Skipjack by KevinR - 1:24 - abandoned

[JesseLee]

.Just came across your build. The cross planking is something new to me too. Looking very good!

[KevinR]

Thanks everyone for stopping by and for the likes and comments. Well I have not made much progress over the last week. Took the admiral out of town this past weekend.

 

I have done a lot of research and come to a couple of conclusions. Steve Richard's book “Model Boat Building: The Skipjack” is only good for a very basic build. There are several of the finer details missing.

 

Someone gave me a copy of Ben Lankford's "Modeling Guide For Model Shipways Kit Willie L. Bennett" as well as the plans for the Model Shipway Willie Bennett. These items provide a lot of the details that I was looking for.

 

Online I have found the Historic American Engineering Records (Surveys) for the Skipjacks EC Collier (http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/md1203/) and Kathryn (http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/md1454/). These provide more details on the Skipjack construction methods used.

 

With these additional resources I will be using Steve Richard's book as more of a guideline and do some of my on thing.

 

Also, Marty want's me to make a working centerboard. So I will need to cut the slot in the keelson before I go any further. ( He didn't have to twist my arm to much.)

 

I will post some more progress soon.

[KevinR]

I am trying to figure out where the mast goes. Looking at the three plan I get three different ratios for the mast placement.

1) Willie Bennett: Length of Deck 42' 6"; Distance of Mast from Stem 7' 4"; Ratio: 0.17254

2) EC Collier: Length of Deck 49' 8"; Distance of Mast from Stem ~8'; Ratio: 0.16108

3) Kathryn: Length of Deck 50'; Distance of Mast from Stem ~10' 6"; Ratio: 0.21

 

My Skipjack: Length of Deck 44' 6"; Distance of Mast from Stem 1) 7.678', 2) 7.168', 3) 9.345'

 

In am going to discount Kathryn's measurement because she is not typical. She is not cross planked like the usual skipjack. She is framed and fore and aft planked.

 

Using the Willie Bennett's and the EC Collier's measurements give me 6" (1/4" in scale) to play with when placing the mast. The rake of the mast is 80 deg. The top of the mast should be centered over the hold.

 

My spreadsheet says the mast should be 59.88' and I calculate it should be 10.4 feet foreword of the center of the hatches. That places my mast 1' aft from what I figured.  I also noticed the Willie Bennett's and my centerboard are place way forward of the other 2 skipjacks. Steve Rogers based his plans off of the Willie Bennett so that is why they match up. Was there that much variation is the placement of the Centerboard? I wouldn't thank so. The placement of the centerboard would affect the way the boat handled.  If I move the centerboard aft 1.8' that will change my inboard layout some. O well I will figure it out.

 

Thanks for reading my ramble. More will probably be coming as I try to figure out what I am doing.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Kevin from Hampton Roads

[captainbob]

Kevin, the location of the mast depends on the size and shape of the sail.  The total sail area should be slightly ahead of the total below waterline area of the hull and keel, for proper balance in sailing.  So if the main is a little larger and the jib a little smaller the mast will be forward on the other hand if the jib is a little larger and the main a little smaller the mast will be farther back.  So there is no way to say because one boat has the mast at a certain spot all boats of that type must have their mast at the same place.  That is only true in “One Design” boats.

 

Bob

[KevinR]

Cap'n'Bob,

Thank you for the information. That helps me understand some of what I have read. When I search the internet I was coming up with "Center of Lateral Plane" and "Center of Effort". Which to someone who has never learned to sail, is Greek. I also read that it was not uncommon for the masts to be repositioned during a refit to correct handling issues.

 

Thanks again.

[captainbob]

In some boats the mast was mounted in such a way that the fore and back stays could be used to move the mast for better handling even while sailing.

 

Bob

[KevinR]

Hi Everyone,

Well The weekend is over and I have made some progress. Most of the progress was in researching and planning my next move. I spent 3 days planning where to put everything. My skipjack is very close in size to the Willie Bennet, so I did not want to use the same deck layout. I was hoping to put the second cabin midship like on EC Collier and Kathryn, but there was not enough room. So I believe my only concession to be different is that the forward cabin will have a flat roof and not sloped like the Willie Bennet.

