USS Constitution by Modeler12 - Cross-Section - Bow Area

[Modeler12]

My full model is just about finished and I am looking into an additional compliment:
a cross section of the USS Constitution.
 

I want to build this from scratch and use as much of my abilities and tools as I can muster and try to do a decent job. However, to do research into details are usually not in my bag. But it turns out that I have to . . .

The midsection has been covered by others (likewise with the aft section by one adventurer (help who?)), but I would like to show how the crew lived, slept, ate and filled gun powder bags. So, I decided on the area around the ‘stove’.
As it turned out this area also shows some guns on the spar deck, part of fore-mast rigging, then more guns on the gun deck, hammocks on the deck below, the ‘sail room’ and ‘gun powder room’ on the orlop deck. But the main feature I like to stress is the hull construction in the forward parts. Hence, the frames, beams, knees and other timbers become part of the story.
 

I am using the book by Marquadt  ‘Anatomy of the Ship’ (AOTS) for the main reference. He shows a lot of great pictures of all phases and equipment used on the USS Constitution and I have learned a lot from his information.
In particular, I chose the section between the stairs going down from the deck and forward to just ahead of the fore-mast. Using the same scale as my full model (1:76), that is about six inches, or 38 feet real. Page 51 shows a nice top-view of this.

 

In addition, I am still using the drawings that came with my earlier kit of the full model; and here is where I ran into some problems (let’s just call them discrepancies)::::::
 

1.      I mentioned earlier on a different post that the deck beams seemed a bit out of line. In fact the book shows supports at different decks that are not at all above beams below. They simply sit on top of deck planking. I ‘corrected’ that with my interpretation.
 

2.      The frames making up the ship’s hull do not align with the gun-port holes like they should be. Yes, page 61 of the book has clear pictures of the frames, but those are incorrect (in my opinion). The locations of the gun-port holes do not correspond to the full model drawings I have been using. What is worse is that they do not correspond to the locations shown on other pages in the same book.
 

Starting with these two dilemmas, I decided to take some liberties with the design and align the deck beams in a vertical plane and make the body frames along the lines of what Harold Hahn (bless his sole) did with his models. He took two ‘frame’ parts and laminated them to give a more rigid part to work with. Then he decided to eliminate every other one to make the interior more visible. I had to make some assumptions about the frame thicknesses and settled on what I show on the drawings below. This is still not ‘correct’ because the gun port openings should be between frames. But no matter how I juggle the frame thicknesses, I cannot come up with a way to do this unless I use frames of different thicknesses. So, here is where I am now.


Mind you, I have not cut any material yet at this stage. I am just learning what to do.

[Modeler12]

Deck Beams.
The first step I took was to align the deck beams. I used the parts on the spar deck to fix the locations. The hatch covers, for example, have a beam on both sides. AOTS shows the cross beams (carlings) and joists which resulted in drawings for each deck. The one for the berth deck is shown below. The beam thicknesses were scaled from the books drawings, but again there were inconsistencies from page to page, so I am not positive about the results.
 

 

Frames.
For the frame shapes I used the cross sections H and O in the book (page 75) and generated others in between from the profiles shown on page 58.
 

 

This resulted in seven shapes for the eleven frame sets. I will ‘estimate’ the shape of the others which are similar to those for F and H. I copied these to scale on heavy paper and cut out the outside of the profile. These will be glued to the wooden laminates and sawn to size.
I intend to use the technique used by Harold Hahn to cut strips of wood and gluing them such that the grain is in the direction of the thin parts but also so the two pieces have the seams in somewhat different directions. I have done this with other frames as shown in the following thread: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2191-hms-pelican-by-modeler12-per-harold-hahn%E2%80%99s-plans/

 

Knees.
Special wooden blocks or knees are used where the deck beams meet the frames. Some of them are at an angle, others vertical. They are there to distribute the stresses imposed by the deck above. On page 60 of the book Marquardt shows long rows of the slanted knees but he fails to include the vertical (or hanging) knees. A picture of the gun deck is a bit clearer. Another picture of the berth deck shows very heavy curved knees to support the big guns on the deck above.
 

I made drawings for each of those pieces, so I can cut them out when the time comes. Now it is time to put a list of materials together and order some wood.

Meanwhile I appreciate comments and suggestions about my plans thus far. I could really use pictures of the orlop deck and some of the details there.

[cwboland]

Great job on the research and interpretation. I look forward to following along with this unique build

[Modeler12]

Thanks Carl.

Let me expand a bit about my plans.

