Thunder
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Everything posted by Thunder
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Hi, it may be worth checking something before moving on. Have you removed too much material from the bottom of bulkheads 2 and 3? it will be worth putting a piece of the first and second planking at these points to check that they will extend down to the walnut keel. you don't want a bit of the ply false keel showing. Checking now will save a lot of heart ache and work later. They will extend further down at this area due to the angles of the bulkheads but worth a check.
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- lady nelson
- victory models
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Need Community's Input on Best Kit Manufacturer
Thunder replied to Bandue's topic in Wood ship model kits
Hi, What is most important to you, historical accuracy, good plans and instructions or quality materials? If I was going for historical accuracy I would say Victory models or Caldercraft. If you don't want nearest fit parts but want them designed specifically for your kit then I would say Caldercraft. For best timber I would say Corel, Amati or Victory. For plans I would say Victory. I have no experience of American kit manufacturers so, as would every one else's unless they have experience of all manufacturers, my views are restricted. Kits I can compare are Corel, Mantua, Panart, Sergal, Victory, Revell, Jotika/caldercraft, Billings, Ark, Artesania Latina, euromodel, constructo, Mamoli, and model shipwright as I have kits by these but they vary per model. I would pick the subject you are interested in and then compare the offerings from each.- 10 replies
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Hello Hyposphagma, thank you for that, it will be very useful. The kit is very different to model shipways, judging by what you have sent me, obviously not derived from that one. Photographs of scratch built and other model makes seem very different to the Model Shipways kit especially in regard to hull proportions. Is this what builders have found or is it just the kit art photographs that give this impression.
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It does have English translations on the box sides and on the plans, it is only the instruction book that only has German. Makes me think that it did at one time have an English booklet as well. A shame because, judging by diagrams, it looks to be in-depth. Does anyone know what other kits they did and if they were brought up by another company? Could this be the Mamoli kit for instance?
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Revell Ratlesnake 1779 I came across this kit by chance and would like more information on it. I have been able to find very little searching the internet. I believe it to be a re-badge of a 'Hegi' kit or 'Tris'. I have found photographs of the kit with both of these kit manufacturers some where in the instructions. There is a date of 1978 0n the box. Not sure of scale but kit is 685mm long by 465 high. It is double planked with the usual plank on bulkhead construction. It comes with 5 sheets of plans and an instruction book which, unfortunately for me, is in German. Materials supplied are comparable with most of the modern Italian manufacturers although I may have some re-working of bulkheads to do and plywood sheets are not laser cut so will test my scroll saw cutting abilities.
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Hi, I have found the box out, it is so similar to the photographs above but on the green segmented section Revell has been moulded over the 'Tris'. Interestingly, I have only found two references to the kit on the internet. One still has 'Tris' in the moulding but box is Revell and the other, and mine, has references to a company called 'Hegi'.
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yes, Instructions are all in German but is not a bad kit, came across it by chance and have been trying to find out more details but in vain. I will post photos when I get a chance. Kit number was H-4110.
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Hi, I used the Anatomy of the ship book to build my airfix bounty and am sure there is a table in the back giving all rope and cable sizes for each item of the rig along with the block size. Then it was a bit of maths to get the thread size. The Revell shrouds are awful and you will find it both easier and more rewarding to make your own. At that scale (Airfix kit, I believe is 1:87) I would keep the chain plate, cut off the dead eyes above ( and put to one side) and bits below, drill holes through where the dead eyes were, run the shrouds down from the mast heads, through the holes in the chain plate and into holes drilled into the hull where the bits below the chain plate would of attached. Then glue the kit deadeye moulded assemblies onto the shrouds. It will look even better if you can file a small groove into the back of the moulded dead eyes to except the thread. This method, calculating the threads required and making of own deadeyes if you should want to go even further, are explain in the Noel C L Hackney books I mentioned on your other thread. Thunder.
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My advice would be to pick up the airfix Victory, Mayflower or Cutty sark and have a search for the guide books written by Noel C L Hackney that went with them. You then get a thorough guide to building with suggested modifications to improve. You also get full rigging plans and a method of completing the rigging for any ship going forward. If you get all three books then you get a guide for the three main era's of sail history. I still use these methods even with my wooden models. My favourite model was Airfix's Bounty. Not because of itss accuracy but it provided the best basics for a real good kit bash. I will try and get some photos on when I get home. Thunder. Here are the Photographs, The victory is a kit I built 20 years ago using the book below:
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I have a Revell Rattle snake kit that is a re-badge of this manufacturers.
