HMS Bellona 1760 by SJSoane - Scale 1:64 - English 74 gun, as designed

[Landrotten Highlander]

5 hours ago, AON said:

Sorry, I was unclear.

I did not understand the last sentence: "This also works quite well for bleeding - five minutes of direct pressure by the clock."

I think it refers to 'knife + finger =expletive of yout choice'

Edited March 22, 2018 by Landrotten Highlander

[druxey]

Alan: TMI = "Too Much Information". Direct pressure refers to keeping pressure on a workshop wound for five minutes to stop the bleeding. Of course, accidents like that never happen!

 

Now, back to the Bellona thread!

[paulsutcliffe]

Superglue the cut, hold for five minutes by the clock ha, then try and get your fingers apart

Actually I think he meant hold for five minutes to stop bleeding, no glue lol

Regards Paul 

[SJSoane]

Now I am too scared to proceed, with thoughts of blood, glued fingers, watching clocks....🙂

[SJSoane]

After more careful fitting of the lowest, foremost plank, it bows in the center, keeping the two ends tight against the hull if I can just pull the center tight to the hull by about 1/16". I am contemplating a Spanish windlass, using a cord I managed to thread under the gundeck to a point on the port side opposite the line of force needed. If I smoked, I would smoke a pipe now while contemplating whether this would distort my hull or put creases in the hull where the cord is pulling tight. Since I don't smoke, I will try gently tightening to see whether things start creaking or not.

 

Mark

[druxey]

Have you tried rubber bands or tubing and wedges?

[Hubac's Historian]

If you go that way with the Spanish windlass, maybe set winding sticks at regular intervals across the top of the sheer rails, and then you could see what kind of distortion your pressure is introducing to the hull 🚬

Edited March 23, 2018 by Hubac'sHistorian

[wrkempson]

Trying to muscle the errant middle into place sounds like something I would try to do.  That should warn you that it may be a questionable move.  It seems to me that a buckle in the middle indicates a snying of the ends.  This happens to me (all the time when I was laying on the hull planking) due to poor spiling of the plank.  Before you apply the force, maybe one more time with a careful spiling might be interesting.  

 

I say this as one whose skill falls far below yours, so I offer this more as a question than as advice.

 

Wayne

[druxey]

I agree with Wayne that aggressive wrestling of a plank into place is no substitute for careful spiling. It invites problems down the road.

[SJSoane]

Hi everyone,

 

Thank you, everyone, for the helpful suggestions. It turns out that it was spiled accurately but it had the opposite of spring-back from the steaming and bending; it was bent a trifle too much, so the middle was sitting about a 1/16" away from the hull in the longitudinal direction while the ends were touching the hull. Finger pressure was enough to get it in place.

 

So after trying a number of failed clamping ideas, I went with Greg's suggestion to use spots of cyano in between the carpenter's glue. After experimenting with a few spare pieces, I just went for it. It took rather longer than 90 seconds to grab, and I was able to get some vertical clamps in. And all held well. Nice to have that behind me, and I learned a new good trick.

 

I also took off the batten, because my clamps are too short to span the entire wale plus the batten. Without the batten, you can begin to see the true lines, as in the second photo.

 

Mark

 

 

[druxey]

Glad all went well, Mark! You have a beautiful workshop view....

Edited March 23, 2018 by druxey

[Hubac's Historian]

Your ship is so fair, I believe she could just sail right over those mountain tops.  No problem.

 

That’s some good troubleshooting, you managed, there.

[SJSoane]

Thanks, druxey.

[SJSoane]

And thanks, Hubac'sHistorian. The mountain view makes up for the remoteness. And the long winters provide more inside time in the shop!

 

[Hubac's Historian]

If I had a home shop like that, I would never go to work.  But, then, I guess I wouldn’t be holding onto that shop for too long 

[dvm27]

Looks great Mark! You know, looking at videos of real wooden ship building I believe planking is more difficult for us. We need to have precisely mated joints. The real builders left gaps which were later filled with caulking material.

[SJSoane]

 

 

As I wait for planks to dry after steaming, I started looking at the black strake again. Since the Bellona was a transitional ship designed in 1758, between the earlier Establishments (finishing in 1750) and the later consolidations reflected in Steel (1805) and the Repository (1788), the scantlings are not easily confirmed. Here are the data points on either side of the Bellona's time:

 

Only establishment shown in Allan Yedlinsky's book is for 1719 for an 80 gun ship--because the Bellona was the first 74-- (blank for 1745 and 1750 because presumably the same): "One strake above [the wales] 6 ½" thick." (and no width specified).

 

Steel: 2 strakes, one 7" X 1'-1 ½", the other 6" X 1'-0".

Repository: 2 strakes, one 6 ½" X 1'-0", the other 5 ¼" X 1'-0".

 

Brian Lavery's book on the Bellona calls for 2 strakes, 6 ¾" reduced to 5 ½", but this has no reference to a primary source.

 

My own photo of the Bellona first model does not seem to show a black strake (at the stern, the wale is showing 5 strakes rather than the specified 4, so the partial upper one must be the black strake but it is the same thickness of the rest of the wale; not helpful).