I think I want to roughly break the section into two parts. The port side (half) would show the 'completed' decks with cannons, riding bit posts, sail room and all the parts that go with it. The starboard side would have several cutouts with planking going only part way from the forward section at O. This would allow me to show the carlings and joists, plus it would provide a better view of things beyond the stove. Only the stove would be full size in the middle of the gun deck.

[usedtosail]

This is going to be great Jay. I think having a cross section along with the full ship model is brilliant and will make a great display.

[Modeler12]

Just an update.

The drawings of the frames are done (11 frames) and I have enough of the poplar to make the laminated sets of frames per Harold Hahn's method, Likewise the drawings of all beams, carlings and joists are done (including the horizontal knees). So, I have enough information to start the 'structure'. 

 

There is a new man on the block for 'lumber'. Jason (working with Jeff Haynes) is now producing lumber as I like it. Here is his web site 

http://www.crowntimberyard.com/

 

I have ordered a number of pieces in boxwood, Swiss pear and holy and see how I can use them for this project.

After my vacation next week I will evaluate and let your know what I think of 'Crown Timberyard'.

[GLakie]

You've definitely done your research Jay. I'll be following along with great interest. I agree with Tom, as having a cross-section with the full-size model will show viewers what's below decks and make for an amazing display.

[Modeler12]

Thank you Tom and George for your vote of 'confidence'. 

When I learned that Jeff of Hobby Mill is retiring, I was afraid of where to get the wood I need for this project. Then I learned that Jason is taking over (or at least is getting help from Jeff), so I wanted to get going with an order before going to Hawaii and before I complete the full scale model that is now sitting (unfinished, to my wife's dismay) inside the new home (display case).

 

Having said this, you should realize that work on this cross section will take some time before going full bore. 

I am still interested in learning more about the gun powder room in the forward section of this ship. If anyone has some details, I would love to hear about them.

[Modeler12]

When I learned that Jeff of Hobby Mill is retiring, I was afraid of where to get the wood I need for this project. Then I learned that Jason is taking over (or at least is getting help from Jeff), so I wanted to get going with an order before going to Hawaii and before I complete the full scale model that is now sitting (unfinished, to my wife's dismay) inside the new home (display case).

I need to clarify this.

Jason is not taking over Hobby Mill. He is an new company and gets help from Jeff as needed. 

It simply implies that Jason (who started his venture before Jeff's retirement) is going to fill a void and I wish him good luck with all of our wood business.

[Modeler12]

The question about the 'discrepancy' in the frame thickness and spacing continued to bother me. So, I did a little more digging and came up with the following:

 

Perhaps the drawings supplied by Model Shipways in their kit are not correct.

All along I have been using those drawings with virtually no problems. However, the width of the spar deck gun ports seem to be in error. The gun ports on the gun deck are wider than those above - they should all be the same width. The spacing also needs to be addressed since that screwed up the alignment with the frames. If my reasoning is correct then my apologies to Mr. Marquardt for suggesting that his drawings were at fault.

Per Marquardt's drawings the frames are actually 15 inches wide and the gun ports about 45 inches. That is three frames, OK.
If I use that for all gun ports, and the correct spacing of each, the 15 inches come out fine. That means that two frames together would be 0.395 inches thick for my model. That is a lot, and I am so far along in my layout that I may forego making new frames. However, I will use the same width for all gun ports in this section (and ignore what I have on the full model). I certainly don't want to correct those

 

I would certainly suggest to those who are just starting the kit to at least consider what I mentioned here. To make all gun-ports the same width should not be a big deal.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Modeler12

[CaptainSteve]

Jay,

You and your builds are the ship-modeller's version of "the gift that just keeps on giving ..."

[trippwj]

Jay -

 

Not sure if this will help, but here is how Humphreys describes the floors and futtocks in his 6/19/1794 list to the War Department:

 

Floor & raising timbers of good white oak sided 12 ½ inches moulded at the floor surmark 15 inches & in the throat from the top of the deadwood 21 inches to be bolted through the keel with one & 3/8 inch bolts. Those bolts should be put as near the side as possible of the keel in order to give room on the other side for the keelson bolts, one floor bolted near the larboard side of the keel, the other on the starboard side. The timber all to be double bolted from the foremast to within 10 feet of the mizzen mast.

Lower futhooks of live oak sided 12 inches in the midships & something smaller at the fore & aft ends of the ship to butt against the side of the deadwood amidships to have cross chocks fayed on the deadwood & their heels to be bolted through the keelson & keel with 1 1/8 inch bolts.

Middle & upper futhooks & top timbers Sided 11 ½ inches. Top timbers moulded a the gun whale 7 inches at the port sill 9 inches all the other timber sized by diminishing line from the port sill to the floor surmark which is 15 inches.

Timbers framed floor timbers, lower futhook, middle & upper and top timbers all to be framed in frames and bolted with 3 bolts 1 ½ inch square in each scarph except the lower futhooks and floor which should have 1 ¼ inch bolts the timber must be pieced fair & true for if they are not out of winding it will be impossible to level the timber with any truth.

 

 

He describes the gunports thusly (dimensions are feet-inches):

 

Height of port sills of the quarter deck & forecastle  1 – 10

Height of ports on gundecks                                             2 – 4

In the clear up & down                                                     2 – 11

Fore and aft                                                                    3 – 5

Distance between ports                                               7 – 5

After port aft side before the rabbet of post                        6 – 4

Fifteen ports on each side besides the bridle or bow port, if any

 

 

The attachment describes the alterations in the frames to accommodate the gun ports.

 

1795-11-16 WD to Constr CIRCULAR_ZXA06.138-143.pdf

Edited March 30, 2015 by trippwj

[GLakie]

I read somewhere that during the kit designing process by Ben Lankford, that some adjustments were made because of the scale of the kit (1:76.8). So as far as being 100% accurate, I don't think it would be. That might be causing your size discrepancies in the MS plans.

[Modeler12]

A couple comments:

Wayne, I really have to digest all the details you present above. Much appreciated, my friend.
One quick check on the distance between ports shows that the plans are fine on the gun deck. It is exactly what I came up with. However, it does not jibe on the spar deck.

 

George, I was not aware of the adjustments made by Lankford, but even at that the width of the gun ports should still have come out to be the same for the two decks. It has been my understanding all along that the gun ports were laid out such that they fitted between the frames. If the gun deck ports are right, then the spar deck ports would have to be the same or different by one frame (and they are not). The difference in the scaling factor is so slight that it would not account for the above.

 

Meanwhile I have decided to redo the plans of the frames. Instead of the eleven I had counted on, there will be fifteen of the 'correct' thickness. Thus 15 inches "real" divided by 76.1  equals 0.197 inch for my model.
All of this unless Wayne's info disputes this also.

 

Steve, I am giving myself the benefit of my doubts and that leads to lots of confusion and also lots of extra work. 

Edited March 30, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

I just received a number of sheets of wood from Jason at Crown Timberyard and decided to make some measurements of the thicknesses. 

The sheets were clearly marked in plastic packages and looked very smooth and neat. They were two inches wide except for one four inch wide piece of holly that he had included for my evaluation. The latter had streaks of grey in various locations but might be interesting when used for deck planking. It also was very smooth.
The Swiss pear sheets are excellent with very uniform grain distribution. A couple of the boxwood sheets, however, had some distinct grain stripes but certainly not obtrusive. All in all I am pleased with the appearance. 

 

I took three samples to measure (I will do the others later). One is a sheet of Swiss pear at a nominal 1/8 inch thickness. The other two are Castello boxwood at 1/4 and 1/32 inch nominal thickness. The results are shown below.

 

The 1/32 inch piece is a bit on the 'heavy' side, but overall the thickness measurements are within 

a nice tolerance.

 

I still need to do some more design work before cutting any of the above. I might mention here that the frames will be cut from poplar wood.

[Modeler12]

Time to make some saw dust.

 

The frames come first. I am using poplar which is readily available at Home Depot and the white parts is what I looked for in some 1x2s.

Eighteen inch lengths were then ripped into strips 0.098 inch thick.

I have a Ryobi table saw which has a sliding miter table. It is ideal for cutting the small segments that come next.

 

The drawing shows how segments make up the frame shape. It is important that the wood grain follows the length of the frame pieces, but it is not critical enough to cut them as the full size frames were (are). However, it is important that the seams do not overlap in adjacent parts. Hence there are two different segments. The next pictures shown what I mean.

  

 

Rather than trying to laminate all eight pieces in one step, I first glued the four equal segments together. The plywood plate and wooden strips are my guides. Note this is for the forward frames which will be cut apart to fit against (not around) the keel. There are four of these sets. The other 11 sets (15 frames) have a different glue-up fixture that I will show later.

 

 

I might add here that the frame that is most visible from the front will have the various futtocks, etc.

[mtaylor]

Jay,

 

Will those frames be "sistered" such that there's two thicknesses of wood for each frame?  I like that layup jig... gives me "evil" ideas for my next build.

[Modeler12]

When I have a few of each type, I laminate them together using wood glue. 

