Thistle17

As stated earlier Bill has built numerous models over the years. He has built matchstick versions early on, solid laminated hulls and plank on bulkhead. In this case he chose to build a POB hull. Bill will scan station profiles into Corel Draw and will "piecewise" smooth the lines to achieve the desired bulkheads needed. His output is fed to a laser cutter at a local vendor he has used before. There is always some "put and take" but ultimately he achieves the desired outcome. Now this model is over 5 feet long and the bulkhead alignment jig is only 3 feet long so the hull had to be made in two halves. The hull is symmetrical about the mid ship station so it was a repeat of the initial process. Obviously keel alignment had to be carefully observed. You can see the keel extension beyond the rear of the jig. Here is one half of the hull on his large work table.

There is a decent top level bio on Wikipedia regarding the USS Agawam. She was built in 1863 in Portland Maine and was among 28 built over a period of just 2 years (1862 -1864). with a crew of 145 to man her steam and supplementary sail propulsion she was able to navigate the inshore seas and inland waterways. Her armament consisted of 2 -100 pounders, 4 - 9 inch, 2- 24 pounders (smooth bore), 2- 12 pounders. More can be found on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Agawam_(1863). Photos were invaluable to Bill in determining deck detail. Later on you will see that Bill's model does not display the tarpaulin covers seen in this photo. But his model adds the framework for accuracy. Joe

Bill E. is a founding member of Model Shipwrights of Western NY and has been modeling since a very early age so his builds are many and his techniques over the years have evolved and embraced modern technology to a large extent. I would have to say he is our main technologist and through him we have been introduced to these modern techniques in a first hand manner. Bill's interest have almost exclusively been in the area of early America powered Navy and Civil War Era craft. He comes by the Civil War interest honestly, as his great grandfather was a captain in the RI First Calvary. Bill even wrote a book about him," Don't Tell Father I have Been Shot At" as he was a war hero and had kept many artifacts and writings about his service. There is a brief on the Amazon Book Store for those interested. Many of his models have been donated or loaned to various museums around the country and you may see one of his latest works , the USS Langley at the Smithsonian. His most recent endeavor has been the USS Agawam, a double ender gunboat of the Sassacus class built during the Civil War. A reference can be found at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Sassacus_(1862). This vessel is on loan to the Military History Society of Rochester NY and is the center piece of a recent expansion of the museum. What promotes Bill to the front of our group is his penchant for research, incorporation of modern technology, his vision of model end point and undying passion. Bill has been known to trot down to the National Archives, camp out nearby and bike in to research a subject. He employs computer design to fabricate laser cut intricate parts, he employs vacuum forming techniques for certain elements and he utilizes numerous finishing techniques that set his model apart. Herein is not exactly a build log but a build progression hopefully showing his methodology in building Agawam. Please follow along as entries are made over a short period of time. Bill is a modest guy so if there are questions of further inquires I will get answers as this thread unfolds. Joe

I could come down on both sides of this thread. All prior comments can't be denied. Having said that in the past I have leaned to the side of buy the best you can afford and adapt using your skills and knowledge to overcome tool shortfalls. For example in my woodworking shop I do not have a top of the line table saw. It is a Delta 10 inch, contractor's saw with a full cast iron table that I later added on side and outfeed extension tables with a Unisaw fence. It has been a workhorse for nearly 45 years. It never disappoints and replacing it is not a near term thought. The only thing I was uncompromising about was the blades. They make the work a joy. They just have to be kept sharp and treated with respect. A number of shop made jigs have made this saw even more versatile. I sometimes chuckle to think that when I bought the Byrnes saw I paid as much for it as I did my shop saw. I have never looked back with regret. In modeling we work with thousands of an inch in some cases. That is hard to achieve with some model saws on a repeatable basis. Mitre slots are sloppy, blade arbors are not adjustable to achieve feed parallelism or their run out is poor. I could go on. So to me there was no question as what to buy and how much to spend. And if I need a bit of self delusion I always ask myself..."Spread over a life time how much is this purchase really costing me?". Joe

