The Naiad Frigate by Ed Tosti

[EdT]

A very good improvement, Salvatore.  It allows the screw in the middle of the jaw to open the jaw when it is tightened.  Very good.  Helps close the performance gap between the two types.

 

Another possible improvement would be to make the hole at the washer a slot.  I believe this might give the clamp more flexibility.

 

Ed

[Smac]

Yes indeed Ed. I will try it, although the "more complex" clamps are extremely flexible and very effective (I made 20 of them and they are constantly in use), but I can understand why making them could appear mysterious and a little scary.

I don't know if this is the proper place to praise Young America, but let me say it is even more beautiful than the Naiad. I have recently been to Greenwich (UK) and gone onboard the Cutty Sark, now fully restored after the great fire of few years ago. It has a combined structure of wood and iron and I wonder when this building practice was started, compared to the, I believe fully wooden, structure of the Young America. 

A book on it would be a feast; give to it a serious thought.

Regards
Salvatore

[EdT]

20! Wow! That's a project.

 

I have not seen Cutty Sark for almost 25 years.  First visit was in 1970.

 

British shipbuilding began the use of iron to replace wood even before Naiad, but the use accelerated in the early 19th century.  This was due to the deforestation of Britain by the shipbuilding industry - especially the Royal Navy.  In America there was no shortage of good timber - white oak, live oak and hard pine - so the American builders used wood throughout most of the 19th century - and well into the twentieth for sailing ships.  Also, iron in America was expensive and usually imported well into the 19th century.

 

Except for the iron strapping - coming soon - and of course the thousands of bolts - Young America was a wooden ship.

 

Ed

[rtropp]

Salvatore,

That does look good. I now that I have what I need for the 6-32, I will first make it as originally designed, to keep it simple while I am learning. Then I will try it with the washer, which should not be too difficult.

If anyone tries the slot, please post the results.

 

Right now I am focused on redoing my siren deck... again. Hopefully the third time is the charm.

 

Thanks all

Richard

[Smac]

Thank you Ed, very interesting how the availability or the paucity of raw materials affect the construction's technique, hindering perhaps the development of maritime science. I would have thought that a composite structure is stronger and lighter in general terms than a wholly wooden one ...

Salvatore

[alde]

Hi Ed,

 

Based on this thread I just ordered both books from Sea Watch Books. Will I get all the latest changes in these books? Should I go back and get all the additions posted in this thread?

 

Thanks for what promises to be great reading and a future project.

 

Al D.

[EdT]

Al,

 

Thanks for your interest in the books.  I hope you will enjoy them.

 

Both books are in the first printing and do not include updates.  Whenever an error is found - apart from minor typos - I post these on this forum on this topic or the one for Volume II.  I have also posted useful supplementary information in a few cases.  I suggest you go back through the postings and collect the various addenda.

 

Ed

[alde]

Thanks Ed, I will do that. I assume it's ok to save a PDF of these files to my hard drive as well as print them to add to the book?

 

It's great to have the author here to ask questions of. I really appreciate that.

 

Thanks again, Al D.

[EdT]

Al,

 

As with the pdfs on the CD, no problem printing copies as you need them for your use.

 

Ed

[rtropp]

Well, I finally had a chance to work on the clamps. I used scrap basswood that I had around the shop. I will have to get some hard wood. Beech planks have not been easy to find online so I am trying to decide which other woods would be nice. Since do not have a thickness sander I am trying to find it 5/16" thick. Any suggestions for other wood types is welcome. I used pre threaded 6-32 brass

 

Did not have dowels so used lathe to shape the caps.

 

 

 

 

After a little more practice, perhaps building in the modifications suggested above, I will tackle the more complex 4-40.

Thank you all for your help.

 

Richard

[dgbot]

Have you exoerimented with boxwood or cherry?

David B

[mtaylor]

Beech?  Try HobbyMill or the Lumberyard.  In addition to boxwood or cherry, there's maple, pear, etc.  You might even try red oak for the clamps.  Depends on what you're willing to pay for wood.

[rtropp]

I found the beech at lumber yard. I am going to try that as well as some of the other recommendations. Hard maple should work and I would like to see the clamps finished in a few of the exotics if they are hard enough. (and when I start building them more like Salvatore and Ed.)

