HMS Pegasus by Landlubber Mike - Amati/Victory Models - Scale 1:64

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks very much guys.  

 

Lou, thanks for the suggestion on bubinga - it looks like a very nice wood.  I'll have to add it to the wood stock pile on future builds.  For this build, I think I'll stick with pear and stain it a bit darker.  Your Harvey looks fantastic by the way - perfect representation of painting with wood, I love it!

 

Alistair - that's very helpful, thank you.  I think the NMM plans for the Pegasus at least had a slightly wider (fore to aft) fore hatch, which is why a bit of the plywood will end up showing through the hatch.  So, at a minimum, I might need to open up the fore hatch hole in the plywood template.  I'll work on getting better resolution pictures.  i was using my iPhone, but I have a point and shoot camera with macro capabilities that might do a better job.  

 

B.E. - gorgeous hatch and railings.  Thanks for posting the picture - did you add the ledging on the side where the top of the ladder ends up?  I was wondering if there would have been ledging on that side as it might have made going down the ladder a little tricky.

 

Here's another question - do the ladders run down from port to starboard, or from starboard to port, in the companionways?  Does it matter?  I would think that all the ladders in companionways have the same orientation, but I haven't been able to find a definitive source that specifies the orientation.

 

Thank you all again!

[Blue Ensign]

Thanks Mike, there is ledging on the ladder top side but it's quite narrow and the ladder top is notched to fit over it, it doesn't create any problems.

 

I had the same indecision about ladder orientation, but having spent an inordinate amount of fruitless searching thro' my not inconsiderate library of books on the subject, I decided there was no specific Georgian specification   and I opted for the ladder top on the Starboard side as with the Quarterdeck Ladderway.

 

On multi-deck ships such as Victory the 'tween deck companionway ladders run both Port and Starboard and indeed fore and aft, so I doubt there is a hard and fast rule.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks B.E., that's very helpful!  I looked through all my books as well and couldn't find anything on ladder orientation either.  I'll flip a coin

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi folks, I've made a little progress over the past few days.  I feel like I spend 90% of my time researching, double checking accuracy of the kit parts against TFFM and the NMM plans, figuring out methods, etc., and only 10% building.  I'm getting more comfortable using my table saw and other tools though, so I should be able to move a little faster.

 

I finished the coamings for the hatches (still need to thin them down, round the corners, add camber and sand them down and fill in gaps), and also roughed out the main mast partners and capstan step.  I don't think I'm going to add the fore mast and mizzen mast partners, as both won't be seen.  Some of the other Swan class builders are putting in some real nice details under the forecastle and quarterdeck, but i think I'm going to focus on the visible details.

 

I've added more planks around the fore hatch, including the first row of binding strakes.  Jeff's maple has been really nice to work with.  I'm glad I decided to go with upgraded wood over the kit's tanganyika.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So far the planking is turning out well.  I have a slight issue in that in front of the fore hatch, the space for the second plank from the king plank on the port side is slightly narrower than that on the starboard side.  It's probably not even a difference of 0.5mm, though the macro pictures seem to suggest it's considerably bigger.  I might try filing back the first plank off the king plank so that the widths are more comparable, but it's a long plank and I worry about maintaining a straight line.  So, I'm going to think about it a little more.

 

Here is a close-up of the main mast area:

 

 

 

I put together the main mast partners - the aft side needs to be shortened a bit, as I plan on moving the after hatch slightly forward so that the main jeer bit pins are located in the fore corners of the hatch (roughly in the position shown in the picture above).  They, as well as the capstan step, needed to be thinned down so that they are shorter in height than the hatch coamings.  From a technical standpoint, the head ledges of the hatches should have cut outs to fit around the partners.  I decided to just butt them against the hatches, as I'm not sure that detail will be easily seen once the pumps, main mast, etc. are installed.  Overall, I'm wondering if the main mast partners were worth the effort, as I believe they end up getting covered up by the wedges securing the main mast.  But, they were fun to make.

 

I've also been doing a little research on the fore jeer bitts.  The kit has the pins extend through the forecastle and into the upper deck.  According to the TFFM (and I believe the NMM plans), the pins were bolted to the forecastle deck beams instead.  B.E. picked up on this on his Pegasus build, and I might take a similar approach.  

