Roger, fatih79, Pete38 and 3 others 6 H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
dewalt57 Posted March 28, 2014 Author #22 Posted March 28, 2014 Cut another test former and placed a short section of Keel for a mock-up and check the V-notch location. Looks good to me! AL mtaylor, WackoWolf, harvey1847 and 1 other 4 H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
Pete38 Posted March 28, 2014 #23 Posted March 28, 2014 That is looking really nice. I wonder with the cnc cutting if the accuracy will be close enough to help eliminate a lot of sanding to fair the build? Triton Cross Section 1:32 SEE YA LATER
dewalt57 Posted March 28, 2014 Author #24 Posted March 28, 2014 Pete....... I don't think it will totally eliminate the need for sanding to fair the hull but it seems to give a good point to start from. AL H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
42rocker Posted March 28, 2014 #25 Posted March 28, 2014 What you are doing looks great. Can't wait to see more. You might want to play with different feed rates on the last pass or two. Might make for a better finish. That said your finish looked good to me. Enjoy the build. A another person (different site) did a thread on cnc-ing a Sherline mill. He works in metal. A list of approx costs. 1st cnc stuff $500 - several sites can sell the motors etc under $500. 2nd program free 3rd computer hope that the one that you are reading this on can be used 4th sherline mill about $1,000. Lots of time and some building of the small parts. and it can be done. If you want details on this pm me so this thread is not high jacketed. Later Tim Don 1 Current Build -- Finishing a 1:1 House that I've been building for a while Current Build -- Triton Cross Section
ziled68 Posted March 28, 2014 #26 Posted March 28, 2014 Gentlemen, I greatly appreciate the CNC lessons you are providing. I must admit that what I've seen so far has impressed the snot out of me. This looks like something I'd like to try once I retire in another 5 years but that being said, I believe that I can at least see do the research. Al, I really look forward to seeing how you finish up "Your Triton". Raymond Current Build: USF Essex Completed Builds: 1745 Mediator Sloop 1:147 scale New Bedford Whaleboat H.M.S. Triton cross-section Vietnamese_Junk
dewalt57 Posted March 30, 2014 Author #27 Posted March 30, 2014 Testing with Treenailing the formers with bambo skewers. Not sure of their exact placement but this is one idea. Does look kind of cool and adds to the detail. These are approx. .093" in diameter skewers. Also tested a Minwax #235 Cherry stain/sealer on the Oak, looks good to me! AL fatih79 1 H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
ziled68 Posted March 31, 2014 #28 Posted March 31, 2014 Al, Your treenails look great. Sometimes treenails look a little bit exagerated and at times they are too small to even see and it leaves one wondering if the effort is even worth it. BTW, the cherry stain/sealer looks awesome. Raymond Current Build: USF Essex Completed Builds: 1745 Mediator Sloop 1:147 scale New Bedford Whaleboat H.M.S. Triton cross-section Vietnamese_Junk
dewalt57 Posted April 1, 2014 Author #29 Posted April 1, 2014 Thanks Ray!! Now if I could just find some more of that size skewers, I've had these for over 30 years as you can tell by the price tag on em.... LOL The one's I found recently are much bigger in diameter. Well.....What can I say.... I've changed the Scale to 18:1 !!!!! Can we say BIG!!! A single hull former is now a full 1/2" thick, normal stock size Red Oak at Lowes, right off the shelf!! Still cutting the Red Oak 1/2" x 6" x 48" with a 1/8" end mill bit in the router at 30 IPM taking .020" bites out at a time. Slow going but the results look great to me!! Here's a picture of Hull former parts after a few hours of cutting, even has scale hull worm marks cut into em.... LOL! That Red Oak has been sitting around here awhile and got cupped a tad on that one end, my drill bit dragged across the wood while drilling Treenail holes....I only had .100" clearance set on the drill bit safe Z height, my bad !!! My ta-rain following radar wasn't working at the time.... LOL AL fatih79 1 H.M.S. Triton, 28 gun frigate (Cross Section) 1:18 Scale build in progress
42rocker Posted April 1, 2014 #30 Posted April 1, 2014 Very interesting. Hope to see more. Later Tim Current Build -- Finishing a 1:1 House that I've been building for a while Current Build -- Triton Cross Section
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