Clever use of the ubiquitous Lego Blocks. I started mine on vacation without the helpers and it caused me some problems along the way. Ensuring the "trueness" of the bulkheads is key to this little model. You are on the right track. Joe

Well John there are so many dimensions to your layout one could take any sub section or picture and spend so much time in wonder and awe. Model railroading requires so many skills to recreate the very authentic scenes and settings. They truly are priceless. In studying just a few one quickly realizes that your depictions stem from an incredible imagination and determination to create realism. You are gifted! Joe

There are no words one has to recognize what you and others do in the line of duty. Having had a family member who was in the city fire department I am aware of what you and he have done! Thank you. Mending is the most important thing you can do. The body is an amazing machine. I am a returning modeler as well. When you get started the advice I have learned from others is to proceed slowly, accept that you will make mistakes and don't be afraid to do over. If you live in an area that has ship modelers do join when you can. If not put a post on the this site in the section that lists club activities etc. Also The Nautical Research Guild kindly supplied me with members in and around my area. We started with about 7 people and now we are about double that. Joe

We are still here but not as active as we wish. As I am sure you all know life can get in the way. In any event we have an important update regarding reference modeling material. A good Samaritan on the west coast was able to get all the PBR drawings declassified through contacts that provided an avenue into the archives. The drawings we obtained were of good use but did not have what I would describe as next level detail. For example the drawings and dimensions of the forward tub for the 50 caliber guns. Well we have them now and we will have to give credit to our colleague Joel on the west coast. Our lead "general contractor" is now converting those drawings to 1:6 scale for our use. This windfall is going to save us so much time. We are truly grateful! So Tom we are all set and thank you for your efforts. Since February little has been done on the model but will start up again as soon as this week. We have to finish the starboard side fairing but after that it we will begin the inboard floor and skins. We do have some additional pressure afoot. The Military History Society Museum, which hosts us, is expanding. In the new addition there is a display area for this model that awaits us. It will be in somewhat of a diorama presentation, at dockside, in the process of being loaded up for a mission. No pressure eh? Joe

Jim without giving away any trade secrets what is involved in modifying the standard table top? I presume it is just the table top. Can one just send in the top? I think this product is an excellent accessory! Joe

Jim I am interested in one can you post a picture? Joe

You should be aware that Thurston has closed if you do not source your blades from Byrnes. Here is another source that Thurston recommends: MALCO SAW COMPANY 22 FIELD STREET CRANSTON, RI 02920 PHONE: 401-942-7380 FAX: 401-946-6092 CONTACT: GREG LIVESEY Email: greg@malcosaw.com Website: www.malcosaw.com

My wife reminds me "You are getting older", not "your getting old". This is such a great way to satisfy your creative needs and produce something of worth! Welcome. Joe

I have just heard back from the Any Time Tools people. The 12 inch unit on their web site is no longer available. They have directed me to the Amazon offering which has an advertised accuracy of .002 over 6 inches and .004 over 12 inches. I conclude from this that the referenced part performs as my older unit and is adequate for most operations one would need for ship modeling. To this point, with some outliers, my outdated unit is performing essentially as the newer ones. The display functions seem adequate for normal saw operations. They communicate to me there is the capability to add a DC power source although the site depicts battery power. Mounting can be achieved through a separate attachment. Here are the references they have provided. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01G4FQJI6?ref=myi_title_dp https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CPLEW46?ref=myi_title_dp https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00INL0BA2?ref=myi_title_dp Joe

I happened to stumble upon, a new to me technology for DRO application. It is termed magnetic technology and in comparison is quite impressive in terms of performance with accuracy and repeatability beyond the performance of the capacitive type configurations. Here is a site for reference http://www.dropros.com/DRO_PROS_Digital_Readout_Magnetic_Scale.htm That's the good news. The bad news is the cost for a 12 inch unit in the range of $400 to $500! I still await a response from the Any Time Tools, so in the mean time I did rerun the test using the saw blade as a reference and again using the method suggested by Bruce in his post. For his suggestion I clamped the miter gauge to the table top and used its in board edge (the mitre bar) as a stationary reference. The other aspect of this test was that I ensured the 'Z' bracket "play" was canceled out since I now believe one must fasten it to the fence traveler as opposed to rare earth magnet attachment. The results do show some deflection dissonance caused by the blade method but the results are relatively the same with no outliers. I conclude, even with my older unit, that the accuracy and repeatability are worth the effort of adapting the unit to the saw. Joe IGAGING.Test.xlsx