 

Back to the shipyard I go

 

[riverboat]

the planking looks real nice up against the hatch ......... nice! work Mike.

Frank

[jwvolz]

Looks real nice Mike. Maple is real nice to work with. 

[aliluke]

Looking good Mike - very crisp and clean. That maple is a nice colour but has a much more pronounced grain than the holly I used.

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks very much guys. 

 

Alistair, you're right that it does have more pronounced grain compared to Jeff's holly (I have some sheets of holly as well).  Since I'm not going for a painted look but rather a natural wood look using oil finishes and stains in some cases, I thought maple would work out better than holly.  After seeing Toni's Atalanta build, I might use holly to represent the white stuff for the lower hull planking on my Lyme.

[Blue Ensign]

That's a great start on the planking Mike, looking forward to seeing your progress.

 

B.E.

[shihawk]

Just read quickly through your log ., great build and very informative log . I also used Maple for my Vic decking but not of the same quality as yours ,lesson learned ,.big variation in color .fortunately it was a lower deck and i will be more picy on my main deck . Forgive me  if i missed it but what is your caulking method ?? as it looks very impressive, as does all your build

 

tks Boyd  

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks BE and Boyd

 

Boyd, I'm using pencil on one plank of the two for the caulking.  I used the same approach on my Badger to pretty good effect (at least I thought so), and it's fairly easy to do with no issues of bleeding colors, etc.  I think it looks even better on the maple given that it is lighter and not splintery like the tanganyika in the Badger kit.  Others use permanent magic markers or archival ink, and some even use tissue paper for a very nice result.  I just like the more subdued, lighter tones of using pencil - plus, it's very easy to touch up if necessary once the planks have been laid.

 

Last night I managed to resolve the issue of the second planks on opposite sides of the king plank being of different widths.  I used a sanding block and slowly sanded the planks on either side a bit, and now the widths are equal - it ended up being much easier than I thought it would.  It was one of those things that I knew would annoy me down the road, so I'm glad I took the chance on resolving the issue.  

 

I also started working on the riding bitts.  Out of redheart, I cut square stock for the bitts, opened up the holes in the upper deck to accommodate the bitts, and cut out and shaped the standards.  I need to figure out how to best cut out the notch for the cross piece and shape the tops of the bitts.  I think I might try using the Byrnes table saw (or better yet, maybe my mill, which I have yet to try out) to make an even notch cut across both bitts - usually I do things like this by hand, but I think I can get cleaner lines using power tools.  I also need to think about what details to add - for example, for the cross piece, do I want to use different woods for the main timber and elm face piece?  Also, there is a variety of hardware like eyebolts and hooks, etc. that were found on the riding bitts but not typically shown in the simplified kit versions.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[Martin W]

Hi Mike -- Terrific update!  I must say that I like the taper you put on those planks leading into the hatches, it's a really nice touch.  And your mast partners are also handsome.  Who cares that they might get obscured, they could also provide an intriguing detail for the discerning (and admiring) eye.

 

An interesting possibility of using your mill to shape the bitts.  I'll paying attention, since I, too, have a mill that I have not really figured out.  It seemed like just the thing to raise my capacity to a new (ahem) level, but so far I've mostly managed to destroy otherwise nice pieces of wood.  Oh, those clamps!

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Martin.  I'm using the planking pattern from TFFM vol. 2 - I agree that the taper into the fore hatch is a really nice look.  TFFM also has three rows of anchor stock planking up against the margin plank.  I'm a bit nervous about how that will come out, but if it works out, I think it's another nice touch.  Of course, once I add the cannons, small boats, etc., all this detail will be largely covered up     Aside from the planking pattern being interesting from the standpoint of having different shaped planks, another benefit is that the planks are slightly wider, leading to fewer rows than if you go with the kit's deck planking widths (I think the kit assumes a 3mm standard plank width, whereas if I remember correctly, my king plank is 6mm and the other planks I've laid so far are around 5mm or so in width). 