The living accommodations on the Skipjacks were pretty slim. The headroom in the aft cabin on the Willie Bennet was only 3-1/2 feet. On the EC Collier (50') which was 7 feet longer, the headroom was 5 feet in the aft cabin and 3-1/2 feet in the midship cabin. Apparently the second cabin on Skipjacks was only big enough to lay down in and the aft (main) cabin was barely big enough to sit and cook in.

 

I got back to work on the boat and added the aft strongback, the forward strongback with knees and started adding the ceiling floor in the fo'c'sle cabin.

[SawdustDave]

Hope you don't mind if I pull up a chair for this beautiful build Kevin. What a clean job you're doing here. Amazing detail.

Cheers

Dave

[captainbob]

The framing and floors in the bottom look great it's a shame to cover it with planking.

 

Bob

[druxey]

Just 'discovered' your build log. Very nice work and interesting construction details, Kevin.

[Omega1234]

Hi Kevin

 

Your Skipjack's coming along beautifully. Great detail!

 

All the best

 

Patrick

[KevinR]

A belated welcome to JesseLee. And Welcome Dave and Druxey.

 

Thank you everyone for all the complements and the likes.

 

Cap'n'Bob, I like the detail of the framing and the cross planking as well. It it is a shame to hide it, I just hope the ceiling floor will look good enough to make up for it. What is really a shame, is the whole thing will be painted except for the wainscoting in the aft cabin.

 

Marty, after drilling a couple of holes in the keelson and trying to join the holes together, I decided I really did not want a working centerboard. Maybe next time.

 

My first foray into scratch building should have been with a set of plans, not a book showing how easy it is to build a skipjack. If I was to do it all over again I would build the EC Collier. The plans are very detailed and combined with the information for the Willie Bennet, would make a beautiful and detailed model. 

 

If someone wanted to build a plank on frame model of a Skipjack, the plans for the Kathryn are almost as complete as the EC Collier's. I thought it was funny that the skipjack was suppose to be an easy and cheap boat to build and someone comes along and spends the extra money to build one plank on frame. i.e the Skipjack Kathryn. The Kathryn may look like the other Skipjacks but she was built to last. The EC Collier was made of pine and fir. The Kathryn used oak framing and I believe pine planking. The plans for both describe the materials used in the original construction. 

 

My plan is to leave the hatches open to both of the cabins and allow the hatch covers to be removed. This will allow viewing of the inside details. My fall back plan is to glue them shut if I screw it up. It is always good to have a plan.

 

Speaking of planning below is some of my planning for the aft cabin. I need to reduce the cabin hieght by about 6 inches.

 

 

 

 

[michael20]

Looking really great Kevin. No big deal on the centerboard, I will be watching to see the future unfold.

Happy modeling.

Marty

[mikegerber]

Hello Kevin

 

I discovered just your log and I will surely following ...

... like your project

 

Regards

Mike

[michael mott]

You are doing a great job on the construction Kevin, very clean work.

 

 

I thought it was funny that the skipjack was suppose to be an easy and cheap boat to build and someone comes along and spends the extra money to build one plank on frame.

 

This raises the point that the boats made with the less durable woods were probably built for a particular working life time-frame whereas the one built with the more durable material might have been built more as a recreational boat versus a working boat. Just my thoughts on the reasoning for the differences.

 

Michael

[KevinR]

Mike, Welcome aboard!

 

Michael, I believe I read that the average life expectancy of a Skipjack was 20 years. Of course The actual life expectancy for each boat varied based on how well they were maintained. The Skipjack Kathryn was built for oyster dredging about 1901, and worked until ~2008. From the survey Kathryn appeared to have been in much better shape than EC Collier and to have had fewer stop-gap repairs.

• "KATHRYN is not typical of the skipjacks in her construction. Most skipjacks were cross-planked and built principally of pine. KATHRYN's bottom is plankd fore-and-aft, and most of her original structural members and her bottom planks are oak. This construction technique allowed the builders to round the chin much more than is found on cross-planked skipjacks. Kathryn is the only skipjack known to have fore-and-aft planking and a rounded chine." (Taken from the "Historic American Engineering Record" for the Two Sail Bateau "Skipjack" - Kathryn.)

I believe the Kathryn was built by someone who, just believed, that the boat should be built to last.