Hey there. In this world of plank on bulkheads and frame it is refreshing to see a solid hull model come to life. That is where I began my journey into ship models. I am intrigued by the assembly methodology so have signed up to track your progress. I am curious about the hull line shown above. Is that the waterline? Joe

In the interim, as I await a response from Anytime Tools I am sharing my rendition of mounting the IGAGING Linear Scale to the Byrnes Saw. I had examined other ways of adapting the device to the saw and ultimately returned to a methodology of the earlier rendition posted on MSW by another member. It was sound to use the saw table top as the datum for mounting the device. It serves as an alignment measure for the height, parallelism and distancing references needed to enable easy alignment, mounting and "loading" of the inboard saw fence "carrier". I chose readily available materials, that were easily machined and light in weight. All mounting utilized is common #8-32 hardware. The other factor in choosing this methodology was "do no harm" to the Byrnes saw. There are just a few modifications I would make to my current version: 1. Pad out the plexiglass mounts to "buy back" the 5/16" lost in fence excursion. This is related to the IGAGING electronic enclosure interference with the rail mount of the saw. 2. Instead of chamfered #8-32 mounting holes to attach the plexiglass supports to the aluminum saw mount I would make them countersunk loose fit clearance holes for easy alignment (parallelism) of the supports to the front and top of the saw table. 3. I had on hand 1/2 X 1 X 1/8 inch aluminum right angle. I would use 3/4 X 3/4 X 1/8 inch and eliminate the machining of the "port" bracket for interference of the belt shroud. 4. Depending on which unit anyone settles on the display mounting may need some consideration in that some units come with the swivel arm mount and some do not. Or maybe it is just a case of "as you like it". 5. If it is mounted as shown I would be very inclined to shorten the interconnect cable and shield it. 6. I had originally intended to use rare earth magnets to attach the "Z" bracket of the unit to the fence traveler but I have since noticed that there is a bit of play (in the "X" axis) using the knurled lock down nut as a securing method. 7. This is just an acknowledgement item. One can still get a 3/8" open end wrench in the belt shroud to hold the outboard height lock down but it would help if one that is a bit longer than the normal 3/8".

Your right Mark, truly you are? I will have to keep that in mind as I progress. Last eve I received an e-mail from Any Time Tools regarding a query I sent into them with the data above. They returned an answer I somewhat expected. My unit has been discontinued. They are recommending another unit but it seems to have the accuracy of mine. So I am back at them to get to the bottom of it all. The one on their site is out of stock but has a 4 X accuracy or so they say. In retrospect I should have set up a "lab" experiment to evaluate the DRO unit prior to "tricking out" my saw. I had erroneously assumed that it had performance matching my digital calipers (a Harbor Freight Saturday Night Special) which demonstrates good accuracy and repeatability. One lives and learns! Joe

Bruce you make a good observation. I will rerun the experiment using your suggestion to reduce/eliminate possible blade flex. Since yesterday I tried to order a new unit and they are out of stock so this may be an extended saga. In the process of this experiment I have to admit that I may be taking this a bit far as I wonder just how much one needs .001 accuracy to make model ship parts? Joe

With the exception of the first reading it appears to fall within the advertised accuracy (.004") but the repeatability ranges from - .0035" to +.0035". At this point I am thinking I will purchase the newer aluminum unit and retry the same experiment. Standby. Joe