 

I'll let you know about using the mill and/or table saw.  Other people on here like BE make it look very easy  I think the key is in the set up - once you've set things up, the actual milling work is probably fairly easy.  I plan on doing a few test runs on plywood, etc. to practice and get used to the mill before attempting to butcher Jeff's nice wood 

[Martin W]

Mike -- I had wanted to try following the pattern from FFM as well, liking the look of those anchor planks.  But as you indicate, they have to be slightly larger than the standard width, and when I ordered the holly for my deck planking, I neglected to take that into account.  I'm wondering now, looking into the hazy future when I have a quarterdeck & forecastle to plank, if I should order some wider stock, even though it's liable not to match. 

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

You might not need wider stock for the quarterdeck and forecastle planking.  I believe the TFFM plans were largely straight/slightly tapered planks, but I forget if they had scarph hooks and the like.

[mtaylor]

Nice work on the Pegasus decking and coamings, Mike.  I like the way you handled the decking around the coamings also.

[scott larkins]

That's starting out nice.  Never seen anyone angle to deck wood like that before.  Very interesting.  Was that by the plans, historical, or just something you decided to try?

[Landlubber Mike]

Hey Scott,

 

This planking pattern was in TFFM vol. 2 as an example of what a Swan class upper deck could look like.  Hatches don't actually sit on the deck planking, but sit on the beams and the deck planks butt against the hatches,  So, in this case where the fore hatch is narrower athwartships than the main hatch and other hatches, it seems reasonable that the planking runs would come out this way (rather than have a very skinny plank run alongside the fore hatch).

 

I think kits just simplify things in having uniform, straight deck planks, where the hatches are seated on top of the deck planking.  Nothing wrong with that approach of course.  I thought I'd challenge myself in being a little more historically accurate and use different sized/shaped planks.  We'll see if it works out in the end - these planks have been relatively easy.  Eventually I'll have to start cutting tapered planks and anchor stock planks.

[Landlubber Mike]

I've made a little more progress the past few days.  I've extended the binding strake back to the aft hatch, worked on the aft hatch, and started working on the riding bitts, main topsail sheet bitts and main jeer bitts.  So far the planking (the little of it there is thus far) is going nicely, with no drift.  Having the planks butt up against the hatches really makes for a nice clean look.  My approach was to first lay the planking, and then sand back the hatches until they fit between the planking rows.

 

 

 

 

This middle section of the upper deck is very tricky.  I'm using the NMM plans and TFFM for size and location of the hatches, etc. -- all of which of course complicates things down the road.  The Pegasus kit is very close to being in accordance with the plans, but there are some simplifications that the kit took as to the location of the main and aft hatches, and the location and size of the main topsail sheet bitts and main bitts.  You can see in the picture below that I've moved the main hatch slightly forward, and the aft hatch further forward so that the main jeer bits pins are located in the fore corners of the hatch.  Moving the aft hatch forward has the added benefit of making it clear of the ladder coming down from the quarterdeck.

 

 

 

The aft hatch was pretty easy to prepare.  I removed some of the grating, and using needle files, slowly filed back the hatch coamings to fit the main jeer bitts pins.  It still needs some finishing work, rounded corners and camber, etc.

 

 

 

The next bit (pun intended) took some planning.  The pins for the main topsail sheet bitts and main jeer bitts are slightly over scale.  The kit simplifies things by using 5mm stock, when by my calculations, they should be 4.5mm and 3.75mm for the main topsail sheet bitts and main jeer bitts, respectively (the riding bitt pins at 5mm are fine).  So, these were cut out to these sizes.

 

The really nice thing about the kit is that the pins are inserted through the upper deck holes, and the bottoms of the pins, which are slotted, sit into cut-outs on the lower deck template - this help ensures alignment of the pins and is a very, very nice feature.  The fit is perfect as with everything on the kit.  With the modified main jeer bitt pins though, I was working with 3.75mm stock and so there was a lot of play in the slots.  So, I went ahead and added a 5mm piece to the back of the pins, off-center so that the pins would be pushed forward and athwartships.

 

 

 

 

 

This all worked great, until I realized that the notches I had started cutting for the cross piece were on the wrong side - they should go aft     I should have known better, but I just wasn't thinking.  Also, for some reason, the cross piece sat a little lower than it should.  Of course I realized all this at 1am, and rather than go to bed annoyed at myself (which is usually the best approach), I decided to fix things.  

