Mirabell61

Hi Nils, I've just recalled that Daniel (Dafi) did some extensive work on working the anchor cables, here's a link to his posts which show the arrangement of the cables around the riding bitts, and running down thro' the hatches.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/76-hms-victory-by-dafi-to-victory-and-beyond/page-10

 

Writing in his book Arming and fitting Brian Lavery comments that sixth rates had no separate orlop deck amidships so they carried their cables on top of the barrels in the hold, which must have been inconvenient at times. Smaller vessels stowed them where they could, sometimes directly on the bottom of the hold.

 

Neither of these options seem very good for either the condition of the barrels or the drying out of the cables.

 

When underway I understand that the anchor cables were unrove and the hawse holes blocked up, and when stored the cables were loosely coiled.

 

The stored cables took up a lot of room within a ship; Lavery writes that they took up around 2/5th of the length of a ship, and  in the ffm Vol 1V  a standard cable length of 720' is given. At 1.64 scale this would equate to a massive 342cm of coiled cable running each side of the centre line of the ship.

 

Remember that the anchor cables were not directly attached to the  capstans when hauling them in and out, they were attached to smaller messenger cables.

 

A good reference source is The Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War 1600 - 1815 by Brian Lavery.

 

Hope this helps.

 

B.E.

Thank you so much B.E.

for your Kind Response and that wonderful link to Dafi`s lovely log of the Victory concerning anchor cables, that is more than I had ever expected...., and also for your sentenses olut ouf Bruian Lavery`s literature.

All very inspiring, and I find a very nice Detail (anchor cable rigging) on a 18th century model

Nils

Nils, hope this helps.  The anchor rope would be secured around the riding bitts as in picture below (just behind the forward platform, although they are not technically riding bitts on the Snake the principle is the same).  The cable then passes through soem holes in one the grating over one of the hatches.  The rope would then feed down onto a lower deck called the 'cable tier' where the rope would have been coiled.  It was probably a very smelly place given the wet mud that would be covering the rope.

 

Thank you very much Jason,

I now know what the riding bitts in that Position are mainly for, also nice explaining Picture of yours..

Nils

Nigel thank you,

yes I think it was a good Suggestion and decision to work over the Stern Counter... I`m happy with the result

Nils

Big improvement on the stern counter Nils, looks good, and some intricate work going on there beneath the Fo'csle.

 

re the anchor cables:-

 

if you are going to rig the anchors the cables enter thro' the hawse holes, are taken around the riding bitts, and then lead back to the Main hatch where they descend to the cable tier above the hold. Often on models notches are seen taken out of the forward side of the Main Hatch grating to allow passage of the cable.

 

In terms of your Pegasus with open views thro' the hull, I'm not quite sure of the exact position of the cable tier, I don't have that information, but I will look further thro' my references and see what I can come up with.

 

B.E.

Thank you B.E.

it would be real great if you have any Information, is there perhaps an Illustration scetch or scheme in one of your good books that could perhaps be scaned in.

"riding bitts and cable Tier" are complete new english naval words for me, would Need to look those up, probably a scetch would explain.

I was just wondering where those thick and slippery anchor cables are left after the hawse holes, and if they should not be rigged. I asume that at least two of the four anchors are / were rigged during the voyage.

Nils

Hi Juergen,

thank you for looking in and for your words...

Nils

Hi Popeye,

thanks for your comment, the "Club rack" is a good one......, but did you know that in the 60 ties the commander (also a riding enthusiast) of the Gorch Fock, I think it was in New York harbour, was riding a horse on the deck...

Nils

Thank you Mark,

I see you are speaking out of experience...., and you`re so right I am constantly thinking it over twice, what is to be fitted on next, for exactly that reason. Am working on the galley stove at the Moment.

I still need Information where the anchor ropes are guided to when they come in through the round anchor rope holes in the bow, and at which Point they are led into their coil rope locker (somewhere under the gun deck deck ?)

Nils

Build log part 29

Now starting with fitting out forecastle beneath and on top of that deck

Fitting the first two Posts that also take up the bowsprit counterplate

the gundeck is cut away, wide under the forecastle deck as well..., to allow view from above to lower decks

tried to gain standhight for the Crew here as well (as good as possible)

Access to the forecastle deck shall be over the hatch-opening on starboard deck side (per Stair, the deckbeam shall be cut away at that Position. The stair shall fit nicely in between the first two gun tackles

the two masterboards fitted in place

view underneath...

deck openings for gratings, stovechimney

the planking of the deck will be done later on

Build log part 30 to follow....

Nils

Build log part 28

here are some changes to the lower section to the Stern Appeal...

(initiative born by fellow members)

this was the look before...

and here before...

and here after the change

Close ups are always risky, but I trust it`s OK to Show...

the combinattion of partially cut away portside planking and actual outside bulwark decor above.

That Stringer on portside just above the wales will have to take on the chainplate fastening bolts later on

Build log part 29 to follow....

Nils

Pete,

It's coming along. I'm pleased, although there are elements I'd do differently. I love your Muscongus Bay boats; you certainly know how to put those together. How was the move? I hope you didn't have to go too far.

