De Zeven Provinciën 1665 by Dražen - Scale 1:45

[amateur]

Another remark with respect to Dik:

Dik did his research in the late seventies (he published his material from 1983 onwards).

His main objective was a model that looked authentic.

 

He used the Zweidecker as one of his main reference points. So concluding that Dik and Winter do give the same information is kind of circular  reasoning....

 

Otte Blom was slightly more critical with respect to his sources, although he tends to draw too much detail in his drawings. (Some people say that he is suggesting too much certainty.) In the end, his main body of reference is the same as that of Dik and other amateur-researchers: Winter and the drawings of Van der Velde)

 

 

I know that Ab doesn't beleive in this raised part between the 'schaarstookken, and therefore has no need to have an additional opart of wood fixed on top of the deck beams. Dik based his drawing clearly on pic 17 in Winter: there is the same construction shown: the schaarstooken are slightly raised ovr the deck beams, and in between the beams are raised to the level of the schaarstokken, in order to accomodate the gratings.

I don't know what the real ship should look (after all the ship in Winter is only a model)

Does Wasa give any info?

 

Jan

[Drazen]

Jan,

 

I attached some fotos of Vasa. Seems slightly different construction than Winter's.

[Drazen]

Today, I was working on gratings...

and gluing them with CA-glue from the bottom side

 

Drazen

[amateur]

Different from Winter, but still, also in Wasa, there is this raised plank fixed on top of the deck beam between the gratings.

 

Jan

[Drazen]

Jan,

 

On one photo (2^nd - is it on the lower deck?) there is an additional part, but not raised.

 

I know we are again touching the topic: „What was or could be, but we do not have any exact 100% documentation on the 7P”.

 

Still, if you look at my deck which I am going to finish soon, you can see the part between gratings which looks similar to the Dik’s solution. I decided for it since it makes sense to have a smooth surface in such a ship which needs high functionality and any obstacle could mean a certain hurdle in a battle.

 

I will attach this part holding the gratings onto the beam on the same way as the Vasa had – with two bolts on each end and two in the middle – in total 6 bolts. The gratings itself seem to be nailed/bolted too (logically) but according to the Vasa – with very thin bolts on each joint and positioned diagonally (also logical). Winter’s model shows one strong bolt, but i believe this was a compromise of the model. Let’s see how small I can go with my “with-needle-made-bolts”. Till now, I managed 0.4mm without bigger problems - will probably need 0.3mm or so.

 

Drazen

[mtaylor]

Drazen,

 

I would think that coamings around all the gratings would be commonplace.  Otherwise, in heavy seas that water will want to go through the gratings into the ship.  

[amateur]

Hi Mark,

 

And still...on the existing models and illustrations of Dutch ships of war, there are no coamings on the gundecks.

 

 

 

Jan

Edited January 28, 2014 by amateur

[chris watton]

Fantastic model, and fantastic attention to detail.

 

Threads like this are an inspiration to us all, I think.

 

Well done!

[Drazen]

Yes, the Dutch ships seem to have some specialities - I have a feeling.

My friend Mile Bijelić (who won gold on World champinship twice and knows a lot about english vessels) and me are often struggling if/when starting from the english way of building ships. The first I needed to learn with Dutch ships is – other rules and in my eyes – some good sense for simplicity and practical solutions for that time.

 

Dražen

[amateur]

Other rules, or perhaps: no rules.....

(which somtetimes boils down to 'anything goes' as long as it is practical and technically sound....)

Jan

[mtaylor]

Hi Mark,

 

And still...on the existing models and illustrations of Dutch ships of war, there are no coamings on the gundecks.

 

 

 

Jan

 

Thanks Jan.  I'm learning something new everyday. 

[Drazen]

Here are two cross sections: one by Otte Blom and one from my plan front part of the ship where you can see the area around the gratings.

 

Drazen

 

[amateur]

Hi Drazen,

 

On a Dutch forum, Ab told us once that the danger of the drawings of Otte Blom is that he is giving such wonderful detail, that you tend to forget that there are many things we actually don't know for sure....

 

Jan

[Drazen]

... gratings been grinded.

 

It looks boring at the moment, but will get some depth after applying slight bating/mordant and after the nails are on/in.

 

Dražen

[NenadM]

Patiente fight booring. 2:1 in first halftime !

[amateur]

I don't see anything boring.

I see a good-lookind deck

 

Jan

[NMBROOK]

I would just like to say what an amazing build Drazen!!This is fabulous work

 

Kind Regards Nigel

 

P.S.Your friend Mile needs no introduction,his model of Prince is exceptional

[Drazen]

I made scuppers again with a template in order to get them absolutely the same.

 

Dražen

 

[Drazen]

Here is how the whole construction has been made. These are made of seven separated parts each.

 

Dražen

 

[Drazen]

And today, I glued them in place.

 

(Not 7, but 8 parts. There is a black paper behind to simulate the dark hole.)

 

Dražen

[NMBROOK]

Phenomenal attention to detail Drazen!!!!!Absolutely incredible work.

 

Kind Regards Nigel

[michael mott]

Superb workmanship Drazen! the gratings are also beautifully fitted.

 

Michael

[Drazen]

Does anybody have a photo/drawing/shetch of the construction of the partner under the capstan on the upper deck on Vasa?

Cannot see clearly from my photos how this has been done.

 

There are just different ways how to do it...

 

Dražen

 

[Mirabell61]

... gratings been grinded.

 

It looks boring at the moment, but will get some depth after applying slight bating/mordant and after the nails are on/in.

 

Dražen

Spitzenklasse Drazen,

 

I love your work on this great model, a delight to watch her grow...

 

Nils

[NenadM]

Just as Nils said ... I like to watch how She grows

[amateur]

Hi Drazen,

 

What part exactly is it you need a picture of?

 

Jan

[Drazen]

Jan,  I need/mean the stronger "floor" capstan is set on. You see it on my 2^nd Vasa picture, but I do not see how it has been done and how it has been connected to the beams and how the deck planks have been fixed (to it?).

The Artitec model, on the first picture seems to have capstan on the deck planking what seems to me not really a strong enough construction. There, the deck plankings are set in the cross direction.

 

Dražen

[amazone]

capstan  stands in e visser.  same as the mast iht is e dikker plank than the normal dakplanking and go from one scheerstrook to the odder scheerstrook.

[Drazen]

So, you say: like the solution by Artitec as on the 1^st photo?

Funny, the Vasa has the visser in the length direction bolted to the beams (as on the 2^nd photo).

Seems, both solutions are OK?

 

Dražen

[amazone]

yes i ges  both solutions are OK  from schaarstok to schaarstok are from beam to beam .