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I tend to clove hitch up to about 1:90. At smaller scales than that I tend to simply place the ratline across the shrouds and glue. However, I will scale down the thread as well. Try the black silks used for fly fishing, the thread used for fly tying must be as fine as human hair. When gluing I will create the down ward curves as I work along using super glue. Just be mindful of the harmful fumes. You can of course do this with the standard knot method but I have found that the curve caused by the knot is difficult to overcome. The standard knot is ok for attaching to the first shroud, assuming working from the left, as it curls off correctly. If you then clove hitch the rest. Try it, I don't think the knot size is that noticeable.
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Hi, The advantage of the clove hitch knot is that the ratline leaves the shroud at the same angle on both sides. With the standard knot it tends to go downwards on one side and upwards on the other creating a wave pattern across the shrouds rather than a natural hanging shape. However, saying that, it is hardly noticeable on this build! Thunder.
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Hi, this is a great kit, I also built the Superbe which is very simular and makes up to an excellent model.
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Hello Philo, Are the drawings behind your model on the last two pages pictures form the instructions? I have seen one of these kits online and am tempted to purchase. It is of another ship and have only seen the box artwork. I would like to get an idea from your kit whether the box artwork and instructions are a fair representation of what can be produced with the parts. What feel did you get regarding this? Can I also ask about the bulkheads provided, I know from the text that yours may of been damaged by the earlier 'breaking down' of the kit, but it looks like some may be incorrectly sized, badly cut or in the wrong order. Is this how the kit provided them. It gives an idea of the kit quality. I hope you enjoyed your build and are moving on to the next member of your fleet. Adrian
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Inspiring build!! In your opinion which of the kits is the best in regards to accuracy and quality?
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- cutty sark
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I certainly wouldn't risk a soldering iron near the hull, it can only lead to disaster. I wouldn't like to drill them out either. Could you cut them off leaving a pin protruding? Then have a hole in the end of your chain plate to go over the pin. Finish the top of the pin with a drop of cyno gel glue so that once dry it looks like the head of a fixing, paint black and job done. The chain plate should come down to the hull then be fixed with two such fixings running down the hull at same angle to the mast as the shroud, so if worried about fixing strength, the second fixing should cope, any tighter and you will warp the plastic mast anyway.
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- plastic
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Great model, very well executed. These little pyro kits are ace!
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- plastic
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So, instead of starting from the whale down and then from the keel up, you would start from the whale down, then from the next line up, then from that line down, then from the next line up, and so on. I think that would even more easily and keep the lay of the planks in a more natural condition. What do you think? I think what you have described above is more or less the way that a real ship would of been planked. Saying that, I always plank on these lines but it rarely makes it easier. My order of planking is, Wale Positions, Garboard strake, main wale up, I then divide the lower hull into sections with naturally placed planks and plank in sections removing the original 'naturally placed' planks as I go. Divide areas by plank width to get amount of planks needed at widest part. You can then calculate taper of each end of plank. Even better use proportional dividers. Adrian
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I have had the same from caldercraft but after ringing them it was replaced with some of much better quality. So they do have it which says something for their quality control.
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I love that sea, she will struggle to make headway there, really got her head down beating against the tide.
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Hi, I have done many Heller kits and only sent for parts once. They sent replacement but this was 20 years ago. What use to annoy me was the duplication of parts to fabricate another kit for little expense. Left you wondering which if any were representative of a real ship. With regard to sails, you will often see he main sail set but the fore furled. Erhaps you could do this.
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I wouldn't worry about that so much. With laser cut you will have black eding to clean up but for the bulkheads you can use this to stop you removing too much when shaping them to the curve of the hull. I would pick the kit taking into account your interest, hull shape having easy lines, overall quality and instructions.
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Good choice, I would have to look at other ships in the same class to change the name though.
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- Caldercraft
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Oh dear you have some fiddly work to do. Might be worth making a jig with pins in a board set to the deadeye spacing and mast height. Then you can make them and apply in one piece. It won't be accurate to how should be rigged but your order is out now anyway. Supply is as intricate as most kits just one less mast or more detail. If you have successfully built this then I would just take what you fancy. Hull shape of ships like the Endeavour would be tricky but not too much different. Something like Granado or Caroline?
- 75 replies
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- Caldercraft
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Bryan, I would consider doing your shrouds and ratlines on now while you still have finger room as your stays and back stays will get in the way. Also, if you look up the ' order of dressing the masts and yards' rigging to me and you, shrouds went round the head first before stays and back stays, however, fore stays are useful to prevent the shrouds pulling the mast out of align whilst rigging. This is something I learnt with plastic kits where I would rig temporary fore stays to higher up the mast doubling and then rig them correctly after the shrouds were in place.
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