 

Nils, Thanks, but your Bohuslan is the standard; a truly beautiful piece of work. I loved your use of plumbing fixtures for ventilators. I saw it too late to try it myself. Sometimes I wish I had more stuff on the deck like you do. It makes things more interesting to look at. From my model railroad days I remember the old saying, "the clutter is the clincher".

 

Tom

Thanks Tom,

your Vinal Haven Steamer is a real nostalgic eyecatcher, very well done

as I usualy do not build from kit there is always the question swiming up, how and from what shall I do it to suit the Chosen scale.... ?

When roaming over flea-markets or simular market stands I always have eyes open for things that with a slight Change could look like or brought into final shape for Fitting I possibly would Need one day, especialy interesting would be a bin full of old brass and copper waste parts, for example like candle holder parts for stand plate pedestals, tooth wheels, plumbing elbows, and others, etc...

Nils

Very nice looking Sloop Yamsterman,

I love that colorscheme, White, black, natural Wood...

Nils

lovely work on the steering kinematic Danny

Nils

beautiful timber-joining Mark,

in all the HMS Druid is coming very well in Progress

Nils

rigging and sails look great Peter

also shrouds and ratlines well set..

Nils

very impressive work Jamie !,

a delight to to have the first time look into your build...

Nils

Hello Peter,

I`m realy happy with the stern-solution as on the mock up pic and with an additional thin rail to cap the black stripe Background.

It was good that you had contacted me, otherwise B.E. could not bring out his good idea for some decoration in that "idle area", Thanks again Peter.

Also thanks for the link to Amati and sharing your experience with them. I`ll give them a mail..

Nils

Perfect B.E.

your advice is well appreciated, I`ll do it that way..., thanks again

Nils

Hello B.E.

here only a rough photomontage of the thought....

Nils

as if it were to be..., These two decorations were srplus on the etched sheet anyhow

Thanks very much Brian, Frank, Janos, Patrick, Grant, Nils, Mark, Pat, Steve, John (welcome back), Spyglass, Dale and Albert .

 

Good to see you have your Acetone problem sorted Spyglass - thanks for giving him the info Grant, I've been away on one of my extended holidays again .

 

 

Roughtree Rail

 

The final Rail to be fitted is the Roughtree Rail, also called the Quarter Rail. This rail is bolted to the Swivel Gun Mounts on the Quarterdeck, and also has an iron brace near it's fore end.

 

I made the fore end from a piece of wide stock, cut on the scroll saw. A much easier way than trying to bend it into shape :

 

Roughtree Rail 001.jpg

 

Roughtree Rail 002.jpg

 

Roughtree Rail 003.jpg

 

  Danny

 

Danny,

the quarterrail Looks very nicely, also the metal supporting in the front section, it rounds up the Quarterdeck sides perfectly together with the swivel gunposts.

Nils

Good day B.E.

Thanks for your words,

I`ve also been thinking of something to be spaced in the rather wide empty space at Level of the wales and above before. Your thought and idea (as well as Peters comment) now gives me encouragement to look out for a suitable Kind of decoration to be added there, that would`nt overload the Stern too much.

Perhaps a black stripe background in height of the wales will do, with a brass decoration in repeatable type of the side frieses decoration on it, to match with the System in Color and make.

How would you think about that ? and based on the initiative of fellow members Flyer,and B.E.(great idea!)

Nils

Thanks guys, much appreciated.  Tom, I keep generating lots of reasons to be humble, but at least the glue blobs will be planked and painted over.     Are you bringing the Vinal Haven to New London?  I'd love to see it in person! 

 

As per request, here are some more pics:

100_0737.JPG

100_0740.JPG

100_0741.JPG

100_0742.JPG

 

I also started making the keel and centerboard. The tapering keel is an interesting feature that I wanted to replicate, cutting the centerboard slot should have been very straightforward, but it took me 3 tries...

100_0747.JPG

100_0745.JPG

Finally, here is the hull with the cockpit rough- cut out.  I made the rear portion with the frames all the way across the top of the deck. This made it easier to register the top to a center-line, made it more twist-resistant during construction and allowed easier fairing of the compound curves in the deck surface.

Besides, it was fun hacking through it once I had it glued together.

100_0749.JPG

Lovely lobster smack Bob,

I love your Framework on it, and very well done indeed

Nils

sounds very interesting Nigel,

would like to see how it works out..

Nils

Elia,

first my birthay greetings, enjoy your Special day and have fun..

Coming to your build, it is stunning to watch this ship growing on your slipway. A dream of a gloucester schooner with its wonderful lines, your single planking, your workmanship, this all makes ones heart beat faster...,

Shall stay tuned

very, very well done !!!

Nils

I`m curious for the next sequences Nigel,

from keellaying to date , an exciting build..., Setting standards

Nils

Build log part 27

starboard side first metal Support bracket for step platform

second bracket mounted and brought to alignment

platform fit test and weight testing

check out guns placed underneath and ladder inbetween (to be shortend accordingly)

Still Need to do the same experience on port side

Arrangement of chainpump crank handle and bearing supports

view through quarter badge window. Unfortunately the first and the last two links of the Girlande broke off and unfindable got lost somewhere...

I first wanted to decorate the cabins with furniture, but I think I`ll leave it as is (less is more)

Build log part 28 to follow...

Nils