Morgan

Chris,

I have the ordnance records for Agamemnon in 1804, given they are a mix of George 3 and George 2 cypher there were several pre 1760 guns, and hence an earlier pattern than Frederick-Armstrong they are probably the original as issued when launched. I believe she took these to her watery grave.

I’ll dig these out later and send them to you if you don’t have them.

Gary

Malcom Darch cooked up his Eggs’n’Bacon with research assistance from the NMM - a nice recipe to try!

Gary

You should see if you can find dimensions for the Vasa, she is an extant example of an early 17th Century ship. 
 

https://www.vasamuseet.se/en

Gary

Try here for them, they are in stock.
 

https://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/Corel-Model-Boat-Fittings-S160-Gunport-Bronzed-Metal-10x11mm-AMNS160.html#SID=3199

https://syrenshipmodelcompany.com/laser-cut-ship-model-fittings.php#!/9-32-long-Belaying-Pins-7-4-mm-1-64-scale-25-per-package/p/758201032
 

Welcome aboard Stephen, or as the Doric speakers in your part of the world say ‘Fit like’

For those not from these shores Doric is an old Scottish dialect often spoke in the NE of Scotland 

Gary

I think you are describing the steam ducting that sat above the stove and transmitted the fumes etc. to the open deck via a grating.

It was metallic - tin or zinc from memory. Probably whitewashed like the interior hull sides.

Gary

Welcome aboard Martin, good to have another NE lad join.

Gary - from sunny Hartlepool 

1 hour ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

The differences tend to be fairly small but there are quite a few of them. I'm only noticing it as I'm reworking this area at the moment and was having moments where I thought I was going mad, through seeing things on some photos that are different to what I thought I saw earlier (because they are on different sides)! But as you say, all those refits/repairs would explain it.

 

Poor old lady - she's once more looking a bit like that McGowan photo. I still have a 'free' visit to take, as tickets are good for repeat visits within a year, but there's hardly anything left of the exterior right now. All in a good cause though.

 

The successive tiers of the galleries should noticeably decrease as they rise up the ship, the current interpretation loses this vital aesthetic feature with little differentiation between tiers, much to the ship’s detriment in my opinion.

I would seriously consider using that return ticket to visit whilst she doesn’t have her skin on, it’s not often you get to see so much of the exposed framing close up. Also, the temporary support structures internally used to transfer the load whilst beams are removed are of interest in themselves. Collectively it’s not the kind of thing that will be seen again in our lifetimes (so says the nerdy structural engineering bit of me 🤓).

Gary

I’m afraid what Victory has now is the abysmal 1980’s reconstruction, they have none of the elegance of Trafalgar, or even the 1920’s reconstruction.

The image below is from Bugler’s 1966 as-reconstructed drawings.

The current quarter galleries are slab sided in my view and far too upright. Heller have them correct.

Gary

If you haven’t already done so it is worthwhile watching ‘The Model Shed’ 1/200 build on YouTube, there are a few pitfalls he picks up on that are worthwhile avoiding.

Agree on the decking as well, I have the 1/200 Hood sat awaiting a new deck as the one I had from Pontos lifted, unfortunately I had smoothed / sanded off the planking so painting isn’t now an option.

Gary

Positions 3 & 4 are in addition to 1 & 2, they were used to train or point the gun further around, the tackle being transferred from position 1 or 2 to facilitate this.  This bit is from memory, I think they appeared at the back end of the 18th Century.

Gary

Some interesting Market Data can be inferred from the assumption that Occre are approaching their ‘limited 1,000 sales’, and Artesania Latina seem to be hot on their heels, which shows the kit market to be buoyant.

30 minutes ago, Fritzlindsay said:

John,

I did more research and the frames in the kit are incorrectly for Victory in several aspects, including ignoring using scarphs instead of chocks.  From what I could find scarphs were used instead of chocks in earlier centuries on large ship frame building.

Fritz

Just to jump in.  Artesania Latina have followed the John McKay HMS Victory Anatomy of the Ship, he uses a mix of scarph and chock joints at different cross sections along the hull, even on the same frames, but he uses scarphs only for the mid-section frames.  I doubt McKay knew what was actually used as it is mostly covered up unless under reconstruction as she currently is, and there will be an element of conjecture.  Having visited the ship several times during this period of reconstruction all frame joints that I have witnessed have been scarphed, albeit these are all above the waterline.

Gary

Nice work.

Watch out for the gunport and entry port frames, being around 1mm they are delicate and the ears that locate on to the dowels are easily snapped off!   Fortunately they have plenty of other contact points.

Gary

1 hour ago, Thukydides said:

 He says that alternating single and double treenails were used. Maybe something like this:

The 1805 edition is the same, and given these editions look backwards to recent / current practices it is probably reliable for Diana.

Gary

Check out AL’s YouTube channel, there is an unboxing video and at last count 14 assembly tutorial videos, with more being added, it will give you a good idea of what you will get.

Gary

At €1,299.99 AL need to push this through their local stockists outside the EU to keep the cost down. Here in the UK if we import from AL we will pay an extra 20% in customs duty (essentially VAT), plus customs fees from the courier. Could make it prohibitive for some who may otherwise be interested.

Gary

So it’s another guessing game, I’ll play - HMS Victory 1:72 scale to compliment your cross section.

Looks the same as the pump configuration for L’Unite, see photo, upper or gun deck and lower or berth deck.

Perhaps for expediency they just kept the same pumps.

But if this is the fictional Surprise then I’m sure Chain Pumps are mentioned, or perhaps I’m just thinking of the film!

Gary

1 hour ago, chris watton said:

A little update.

 

I have been working on my 18th kits for the past 3 months. However, something came up, and I have decided to put that project on hold for a while.

 

So my 18th kit will be a 64th scale model of HMS Surprise - This is definite, and will start work on this immediately. 

 

The model will be of the fictional version, so long guns instead of carronades.
 

Chris,

I’d start a separate thread for this, you’re going to get inundated as all Aubrey fabs start dusting off their books and sift them for clues as to what she looked like according to O’Brian 😁

Gary 

We have had a similar enquiry previously, several Trafalgar artists depict Victory with proto-fairleads at the break of the Poop. Unfortunately we arrived at no answer then, but what we can now perhaps say is that their function was military if the above was fitted when a cadet ship and not later as a merchantman.

I’d love to see this solved.

Below is an extract from Turners Trafalgar from the Victory’s Mizzenmast.

Gary

My assumption would be that the ropes from the Capstan would run through the Top Tackle Scuttles up to the Main Yards for performing the heavy lifting operations. Not only boats, but serving the Main and Fore hatches moving loads such as guns, ships stores, as well as upper masting and yards.

Gary

Welcome aboard Peter, just down the coast from you at Hartlepool.

Has anyone in your group checked for the existence of ships records or logs that may still exist?  The Carpenters logs and returns would be the most appropriate as they should record details of painting and consumables used. Probably a long shot but The National Archives and the National Maritime Museum are the best sources.

Gary

8 hours ago, Admiral Beez said:

Thanks.  I don’t see the crows feet on most Napoleonic era models.  Did HMS Victory ever have them?

There is circumstantial evidence that Victory carried crows feet at Trafalgar.

The painter Clarkson Stanfield when preparing his ‘Trafalgar’ painting produced a first draft for comment.  The commentators in question were Trafalgar veterans including Victory’s captain Hardy.  This initial draught showed no crows feet, but the final version included them. This obvious change suggests that this was a correction made on input from those veterans and points to a strong possibility of Victory having them fitted at Trafalgar.

Gary