 

Very compelling is the photo of the second Bellona model, shown on Lavery's Ships of the Line cover (see photo below). It appears to show only one strake thinner than the wale but thicker than the planking above, and compared to  the width of the wale (4'-3"), this black strake appears to be about 1'-0", the width of individual strakes called out in Steel and the Repository.

 

And then there is the very good discussion on Gary Shipwright's build log with Gary and druxey (page 14 in the link below), which suggests that there is an additional strake above this one, that tapers from the black strake to the planking above. Assuming the lower strake is 6 ½" thick and not tapered, and the planking above is 4" plank, then the second black strake would be 5 ½" tapering to 4". At 3/16" scale this will be very subtle!

 

 

 

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

[druxey]

If it's any help, I used the fully planked contemporary Bellona as my guide for a 64 of 1781: just one black strake, unpainted as shown. Can anyone say that this is incorrect for that time period?

[Mark P]

Greetings everyone;

 

I have to agree with the comments about the view: I wish it was what I saw from the workshop!

 

Anyway,  to end the digression: see below an extract from a contract for the building of the 74 gun ship Fortitude,  dated 6th February 1778.  A bit later than the Bellona,  but I doubt that much had changed in the way of timber scantlings.

 

The third paragraph details what you need,  but I have left the rest in for comparison also (your model is progressing admirably,  and looks so beautiful!)  Note that the black strake is exactly twice its thickness in height,  and thinner than the wale by 1 3/4 ins.  The plank on top is thinner by 1",  with the planks diminishing up to the under side of the channel wale.

 

MAIN WALES:  The Main Wales to be in breadth from upper edge to lower edge 4ft 4ins,  and in thickness 8 ½ ins.  To have one fair Seam in the Middle & the two lower & two upper Strakes to be lock’d into each other with Hook & Butt wrought of such lengths and the butts properly disposed so as to give the strongest Shift to the Ports & to each other.

THICK STUFF UNDER THE WALES:  To have six Strakes of Thick stuff under the Main Wales,  the upper edge of the upper Strake to be 6 ¾ ins in thickness,  the lower edge of the 3^rd to be 5 5/8 ins,  & the lower edge of the sixth strake to be 4ins in thickness.

THICK STUFF UPON THE MAIN WALES:  To have one Strake upon the Main Wales of 6 ¾ ins in thickness and 1ft 1 ½ ins broad.  The lower edge of the Strake upon that to be 5 ¾ ins thick and to wear off to 4 ins thick at the Channel Wales.

CHANNEL WALES:  The Channel Wales to be in 3 Strakes of 2ft 9ins broad on the perpendicular and of an equal thickness of 5 ½ ins.  Properly shifted & to work down to make a proper Stop and afford Wood for the Port Hook

SHEER STRAKE:  To have a Sheer Strake wrought that its upper edge may be agreeable to the upper edge of the Waste Rail in the Waste,  and only one Inch higher from thence forward,  and from the Waste Aft.  To be in breadth 12ins and 4ins thick,  & of English Plank in Wake of the Channels.

STUFF BETWEEN THE CHAN. WALE & SHEER STRAKE:  The first Strake upon the Channel Wale  to be in thickness 4ins,  & the next under the Sheer Strake to be in thickness 3ins,  & the intermediate Strakes to be diminished agreeable to the lower and upper edges of these two.

SHEER STRAKE:  From the first drift forward & Aft to work one Strake of 3ins thick on the Sheer Strake,  and the upper edge of the Strake under the Planshire  (sic) from the Drift Aft to be diminished to the thickness of 2 ½ ins,  which is to be dry English Plank.

 

Interesting stuff!

All the best,

Mark P

 

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Mark P

[SJSoane]

Thanks, everyone, this is beginning to converge on what seems to make the most sense.

 

I will assume the Bellona scantlings were at the thinner end of these ranges, since everything seemed to grow larger towards the end of the eighteenth century. The scantlings for 80 gun ships in the 1719 and 1750 Establishments most closely match many other sizes for the Bellona 74 that I have been able to verify from other sources, so I will assume the 6 ½" for the thickness of the black strake as set forth in the Establishments and further stated by the Ship's Repository a few decades later. Looking at the fully planked Bellona model, this was of a constant thickness, although it does seem to have a rounded upper surface as seen at the gunport. And the later sources and the Bellona model appear to call for a 1'-0" width (plus ½" in some sources), close enough for me at 3/16" scale.

 

In most of the primary sources that call for a second plank above this, they specify a plank 1" thinner than the wale, or 5 ½" in this case, wearing off to the 4" planks above. But this does not appear to be the case in the Bellona model itself. The difference in thickness between the black strake shown in the model, and the planking directly above it, looks to be more like 2" --since the planking above is 4", this exact difference would be 2 ½". And so there appears to be no special second plank above the single black strake with its rounded top, just the normal 4" planking.

 

Given this, I am inclined to follow druxey's lead here, and use a single strake, not painted, 6 ½" X 1'-0", with a rounded top.