I continue to evaluate the performance of the IGAging Linear Scale. For the past few days I have been observing some unexplainable deviations from what I expected in terms of repeatability of measurements. In trying to calibrate the fence settings I was using my wood shop brass gauging blocks (the square ones that are graduated from 1/8 to 1/2 inch). I was using the 1/2 inch one primarily and I was getting results that were way off (.010 deviation or more). I finally took a square to the brass bar and found it had a bow in the middle of the used face giving me the varying deviation. So I switched to the 3/8 bar and measured it at .3755" on my digital caliper (advertised accuracy .001"). In 10 consecutive measurements (blade set low, fence moved against blade and zeroed out on the DRO, fence moved past 0.0375 and then moved in against the brass bar) I got the following DRO readings: Test Reading Deviation H/L Pwr On 1 0.384 0.0085 H 2 0.378 0.0025 H 3 0.374 0.0015 L 4 0.379 0.0035 H 5 0.375 0.0005 6 0.375 0.0005 7 0.374 0.0015 L 8 0.375 0.0005 9 0.373 0.0025 L 10 0.372 0.0035 L

There is an excellent reference in the magazine "Fine Woodworking", Tools & Shops", Winter 2019 on pages 80-86. It speaks to products and techniques for rust removal, prevention and maintenance. If you can't obtain it in the library go to Taunton Press, Fine Woodworking.com. Joe

I will be supplying photos soon. My only timidity is related to the actual device, not the mounting methodology. I am still evaluating the performance. I have no affiliation with the IGaging folk or anyone else that resells the product. I just want to be sure it is worth the trip. I hope you understand. I went through 3 iterations of the mounting and ended back where the original MSW member started with his mounting system. It is just a bit more refined I believe. However his approach is the right way to go. In regard to the IGaging device I am thinking I will order a newer version and see if I find the utility and advertised performance works to my satisfaction. Of particular note in the product features it appears that they have slightly changed the functionality by what I can discern from the web site images. Mark the repeatability is one area I am addressing. At first blush I am not too impressed with mine. It does not have an ABS(olute) function on my vintage. It has a Preset and INC(rement) function. The newer ones have the ABS function. Strangely "sometimes" my unit holds the measurement I dialed in when power is turned off and then on. It doesn't seem to hold the same (actual) displacement dimension when I move the fence however. These are the kind of performance anomalies I am addressing. Joe

I finally have gotten around to outfitting my Byrnes saw with a DRO as a previous member herein had shared. I employed a IGaging 35-712 P of a vintage around 2016. I glean it is an older model as it's accuracy is advertised as .004" vs todays .0015". I have spent a good deal of time learning how these devices work and empirically how they perform. I thought it would be a good "community" repository of knowledge to help others interested in digitizing non DRO machines. There are relatively inexpensive units and of course there are more expensive ones as well. The IGaging company offers product at the lower end in two tiers; aluminum substrate versions and the more expensive stainless steel variety. The price differential is just about 2X between units. The Igaging units are not proprietary as other company's offer nearly look alike product. Also there is an emergence of Bluetooth connectivity and "apps" for some more intelligent display and interactive devices. One has to graduate to the more expensive tier to get at the data output. Many people have used the units on midi mills and the like as they offer an X/Y/Z package. The saw of course only requires one for fence displacement. Using the information located on Yuri's Toys web site one can get a decent understanding of the characteristics (and of course the vulnerabilities) of the devices. Here in brief form is what I have learned so far applying the device to the saw: 1. The accuracy is pretty true to the advertised number i.e. .004 2. Repeatability is somewhat tenuous. 3. The unit functions better when the 6 foot cable is not coiled up. I suspect crosstalk. 4. It is recommended that the USB cable either be cut down or shielded for operation in "noisy' environments. 5. I find that the displacement function i.e. measuring from the saw blade to right or left is all I presently find useful. 6. The caveat is that it must be zeroed every time the fence is moved. So with this beginning can we continue to create a repository of info for application of these devices and log them here? I think it would be of great value to many. Joe

My new blades arrived and I installed a like for like Thurston I-292 and it works great! So indeed it was a dull blade. And Jim I did not realize they were hollow ground. I should have checked it. Thank you. Joe

Ac input 120 -240 VAC, 50/60Hz, 100MA. DC output 9V, 305ma. female micro plug. Joe