 

Thanks Richard

[EdT]

I do not think basswood is strong enough.  Any hardwood would be better.  I used maple and have used some Castello as well.  Maple, cherry, beech, pear, oak would all be good.  You can probably get a piece of oak or maple at Home Depot - if you can rip it into strips.

 

An old piece of maple furniture from a yard sale or junkyard is a perfect cheap source - well dried hardwood - will yield a lifetime supply of tool parts (or model parts).

 

I wouldn't go overboard on rare woods.  Once these get used they get dirtied up with glue - especially darkened glue. 

 

Ed

[EdT]

A couple more suggestions for free/cheap wood sources: Old (or even new) tool handles - hammers, axes, garden tools.  Usually ash, maple, beech, hickory, sometimes oak or birch.  Old wood baseball bats - ash, hickory or hard maple.  I recall that many of the treenails on my Victory model came from a broken hickory axe handle.  I am pretty sure my clamps came from an old maple drawer front.

 

Occasionally, but rarely, some usable wood turns up in a load of firewood - in our area, cherry, elm, oak - may need a year or two to dry out. 

 

Of course some work is required to turn these pieces into usable material - and tools - at least a hand plane and a circular saw.

 

I admit to being thrifty (perhaps even cheap) in buying wood, but there is some satisfaction salvaging really good wood from junk.  If youre on a shipmodelling budget, I can suggest better ways to spend money.

 

Ed

[rtropp]

Hi,

I knew the basswood was too soft but since I had plenty around I figured I would use it for my first attempt, just to see how it went.

I used the word "exotic" incorrectly. I meant woods like cherry or pear. But your point about the clamps being working tools is well taken.

I have found the beech online but had not thought of Maple. I think, as long as I am ordering wood, I will try some. I will look into cast offs to convert for tooling. hadn't thought of that either. I had some oak trees cut down recently and have some choice pieces drying in the pole barn, but not sure I want to wait for them to get started.

 

Things in my shop will be slowing down. Despite all my attempts to avoid interrupting my retirement, I received a contract offer I just could not refuse. I will be commuting to Houston weekly for the foreseeable future and I expect that to put a kink in my build for awhile.

Strangely,

I spied my wife dancing in kitchen when I wasn't looking. Hmmm... have I been home too long

 

Richard

Edited February 16, 2014 by rtropp

[robertr1954]

Hi Ed.

I just received your book a few days ago but was disappointed that the CD was not included.  I sent off an email to Seawatch Books and am still waiting for a reply.

 

The book itself is brilliant and I have started reading it with a view to commencing the model when I get the CD.

 

Your initial set-up for the project and the myriad of tools etc that you considered is first-class.  Many thanks

 

Rob

[EdT]

Thank you, Rob. I am sure Seawatch will get you the missing CD promptly. Good luck with the project.

 

Ed

[SJSoane]

 

Ed,

 

I just re-read your books on a vacation, and came away yet again with many good ideas for tools, construction methods, etc. Thanks again for a remarkable resource!

 

Mark

[dgbot]

I have both vols it is worth every penny.

David B

[EdT]

Addendum 5 - The Naiad Frigate Volume I

 

There is an error on the notes sheet PDF for Drawing 1, The sheer Draft.  On that sheet the height of the lower deck at the AP is given as 22’ 4”.  The correct height is 18’ 4”.  The drawing is correct.

 

Sorry for any inconvenience.

 

Ed

[EdT]

Addendum 6 - The Naiad Frigate Volume I - Jogging Cant Frame 26f

 

This issue was brought to my attention by Albert, whose beautiful work on his model of Naiad can be found on this site.  The issue concerns the accurate framing of the aftermost 9-pounder gun ports on the quarterdeck.  These ports - one on each side - fall within the toptimbers of the aft cant frames.  To frame these accurately requires "field fitting" the upper futtocks on frames 26f by jogging them slightly.  Although jogging notes are included on all of the square frame patterns, the cant frame pattern in question does not include this.  The attached pdf describes the required adjustment to frame 26f.

 

 

Addendum 6 PDF.pdf

 

Ed

Edited July 2, 2015 by EdT

[Nenseth]

Are any of these books available for sale in europe? Or for that matter, the books for The fully framed Model from Seawatchbooks?

[druxey]

Unfortunately there is no European distributor or agent, Hans Christian. Contact SeaWatchBooks directly for any of their titles.

Edited July 3, 2015 by druxey

[Nenseth]

The problem is the shipping of $70 per book...

[bobcat]

HI,

 

Shipping volume I to Europe and Asia is $30. Volume II because of its weight is $50. However both books, when bought together can fit into a flat rate box offered by the US Post Office and will cost 60 to 70 dollars depending on location.

 

Thanks,

 

Bob Friedman

[Nenseth]

My bad, I meant $30 (or more) per book, which is still a lot of money for the comlete set.

 

-----------------

 

$200 in just shipping, a bit steep

 

 

HMN Swan Class Sloops 1767 - 1780 Volume I - Revised 1 x ($70 each + $30 each) = $100

 

Rigging a Sixth Rate Sloop of War 1767-1780 Volume IV - Revised and Expanded 1 x ($70 each + $30 each) = $100

 

BUILDING THE SWAN CLASS SLOOP PEGASUS 1777 Volume III 1 x ($65 each + $30 each) = $95

 

HMN Swan Class Sloops 1767 - 1780 Volume II - Revised 1 x ($70 each + $30 each) = $100

 

 

 

THE NAIAD FRIGATE (38) 1797 Volume II 1 x ($80 each + $50 each) = $130

 

The Naiad Frigate (38) 1797 Volume 1 1 x ($75 each + $30 each) = $105

    _________

 

    Total: $630

Edited July 3, 2015 by Nenseth

[bobcat]

Hi,

 

Those 6 books will fit in a Large size flat rate box and the cost for that is $80. I use the lowest cost services that I can find.

 

Bob Friedman

[lagrayjr]

Ed, I am proceeding nicely with the build of Naiad and have completed the fore and aft cant frames. I'm currently working on the square frames which is, as you know, slow. I have a question regarding frame construction. Square frame 6F says" third centerline on lower centerline". I am not sure how to interpret this. In addition I would like to confirm that all top timbers and 4th futtocks are10.5" side at heels. This is a great build and I thank you for writing the two books which are extremely detailed and easy to understand and follow. This summer I took a trip on the Sea Cloud built in 1931 for Marjorie Wethington Post and E.F. Hutton on the Adriatic Sea. There was a crew of a proximally 50. The ship sailed every day we were on it. One day we had a strong wind  and the ship made 11.7 knots. The ship is similar to a clipper and is square rigged. It was exciting to see the crew handled the sails etc. I am sure you would find a trip similar to this very exciting especially since you are building the Young American. The trip was through Lindblad Expeditions National Geographic which I highly recommend. Laman

[EdT]

Laman,

 

I don't know what I could have been thinking when /I wrote the notation on Frame 6f pattern,  It should read " Third futtock centered on lower futtock.  Upper futtock aft face on third futtock aft face."  I apologize for the garbled note.  These notations are often cryptic at best.  If in doubt about these, consult drawing 3, the framing elevation.  This shows the alignment of futtocks on each frame.  These duplicate the futtock alignments on the original Admiralty draft.

 

For the frame scantlings, consult the Notes and Dimensions for Drawing 3 (PDF) on the CD.  You will see that the 4th futtocks are sided 11"  and the toptimbers 10.5" diminishing to 10" at the top of the side (not 'sided' as written) and at the tops of the upper futtock heads.  These notes and dimension sheets are the primary reference for dimensions.  As a matter of interest, I took the 10.5" dimension from The Shipbuilder Repository 1788.  Steel gives this dimension as 11" for 38 gun frigates.

 

I am very glad you are finding the books useful - and especially glad to hear you find them easy to follow.  I wish you a successful build of Naiad and would love to see some pictures.  Why not start a build log?

 

Sailing on the Sea Cloud sounds like a great experience.  11 knots is about the fastest speed measured for Naiad.  Did you go aloft?

 

Ed

 

If you have not already done so, I suggest printing all of the drawing Notes and Dimensions sheets and keeping a copy in the shop for easy reference as you work.