 

So why would the Bellona model use only one black strake, as called for in the Establishments that finished in 1750, and not two strakes, as called for in all of the sources and all of the contracts for individual ships a few decades later? I will assume that the experimental Bellona design in 1758, the first 74 in the British navy, drew upon the last Establishment revision of 1750 for most or all of its scantlings. As best I can tell, the old 80 gun ship in the Establishment was about the same overall size of the new 74; so why not use the well-tested scantlings for a ship of that size? The creative energy would have gone into changes in deck and gun layouts to convert from an 80 to a 74 of the same size, not changing the fundamental fabric of the structure.

 

And of course the later 74s following in the footsteps of the Bellona grew increasingly larger; and so a few decades later, their scantlings would have likewise grown.

Interesting that an additional transitional strake above the black strake creeps in over the next few decades. I have no idea for explaining this evolution!

 

Druxey, did you round the top of your black strake, like in the Bellona model?

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

[michael mott]

Hi mark just catching up the shot from the stern along the wales really does show the fine work that you are accomplishing. The view is not only spectacular from the shop window, but the interior of the shop look mighty fine too.

 

Michael

[druxey]

Good question! I actually gave the upper edge a soft-edged 45 degree bevel, as I did for the wale below. At the time, this is how I saw/interpreted the Bellona and other contemporary models' style. Perhaps there were variations depending on the shipyard.

[SJSoane]

Hi Michael, thanks so much for the nice comments. And thanks, druxey, for guidance on the black strake.

 

Work proceeds on the lower two strakes. These have proven to be more difficult than I expected, more difficult than the upper strakes. Perhaps because the hull begins to curve inwards at the lower level, combined with the challenges of clamping that low down and on the curve of the bow. I reached the flat section, and hope to pick up the pace before hitting the challenging stern section.

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

 

[druxey]

Might it be easier to either invert the hull for these strakes or lie it on its side?

[SJSoane]

Thanks, everyone, for the likes. And thanks, druxey, I may try upside down when I get to the multiple twist stern planks. For now, the straight side is going quickly--at least as quickly as I seem to be able to work. As I move along, I am scribing the lower edge relative to the top edge with a compass, to ensure parallel edges. I am trying to sand these lower surfaces to the correct size before attaching, because I need to protect the hull surface below which will always be exposed; no lower planking for me!

 

I tried a sample of blackening using Fiebing's black shoe polish. However, I see I have a problem cutting a clean line as I will need to do on the stem pieces, as seen on the 2nd Bellona model below. On my sample, I used Tamiya model tape pressed down with a burnisher to make an edge; on the left side, I also scored the wood with a scalpel, I thought fairly deep. But both sides let stain run past the edge. Any thoughts on how to cut a clean edge using the shoe polish?

 

I pulled out some samples I made a number of years ago, using Floquil flat black diluted to act more as a stain. It also ran under the masking tape. I will try Ed's Speedball ink next, but I suspect that since it is also watery, I will have the same problem. I don't want to point fingers, but look at the wiggly line painted on the Bellona model...

 

Mark

 

[paulsutcliffe]

It doesn't matter how quick you work mark to get lovely tight joints like that, great work

Regards

Paul 

[albert]

Very nice work Mark.

[dvm27]

You might want to check with Alex M, Mark (https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/410-hms-sphynx-by-alex-m-scale-148-english-20-gun-frigate-as-build-1775/&). His wales are planked exactly like yours and he managed to blacken them perfectly after the hull was fully planked.

 

I have blackened wood on my model by scoring the boundry line with a scalpel and applying blue painters tape. This was Druxey's suggestion and it worked well for me. But, as a rule, I try to keep Fiebings dye as far from my model as possible. One errant drop on the previosuly laid deck is irrepairable. 

[druxey]

I agree with Greg that one needs to be extremely carful with dye. My own strategy for the bow end of the wale was to dye the foremost pieces before installing them on the model. Of course, there will be sanding of the wale after, but the extreme hooding ends of those planks should not need touching up with dye.

[SJSoane]

Thanks for the likes, and thank you Paul and Albert for your kind comments.

 

Thanks Greg and druxey, for thoughts on the staining/painting issue. I don't think I will have problems on the wales on the upper side, because I can paint/stain before installing the black strake, so I can get a clean line there. And the lower side I think I can cut in with masking tape and an incision, because the wales are physically a separate piece from the hull. I take your point, Greg, about errant stain; I will probably turn the hull upside down and mask the entire thing except the wales before commencing.

 

The challenge is on the stem itself, where the paint edge simply stops on the same surface as seen in the Bellona photo above.

 

I looked back at Alex M.'s terrific Sphinx project, reminded again what an outstanding project that was. He reported that he used acrylic paint for the wales, which would make sense for the predicament I find myself in. Undiluted paint would sit on the surface, and allow a sharp edge to be cut in, whereas diluted paint and stains soak in and run along the grains past the tape. The problem with paint is that it will cover up the wood grain. The Bellona model looked painted, not stained, and perhaps I need to get used to this idea for my model. Or maybe I can work a way to cut in an edge with paint, and then stain up to the paint.

 

I think I will have the same challenge when it comes to painting the gun port stops in red; I had been hoping to use my red stain, and may have to consider paint.

 

I will try a few more experiments and see what I can come up with. 

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark