amateur Posted January 26, 2014 #151 Posted January 26, 2014 Another remark with respect to Dik: Dik did his research in the late seventies (he published his material from 1983 onwards). His main objective was a model that looked authentic. He used the Zweidecker as one of his main reference points. So concluding that Dik and Winter do give the same information is kind of circular reasoning.... Otte Blom was slightly more critical with respect to his sources, although he tends to draw too much detail in his drawings. (Some people say that he is suggesting too much certainty.) In the end, his main body of reference is the same as that of Dik and other amateur-researchers: Winter and the drawings of Van der Velde) I know that Ab doesn't beleive in this raised part between the 'schaarstookken, and therefore has no need to have an additional opart of wood fixed on top of the deck beams. Dik based his drawing clearly on pic 17 in Winter: there is the same construction shown: the schaarstooken are slightly raised ovr the deck beams, and in between the beams are raised to the level of the schaarstokken, in order to accomodate the gratings. I don't know what the real ship should look (after all the ship in Winter is only a model) Does Wasa give any info? Jan Quote
Drazen Posted January 26, 2014 Author #152 Posted January 26, 2014 Jan, I attached some fotos of Vasa. Seems slightly different construction than Winter's. Piet, Elmer Cornish, avsjerome2003 and 1 other 4 Quote There are no boundaries... … besides those we set for ourselves.
Drazen Posted January 26, 2014 Author #153 Posted January 26, 2014 Today, I was working on gratings... and gluing them with CA-glue from the bottom side Drazen avsjerome2003, Elmer Cornish, mtaylor and 3 others 6 Quote There are no boundaries... … besides those we set for ourselves.
amateur Posted January 27, 2014 #154 Posted January 27, 2014 Different from Winter, but still, also in Wasa, there is this raised plank fixed on top of the deck beam between the gratings. Jan Quote
Drazen Posted January 27, 2014 Author #155 Posted January 27, 2014 Jan, On one photo (2nd - is it on the lower deck?) there is an additional part, but not raised. I know we are again touching the topic: „What was or could be, but we do not have any exact 100% documentation on the 7P”. Still, if you look at my deck which I am going to finish soon, you can see the part between gratings which looks similar to the Dik’s solution. I decided for it since it makes sense to have a smooth surface in such a ship which needs high functionality and any obstacle could mean a certain hurdle in a battle. I will attach this part holding the gratings onto the beam on the same way as the Vasa had – with two bolts on each end and two in the middle – in total 6 bolts. The gratings itself seem to be nailed/bolted too (logically) but according to the Vasa – with very thin bolts on each joint and positioned diagonally (also logical). Winter’s model shows one strong bolt, but i believe this was a compromise of the model. Let’s see how small I can go with my “with-needle-made-bolts”. Till now, I managed 0.4mm without bigger problems - will probably need 0.3mm or so. Drazen Quote There are no boundaries... … besides those we set for ourselves.
mtaylor Posted January 28, 2014 #156 Posted January 28, 2014 Drazen, I would think that coamings around all the gratings would be commonplace. Otherwise, in heavy seas that water will want to go through the gratings into the ship. Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
amateur Posted January 28, 2014 #157 Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Hi Mark, And still...on the existing models and illustrations of Dutch ships of war, there are no coamings on the gundecks. Jan Edited January 28, 2014 by amateur mtaylor and FrankWouts 2 Quote
chris watton Posted January 28, 2014 #158 Posted January 28, 2014 Fantastic model, and fantastic attention to detail. Threads like this are an inspiration to us all, I think. Well done! FrankWouts 1 Quote Vanguard Models on Facebook
Drazen Posted January 28, 2014 Author #159 Posted January 28, 2014 Yes, the Dutch ships seem to have some specialities - I have a feeling. My friend Mile Bijelić (who won gold on World champinship twice and knows a lot about english vessels) and me are often struggling if/when starting from the english way of building ships. The first I needed to learn with Dutch ships is – other rules and in my eyes – some good sense for simplicity and practical solutions for that time. Dražen Quote There are no boundaries... … besides those we set for ourselves.
amateur Posted January 28, 2014 #160 Posted January 28, 2014 Other rules, or perhaps: no rules..... (which somtetimes boils down to 'anything goes' as long as it is practical and technically sound....) Jan FrankWouts 1 Quote
mtaylor Posted January 28, 2014 #161 Posted January 28, 2014 Hi Mark, And still...on the existing models and illustrations of Dutch ships of war, there are no coamings on the gundecks. Jan Thanks Jan. I'm learning something new everyday. Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)
Drazen Posted January 29, 2014 Author #162 Posted January 29, 2014 Here are two cross sections: one by Otte Blom and one from my plan front part of the ship where you can see the area around the gratings. Drazen Mirabell61, Archi, avsjerome2003 and 1 other 4 Quote There are no boundaries... … besides those we set for ourselves.
amateur Posted January 29, 2014 #163 Posted January 29, 2014 Hi Drazen, On a Dutch forum, Ab told us once that the danger of the drawings of Otte Blom is that he is giving such wonderful detail, that you tend to forget that there are many things we actually don't know for sure.... Jan Quote
Drazen Posted February 1, 2014 Author #164 Posted February 1, 2014 ... gratings been grinded. It looks boring at the moment, but will get some depth after applying slight bating/mordant and after the nails are on/in. Dražen hexnut, sonicmcdude, Archi and 16 others 18 1 Quote There are no boundaries... … besides those we set for ourselves.
NenadM Posted February 1, 2014 #165 Posted February 1, 2014 Patiente fight booring. 2:1 in first halftime ! Quote In progress: CUTTY SARK - Tehnodidakta => scratch => Campbell plans http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-1#entry64653 Content of log : http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-62#entry217381 Past build: Stella, Heller kit, plastic, Santa Maria, Tehnodidakta kit, wood, Jolly Roger Heller kit, plastic
amateur Posted February 1, 2014 #166 Posted February 1, 2014 I don't see anything boring. I see a good-lookind deck Jan Quote
NMBROOK Posted February 1, 2014 #167 Posted February 1, 2014 I would just like to say what an amazing build Drazen!!This is fabulous work Kind Regards Nigel P.S.Your friend Mile needs no introduction,his model of Prince is exceptional Quote Currently working on Royal Caroline
Drazen Posted February 27, 2014 Author #168 Posted February 27, 2014 I made scuppers again with a template in order to get them absolutely the same. Dražen mtaylor and Elmer Cornish 2 Quote There are no boundaries... … besides those we set for ourselves.
Drazen Posted February 27, 2014 Author #169 Posted February 27, 2014 Here is how the whole construction has been made. These are made of seven separated parts each. Dražen mtaylor, harvey1847, PeteB and 3 others 6 Quote There are no boundaries... … besides those we set for ourselves.
Drazen Posted February 27, 2014 Author #170 Posted February 27, 2014 And today, I glued them in place. (Not 7, but 8 parts. There is a black paper behind to simulate the dark hole.) Dražen Elmer Cornish, mtaylor, PeteB and 12 others 15 Quote There are no boundaries... … besides those we set for ourselves.
NMBROOK Posted February 27, 2014 #171 Posted February 27, 2014 Phenomenal attention to detail Drazen!!!!!Absolutely incredible work. Kind Regards Nigel Quote Currently working on Royal Caroline
michael mott Posted February 28, 2014 #172 Posted February 28, 2014 Superb workmanship Drazen! the gratings are also beautifully fitted. Michael Quote Current builds Bristol Pilot Cutter 1:8; Skipjack 19 foot Launch 1:8; Herreshoff Buzzards Bay 14 1:8 Other projects Pilot Cutter 1:500 ; Maria, 1:2 Now just a memory Future model Gill Smith Catboat Pauline 1:8 Finished projects A Bassett Lowke steamship Albertic 1:100 Anything you can imagine is possible, when you put your mind to it.