 

Thanks everyone for stopping by,

[KevinR]

Hi Everyone,

Well I spent the past 3 days planking the Ceiling Floor in the hold and the forward cabin. Next I think I am going to finish the deck beams and the forward cabin bulkhead and bunks. I need to stat planning for paining as well. I want to paint the interior before I glue the deck beams on. Ben Lankford in his book stated that the interior of the boats were painted grey. I would have thought the interior would have been white to reflect as much light as possible. I guess I will look for a light grey. I have not decided weather to paint the interior by brush or airbrush. When I have been around wooden boats the interior seems to have had a buildup of paint on all of the surfaces. I am planning on airbrushing the hull.

[jhearl]

If you haven't yet run across it, you would, I'm sure, be very interested in a book called "Chesapeake Sailing Craft" by Robert H. Burgess. While he covers more than just skipjacks, there are 37 pages on skipjacks with many excellent historic photos. Lots of good details there. The rest of the book is very good as well for anyone with an interest in the subject.

 

It has been quite a few years since I was last at the Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum in St. Micheals, MD, but they then had E. C. Collier on exhibit inside a building and you could walk along the hull and see inside. According to their website, the exhibit is still there.

http://www.cbmm.org/v_oystering.htm but it might be worth a call or email to be sure. If you've never been to that museum, I'd certainly encourage you to go - there is a lot to see. Nice weekend trip for you.

 

Back in 2006, I built a model of a crab scrape. The hull is very similar to a skipjack in construction. I have a few pictures here - http://modelboatyard.com/crab_scrape1.html - in case you're interested.

 

Cheers -

John

[KevinR]

John,

Thank you for stopping by and for the book recommendation. I have added the book to my Amazon wish list. I have been wanting to get over to St Micheals to visit the museum for a while now. Maybe the wife and I can get over there this summer for a weekend. Last April we went to the Fishermans Museum in Reedville VA. They have the Skipjack Claud W. Somer there.

I have been to your website many times now to check out your models. I was on your site last week looking at the crab scraping boat. You have built some amazing models. I found your Colonial Ferry project very interesting. A project like that must be very rewarding when completed.

[Omega1234]

Hi Kevin

 

One thing that really impresses me about your Skipjack is how clean and sharp your planking is. This, coupled with all the other visible construction details, makes your hull structurally beautiful. I hope I'm making sense, because the simplicity of the construction masks the skill taken for you to build it. To the novice, the hull is actually more complex than it initially appears.

 

Keep up the great work.

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

Edited January 25, 2015 by Omega1234

[KevinR]

Patrick,

Thank you for stopping by and for your kind works. This being my first scratch build I am happy with how the planking has turned out. But the pictures do not show everything, there are gaps at the edges and some of the planks did not lay as flat as they should. The plank thicknesses are not uniform, so I have had to soften the edges of some with a chisel blade or else they would be trip hazard.

 

I am also working at 1:24 scale, not the small scale you work at. Patrick, your planking on that scale is amazing. 1:24 scale has some advantages. I believe the gaps are not as obvious as they are in smaller scales. The drawback I am finding, is that a lot of the detail that can be omitted at the smaller scale, would be noticed if missing at 1:24 scale. When I started I figured I could get this done in about a year. I have been working on this for 7 months (I did take 2 months off over the summer, so say 5 months actual working). I think I will be doing good to have started the deck planking when 1 year rolls around.

 

I am trying to plan out long term, so I will not have to rush to get supplies when I need them. There are several items that will need to scratch built.

• Windlass
• Stove
• Coffee Pot ( You can't go to sea without Coffee)
• Winder (Dredging Winch)
• Dredge Rollers
• Oyster Dredge
• Dredge A-Frame
• Steering Mechanism
• 2 Lanterns
• Running Lights

I have been on the look out for Items that would be useful in building those parts. I believe my best find was some decorative gears at the local Michaels Craft Store. I have picked up 2 sizes of wooden barrels, fish hooks with straight shanks and some assorted brass.

Hopefully I can use some of the gears in the winder and the windlass.

[Omega1234]

Hi Kevin

 

I think you're may be being too hard on yourself!  The Skipjack is a working boat, whose hull would never have been perfect.  Most likely, the hull would've been full of imperfections, dings and scrapes.  At your scale, a few planks slightly thicker than the next would, in my opinion, mirror full sized reality.  Thus, in many respects, your hull has realism and character, just like the real thing.