This fixture may be a bit unique. I use toggle clamps that apply a lot of pressure. There is a 'caul-plate' (a piece of 1/2 inch plywood coated with wax), and the two parts will be bonded like that forever. I have tried to use shims to get the right thickness, but gave up because it was not necessary.

 

Then it will be a matter of taking the 15 frame drawings, glue a copy to each frame and start cutting along the lines (that are not clearly shown on the stiff paper). 
That comes later when all laminates are done, but I do intend to cut the inside of the frames first and then the out side.

 

[Modeler12]

Mark, you beat me to my second post. I hope it explains my steps.

[Modeler12]

While I am glueing up the frame sets, I started on the keel.

It is made of 1/4 inch thick boxwood (a bit darker than normal) and a piece of 1/32 inch walnut for the 'false keel' on the bottom.

 

I made a copy of my framing plan and taped it to the keel. This will serve me to cut the curved top as well as notching the recesses for the frame sets. Keep in mind that a set is two pieces of frame and that the gap also represents two frames or one set. The numbers refer to frame sets (or a total of 15).
I intend to use my mill to do the notching.

I will do the same for the 'keelson' which goes on top of the frame sets and keel.

Confusion sets in, right? Unless you read the book by Harold Hahn.

 

When all of this is in place we will have the keel, frames and keelson all glued together, I hope
Meanwhile it's time to make more frame sets.

 

Edited April 22, 2015 by Modeler12

[Modeler12]

One more picture. 

 

The keel and keelson have been notched to receive the frame sets when they are band-sawed to shape. 

My milling machine did a nice job of making clean cuts, but it was a bear to keep track of where I was for each cut. Both the horizontal and vertical positions had to be noted as I went along.

 

The width of the slots is .197 inches (two times the frames) and the depth is about .170 inch for the keel and .080 inch for the keelson. Thus, when I cut the frame sets there should be a .250 inch saddle that fits inside these notches.

Still confused? Just wait until I start cutting the frame sets. It is clear in my mind; but sometimes that don't mean diddly.

BTW the keelson will be trimmed to a narrower piece. But I will do that after all the frame sets fit nicely. It will be the last part to be glued in place (for this assembly).

[GLakie]

I'm sure you'll sort it all out Jay. It's going to be interesting to see the framed section, as opposed to the POB version.

 

Cheers

[mtaylor]

Nice and clean, Jay.  It looks really sharp.

[Modeler12]

Here is the first (and also the front) frame set.

 

Since this is the most visible one, I decided to make the front frame somewhat like the real thing. I used nine pieces and used some pear to give the chocks a bit of contrast. I still need to show the scarf joints towards the top, but decided to make those two parts out of one piece.

I also used steel rods (15 inch long real) to hold the parts to the second frame (thus making up the frame-set).

 

I am keeping the frames rather 'fat', because (unlike most other cross sections that are in the middle of the ship) all frames have a different shape and I want to keep enough room for sanding them when all are done.

Of course, the keelson still needs to be trimmed and all will be dry fitted until I am satisfied they are a go.

BTW the picture shows this set in the second position. It really belongs in the notch in front of the keel/keelson.

  

[GLakie]

You're off to a good start Jay!

 

Cheers

[mtaylor]

Looking good, Jay.  That's a nice contrast on the chocks.

[gjdale]

Nicely done Jay. Think I'll follow along with this one - should be an interesting build.

[Modeler12]

Thank you fellows. It is an interesting project and again I am learning as I go along.
 

I made a couple of the frames with the 1/4 inch wide slots in the bottom sawed and filed individually, but I am having trouble keeping them lined up. So for the rest I will hold off slotting them and try to cut them all at one time (or in groups of three or four). I do need to keep a loose fit so I will have some degree of freedom for final alignment in the lateral positions.

I am also toying with the idea of making up some strips to use on the outside for clamping the frames during final glue up. This came from seeing what Gimo did with the Triton cross section. The difference again will be that the wooden strips need to be bent to the outside contour.

[Canute]

Well done. I really like the chocks in the framing.

[Modeler12]

Well done. I really like the chocks in the framing.

It is a lot of extra work for this model, otherwise I would do all of them this way.

But my intent is to have one half of the model (port side) finished while the starboard side will have various structural parts shown. Only small parts of the hull and decking along that side will be planked in order for more light to come through and show the inside.

Hence not too many of those chocks would show. I may also take some liberties in the details along the port side for the same reason.

 

What I really need are the details of the 'powder room' and light room in or below the orlop deck. Any suggestions, pictures?

Edited April 26, 2015 by Modeler12