Drazen Posted March 9, 2014 Author #173 Posted March 9, 2014 Does anybody have a photo/drawing/shetch of the construction of the partner under the capstan on the upper deck on Vasa? Cannot see clearly from my photos how this has been done. There are just different ways how to do it... Dražen Elmer Cornish, flying_dutchman2, Archi and 4 others 7 Quote There are no boundaries... … besides those we set for ourselves.
Mirabell61 Posted March 9, 2014 #174 Posted March 9, 2014 ... gratings been grinded. It looks boring at the moment, but will get some depth after applying slight bating/mordant and after the nails are on/in. Dražen Spitzenklasse Drazen, I love your work on this great model, a delight to watch her grow... Nils Quote Current builds -Lightship Elbe 1 Completed - Steamship Ergenstrasse ex Laker Corsicana 1918- scale 1:87 scratchbuild - "Zeesboot" heritage wooden fishing small craft around 1870, POB clinker scratch build scale 1:24 - Pilot Schooner # 5 ELBE ex Wanderbird, scale 1:50 scratchbuild - Mississippi Sterwheelsteamer built as christmapresent for grandson modified kit build - Chebec "Eagle of Algier" 1753--scale 1:48-POB-(scratchbuild) "SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse" four stacker passenger liner of 1897, blue ribbond awarded, 1:144 (scratchbuild) "HMS Pegasus" , 16 gun sloop, Swan-Class 1776-1777 scale 1:64 from Amati plan -"Pamir" 4-mast barque, P-liner, 1:96 (scratchbuild) -"Gorch Fock 2" German Navy cadet training 3-mast barque, 1:95 (scratchbuild) "Heinrich Kayser" heritage Merchant Steamship, 1:96 (scratchbuild) original was my grandfathers ship -"Bohuslän" , heritage ,live Swedish museum passenger steamer (Billings kit), 1:50 "Lorbas", river tug, steam driven for RC, fictive design (scratchbuild), scale appr. 1:32 under restoration / restoration finished "Hjejlen" steam paddlewheeler, 1861, Billings Boats rare old kit, scale 1:50
NenadM Posted March 9, 2014 #175 Posted March 9, 2014 Just as Nils said ... I like to watch how She grows Quote In progress: CUTTY SARK - Tehnodidakta => scratch => Campbell plans http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-1#entry64653 Content of log : http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2501-cutty-sark-by-nenad-tehnodidakta-scratched-campbells-plans/page-62#entry217381 Past build: Stella, Heller kit, plastic, Santa Maria, Tehnodidakta kit, wood, Jolly Roger Heller kit, plastic
amateur Posted March 10, 2014 #176 Posted March 10, 2014 Hi Drazen, What part exactly is it you need a picture of? Jan Quote
Drazen Posted March 10, 2014 Author #177 Posted March 10, 2014 Jan, I need/mean the stronger "floor" capstan is set on. You see it on my 2nd Vasa picture, but I do not see how it has been done and how it has been connected to the beams and how the deck planks have been fixed (to it?). The Artitec model, on the first picture seems to have capstan on the deck planking what seems to me not really a strong enough construction. There, the deck plankings are set in the cross direction. Dražen Quote There are no boundaries... … besides those we set for ourselves.
amazone Posted March 10, 2014 #178 Posted March 10, 2014 capstan stands in e visser. same as the mast iht is e dikker plank than the normal dakplanking and go from one scheerstrook to the odder scheerstrook. Quote
Drazen Posted March 10, 2014 Author #179 Posted March 10, 2014 So, you say: like the solution by Artitec as on the 1st photo? Funny, the Vasa has the visser in the length direction bolted to the beams (as on the 2nd photo). Seems, both solutions are OK? Dražen Quote There are no boundaries... … besides those we set for ourselves.
amazone Posted March 10, 2014 #180 Posted March 10, 2014 yes i ges both solutions are OK from schaarstok to schaarstok are from beam to beam . Quote
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