 

Having saying that, I still find the structure of your hull beautiful and interesting.  I guess I always prefer to see the framework exposed rather than hiding the construction details with planks...but that's just me, hence why I like building my hulls with exposed frames and deck beams.

 

All the best with your boat.  Keep up the fabulous work!

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

[KevinR]

Patrick, I sometimes wish that I could show of the internal framing. I too like the way it looks. I like the way you do the cut-away on your models.

 

I left off a "8 hinges" from the list of items I need to make.

 

A last update before the end of the weekend. I made the deck beams that will support the forward cabin. It went pretty quick, I only had to remake a couple of the parts.

Edited January 26, 2015 by Kevin from Hampton Roads

[KevinR]

Came across these web sites today while surfing the web at lunch.

 

Skipjack Kathryn - 1901

http://coastalheritage.org/cha-east/restoring-skipjack-kathryn/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_%28skipjack%29

 

Skipjack Rebecca T. Ruark - 1886 (Oldest surviving skipjack)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_T._Ruark

 

Both of these are fore and aft planked. In the write up about both, it stated that the early skipjacks were fore and aft planked with soft (rounded) chins.

[Omega1234]

Patrick, I sometimes wish that I could show of the internal framing. I too like the way it looks. I like the way you do the cut-away on your models.

 

I left off a "8 hinges" from the list of items I need to make.

 

A last update before the end of the weekend. I made the deck beams that will support the forward cabin. It went pretty quick, I only had to remake a couple of the parts.

DSCF3022.jpg

DSCF3023.jpg

 

Hi Kevin

 

Just a thought... You could still leave part of the deck partially exposed in order to exhibit the beautiful work you've done on the internal structure. You could do the same with cockpit floor as well.

 

That way, you could have the best of both worlds.

 

Just a thought, as I said.

 

Cheers

 

A trick

[KevinR]

Patrick,

I like that idea. I would need to clean up a lot of glue. When I started, I was not worried about the glue in areas I thought no one would see. I am being a lot more careful now, even in areas that will be painted. I will give it some thought.

 

Thanks for the advice!

Edited January 30, 2015 by Kevin from Hampton Roads

[michael20]

 Hey Kevin,

   

I am looking forward to seeing the future gizmology  on your build. I hope you are coming to the next meeting.  Great job so far on your Skipjack.

 

    Happy Modeling,

     Marty G.

[KevinR]

Thanks Marty, I am looking forward to, and dreading, building all of those gizmos. Unless something comes up, I plan on being at the meeting.

 

Patrick, The part of the internals I would most like to show is the Foc's'el area. It shows the bottom planking, the wood chunks, the strongback with knees, the cabin decking and interior, stem liner with knee, the mast and  step and the sampson post and step. I plan on leaving the cabin hatch open so this would allow additional light for viewing from both angles. the more I think about your idea the more I like it. I will have to see if it can be done. The Foc's'el is a very crowded place.

[Omega1234]

That's sounds great, Kevin.  I guess you'll just need to make sure that you're happy with the end product ...

 

Also, that's a good idea about the cabin roof.  Perhaps, you may even consider leaving the roof totally or partially planked.  

 

Just some thoughts to play around with.

 

All the best!

 

Patrick

[KevinR]

I wasn't planning on posting tonight, but I discovered a problem.

I planned out the mast and sampson post placement.

Then I started on the blocking for the mast. It looked pretty good and I was kind of proud about what I had accomplished.

Then I looked at the boat from the front. Something was not right.

When I placed a straight edge between the stem and stern post they did not match up with the center between the sides. The mast blocks are not centered over the keelson. They are off by 3.5 scale inches.

I was real tempted to chuck it and start over. But I have been thinking it over and even though I am disgusted that I did not discover the error sooner. I have to much invested just to toss it.

I am thinking that I can re-align the mast blocking so that the mast is straight. Hopefully it will not be obvious the the mast is off center by 3 inches.

So, I am looking for feed back here. Has anyone else had to deal with this? And Is this salvageable?

 

The big question is, can I live with this?

Edited February 1, 2015 by Kevin from Hampton Roads