 

So, I sanded off the 5mm piece, added a new one to the other side, and also built up the bottom a bit so that cross piece should fit closer to where it needs to go (no pictures of this embarrassing process).  All in all, this seems to have worked.  I need to refine the height for the final location of the cross piece, as well as the overall height, as the tops sit under the quarterdeck beam.  But, so far so good I think.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[Landlubber Mike]

***Note on the main jeer bitts***

 

So I went back to the kit plans, and the kit has you install the cross piece for the main jeer bitts on the fore side of the bitts (the kit refers to it as the "rear main mast bitts").  I doublechecked the NMM plans and TFFM, and the cross piece is on the aft side.  I'm not crazy after all, but that will teach me to work on my build when I should be in bed   

 

Aside from possible historical accuracy, I think a more practical reason to put the cross piece on the aft side is to free up a little space in an otherwise crowded area around the main mast.  In particular, a few members on here have noted the very cramped fit for the cisterns, which are between the main mast and the aft hatch/main jeer bitts.  So, moving the cross piece to the aft side has the added benefit of freeing up a little more space in that area.

[Martin W]

Great work, Mike.  That redheart looks stunning, and the cutting you've done on has ended up with sharp, clean lines. 

 

I'm impressed that you can work so late -- if I tried working on a build past 8 I'd never sleep.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Martin.  The redheart is beautiful, isn't it?  I think it will be a nice touch to the build.  I'm looking forward to seeing how it looks after treatment with tung oil or wipe-on poly.  It should look nice against the eventually stained pear and the maple deck.  I'm not sure if I'm going to stain the deck or stick with the light golden brown finish from tung oil.  

 

I have three kids under the age of 5 - the only time I have for modeling is late evening, that is, if I don't fall asleep on the couch after the oldest goes to bed 

Edited November 11, 2014 by Landlubber Mike

[aliluke]

Looking good Mike. Sounds like I got my jeer bitts around the wrong way. Too late now.

 

I'd be seriously cautious about staining the deck. Get it slightly uneven and you'd have to start all over again. Definitely not a place I'd go.

[Blue Ensign]

Hi Mike, all looking good.

 

I gave some thought about the Jeer bitts but went with the cross piece on the forward side which as you say is a tight fit behind the pump casings.

 

On the rigging plan in Volume 1V of the ffm it is shown on the fore side, even tho' within the body of the book it is indicated on the aft side.

 

From a practical point of view on the Pegasus kit the fore side is better as on the aft side the jeer belay would foul the QD breast beam, and with the kit set up the cross piece would over hang the hatch ledge which is immediately behind it, well on my Pegasus it would.

 

Once all the fittings are in place it is very difficult to see much detail of the cross piece so its location from a visual point of view has little relevance.

 

A potential problem are the Main Jeer tackle falls. They should of course belay at the jeer bitts which support the Quarterdeck and sit right behind the pump cisterns which impede access thro'  the bitt sheaves for the jeer falls. (I added sheaves to the bitt uprights)

 

In an attempt to pre-empt future problems I passed two loops of cotton  thro’ the jeer bitt sheaves, and I hope to attach the falls to these and pull them thro’ at the appropriate time. even so getting a decent belay will prove difficult, and until the jeers are rigged I don't know for certain whether the falls will have a fair run.

 

The kit plans appear to show the jeers belayed at the Topsail sheet Bitts, a simplification which gets around the tricky problem of jeer belay.

 

Cheers,

 

B.E.

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi guys, this is great information, thanks.  BE, I should have taken a look at TFFM IV to see how the rigging lines would run.  Hopefully keeping the cross piece aft of the pins will work on my modified pins, as the cross piece will sit forward a bit more than had I went with the kit's 5mm pins.  My pins are around 3.75mm, so the cross piece will be 1.25mm or so forward.  Some more research that I'll need to do tonight I suppose

 

Couple of my questions for my fellow Swan class builders:

 

1.  It sounds like I should start thinking about rigging line, especially if I need to pre-rig some of these areas that will be hard to reach in the future.  For those building from the Amati kits, is the Amati line nice to work with?  Since I'm already upgrading a lot of the kit, I might just go with Chuck's line - but thought I'd check with others on their experience with the kit line.

 

2.  What is the best way to create the decorative features (for lack of a better term) on the bitt pins and cross pieces?  I've been thinking about what technique to use, whether by hand or to try out my mill.  Being new to mills, it seems a little bit of a complicated shape to try and mill out by machine, but maybe with a little practice I can do a decent job.  I just worry about getting straight lines by hand, which has always been an issue for me - a reason why Jim's disc sander and table saw have been a godsend for me.

 

Thanks in advance!

[aliluke]

Hi Mike

1/- I'm using Morope mainly because I have a lot left over from my AVS build (a major mis-calulation!). I haven't even looked at the Amati line but you can be sure Chuck's will be far superior.

 

2/- Remaking all the bitts by hand is pretty easy. I just use a knife, sandpaper and files. I don't have a mill though so can't the compare the speed but I'm perfectly happy with my "by hand" accuracy.

[riverboat]

Mike ,I agree with  Alistair, I've used the Amati rope and it isn't terribly bad ,but I think you'd be a lot happier using Chuck's rope. since you're upgrading quite a bit, might as well go for the rope too. I think I'm going to try his too when I get to that stage .

Frank

[Martin W]

Mike -- I have gotten the rigging for my 2 rigged builds from Keith Jewell in the UK (Isle of Man, I believe); his company is called Modelling Timbers.  What I like is that his line is high quality Egyptian Cotton, very nice to work with, easily dyable, and it holds knots.  And Keith is a good guy (or decent cove, as I believe one would say in Manx). Here's the link:

 

modellingtimbers.co.uk/4.html

 

On the other hand, I saw Chuck do a demonstration of making rope at the NRG Conference last month, using nothing more than the inexpensive rope walk from Model Expo (I believe it runs about $30 -- I bought one some years ago, and used it to make thicker rope from my cotton thread).  In his charming way, Chuck insisted that we should all be making our own rope because it's so easy.  And the rope he makes is quite nice, indeed.  If he takes over the wood milling for the world of modelling, he might want out of the rope walking.

 

And here's the Maestro himself:

 

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

Edited November 13, 2014 by Martin W

[mtaylor]

Mike,

 

I've used the Amati quite a bit as well as the Billings.  The AL is pure crap.  The old Billings was nice but the newer stuff leaves a lot to be desired.   So.. while the Amati is nice (and it varies depending on the day it seems) it's also a bit kinked due to the way it comes wrapped on the cards.  Chuck's is best I've ever seen.  I've not seen the Morope but heard many things good and some bad.  The price and fact it unravels made me not want to use it.  ChuckRope really is excellent rope and I'll be using it.   Now to figure out how much I'll need... 

[Landlubber Mike]

It's been a while, but I've made a little progress (work and kids are taking a lot of my time these days).  I've managed to get some additional planks down, and have been adding final touches to the hatches and capstan step.  Also have been slowly tweaking the main jeer bitts and riding bitts.  Things are coming along pretty nicely I think.  Here are some pictures - nothing aside from planks has been glued down to the deck yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I started rounding the corners of the hatches.  With the planks butting up against the hatches, the hatches are square at and below the level of the deck planking, and have rounded corners above the deck planking.  So, here is my incredibly complex jig that I came up with to round the corners.  Essentially, all it amounted to is adding two pieces of planking material at 90 degrees to each other, dropping the hatch into the corner, and using a sanding block to round the corner.  I still need to sand camber into the tops, which will come next.

 

 

 

 

On the deck planking in general, my plan was to add curved planks as in the TFFM model planking pattern.  I'm not sure my skill level is up to the task, so I nixed that idea and thought I would take a short cut by using angled planks under the forecastle and quarterdeck.  But in thinking a little bit more about it, different rows of planks in the TFFM pattern start to curve at different points along the deck.  I started thinking that if I had them all become angled at the same point, then the deck would have an odd look to it.  So, I've decided to use straight planks instead, but will use the TFFM pattern for locations of ends of planks, the anchor stock planking, etc.  

 

I still need to gear up the courage to work  on the decorative details of the bitts, and figure out whether I want to use stains on the hatch coamings and upper hull planking.  I go back and forth, but I think the hatch coamings at the least will need to be made darker in some fashion.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Landlubber Mike