Thunder

To be honest knots are one area i always promise myself that I will improve. If you have the patience a seizing would look better as this avoids the lump of the knot. A lot of the time i resort to a simple granny knot locked in place with superglue. I always put a small amount of the glue on an old tile and apply with a cocktail stick. Bees waxing the thread seems to make the knot hold better until glued.

Thank you for the reply Chris. Wish I realised and asked sooner as I have rigged the yard without Jeers now. It is a shame most books concentrate on the ship rig and have little data for these, the most numerous type of craft. What are your thoughts on which way the braces led and if led forward did they cross over? I assume they crossed over to the opposite fore shroud to allow the yard to be even further braced round. Between a mizzen and main this might have been necessary but the main and fore on cruiser have enough distance between them to not need this. Perhaps for a bit of variety you could offer rigging instructions for Flirt as a Snow, with the additional trysail mast.

Hi, I placed as per your green cross. However, i built the Victory over 25 years ago and not sure why I came to that conclusion. I had both of those books but mainly worked to the Hackney book.

Now I come to where I am stuck. I am at the point of rigging the Main Yard braces. On a brig of this period this was classed as the cross jack yard. For English naval brigs I always thought that the cross jack yard carried no sail. I had planned to rig the braces forward, as on the Mizzen mast of a ship rigged vessel. i.e. crossing from larboard to the starboard shrouds of the main mast. Obviously in a brig this would be from main mast cross jack yard to fore mast shrouds. However, on a ship rigged vessel, this was more to do with the spread of the masts and the angles to make good handling. As soon as I started to rig this I noticed this would not be an issue with the positioning of the masts on the cruiser. This has led me to investigate further and of all the books I have it leads me to conclude that I am correct that the main lower yard was indeed a cross jack yard and that it did not carry a sail. The main sail was a Gaff sail extending over the transom. I further have read that the braces led aft for Royal Naval Ships. They led forward for merchants and other navies. This puts me at odds with all the builds on this site and with the latest models by Vanguard. I am only talking of the period before 1796 as soon after 1800 this did change. This still puts me at odds with the above. Before this period a vessel with two masts and a sail on the main mast would have a shorter gaff sail and be called a 'Snow'. The gaff sail would be laced to an effective mizzen set up to rear of the main. I cannot believe every one else has this wrong but have you all just followed kit instructions. Remember research following an American brig rigging would not be correct for an English vessel. So what is correct: option 1 - crossjack yard braces rigged forward and crossing over from larboard to starboard on the foremast shrouds. option 2 - crossjack yard leading forward to foremast but no cross. option 3 - main yard arm ( so having a sail) leading forward without the cross ( as most have rigged here) option 4 - Main yard with sail, braces leading forward with the cross. option 5 - main yard leading forward but each side of yardarm having braces set to both sides of foremast rigging. Have seen one of this kit rigged like this and does not work when tryng to brace yard to wind. option 6 - crossjack yard braces leading aft (this is what my research suggests but is at odds with everyone. Option 7 - main yard with sail but braces leading aft ( this is shown for all Snow rigs) When i say that most have allowed for option 3 i have assumed they are allowing for a sail by the fact that clewgarnets sheets and tacks are rigged. These would attach to the corner of the sail. photos shows me starting to rig forward before I stopped. I really do hope that I can get the debate I need here and that Chris can demonstrate where he got his rig for Speedy and Flirt as that research would be a great help.

Decided to bring the log up to date. Partly because I need advise or should I say start a debate. Anyway up date first. Since last updated I have rigged the following items: Topmast Stays Topmast Preventer Stays T'gallant Shrouds T'gallant backstays T'gallant Stays Bowsprit horses Martingales Horses and Flemish horses Spritsail Halyards Jibboom Guy Pendants Boomkin shrouds Lower mast slings Jeers truss pendants Tackle pendants inner and outer tricing lines Lifts Driver boom rigging Gaff Guy rigging Update photographs below:

Margin plank looking good there. For the nibbling i would make simple. Plank should not be more than half width at the end so lay in place butting against last plank, mark half width point on plank, then mark where on side of plank at the point the margin plank is revealed. Remove plank and cut to the waste side of this line. Lay back in place and with a very sharp scalpel cut along plank edge to remove portion of margin plank. You should now have an exact fit. Two thinks to check, wood grain direction on margin so does not drag scalpel away from plank edge and where plank falls at the joggling joints of the sections of margin planks. The second is more for aesthetic reasons.

Hi, Had a quick look and did make some notes as I built it. The below might be relevant to the stage you are at. Of course i might have got these wrong. Keel walnut section to short for the plywood piece by 4mm. Not sure what I did about this as looks fine without joints. Found keel slots on bulkheads 1 to 3 not symmetrical or vertical - worth checking because if don't correct hull will look twisted. Found bulkhead 5 oversize and needed material removing and bulkhead 6 needed material adding. Installed additional support to bulkhead 6 for the false deck to stop it pushing down. Hopefully that will help with your early stages. Like I said just a heads up, your kit may be different or i might have got it wrong. You can see below where I have added to the bottom edge of bulkhead 6.

Great kit and great choice, I really enjoyed this build. Also had best quality of timber out of all my Caldercraft kits.

I would say you have to consider what kits are on the market by other manufacturers. Going by this and taking into consideration the history of the top ship, both historic and in films / fiction, I would say the 38. A 44, however, is not covered by any one else. However, your kits are setting a new standard. If I had not started the Cruiser I would have sold for the Flirt Kit. I would probably consider selling the Pegasus that I have in stock for the Sphinx and my Diana kit if you were to build one of the frigates. I know these are old projects of yours but now you are doing this for yourself you are no longer tied by the company you work for regarding quality, you only have to consider cost. If I had to for go two kits to have one of your higher quality kits then I would be far happier. I wish you had revealed the Duchess a few weeks ago, I was 50 last week and would of asked my wife to give me a late present to get that beauty.

I have it shown with a jacob's chuck fitted but the collets are actually better.

Hi, I have the 250m lathe and the tool slide will lift by simply raising by releasing the clamp that also does the angle. I made a new piece that was longer so didn't have to move along whilst doing the mast. It took me a while to understand what you meant by plastic tubes as purchased 3 jaw and 4 jaw chucks for mine and a tail stock drill chuck that replaces the rotating centre. The circular saw I wish had a bed to alter the height of the blade as then you could make gratings with it or cut slots in wood without penetrating all the way through. My disk sander has really been abused, it has been used for DIY as well as I find powerful for many tasks. I did all the metal beading for the edges of the tiles when doing the bathroom. The Proxxon tool i love most is the TBH post drill. With the KT 70 Micro compound table it is good for drilling holes at precise spacings. I have also pushed its limits using it to perform the square sections at the top of masts.

Hi Wahka, The walnut is very flaky that Caldercraft provides, It might be worth considering a sanding sealer or varnish to seal the grain before sanding. Can i just check the photograph of your mast. It looks like the top and the crosstrees for the topmast are the opposite way round. Have you got one of them facing the wrong way? Looks to be the crosstrees judging by the mast cap. Build coming along really nice. Would be a shame to paint over that planking of the hull when gone to such efforts. Adrian.

Back from Holiday. Decking now painted. Can anyone help with the authenticity of this model?

Hi, Unfortunately the answer is not straight forward, as I assume you have realised. I will take it you are talking about the second layer of planking as it does not really matter with the first layer and you could just follow the kit instructions. However, I tend to lay the first plank for even this first layer at the position of the wale. The reason I do this really answers your second question regarding the Wale's position. Basically the wale position needs to be taken from the plans and its position will be different depending on the ship in question. I find this easier to mark on the keel section and then transfer out to the edge of the bulkheads to give an accurate position. Once you have this marked you have a datum for all your other planking and gun ports etc.

U.S.S. Alliance by Pyro. Bit of a story about why I am building this kit. Missed two holidays this year due to lockdown. Third holiday lockdown eased one week before. Both my wife and I still not completely comfortable going out so chose a small kit to do whilst away. Holiday was for my 50th Birthday. Wife booked as a surprise 18 months ago and is a small cottage right on the tracks of a heritage railway in Somerset England. Unfortunately no locomotives running and needs £350,000 before can start again. Understandably she is very upset as spoilt her surprise. A long time since I have done a plastic kit, (although have two others up to rigging stage), so this has been a story of disasters so far. No where to get supplies to replace defective items. I manage to pack every thing in the box with the kit that I thought I would need. Or I thought I had. Some photographs of the kit, sorry started before thinking to post on here. I Brought on impulse after seeing on ebay and the kit arrived day before leaving for the holiday. I have done some research but cannot decide what it is i am building. Kit History is below: She is obviously not this vessel. The first Alliance was a frigate and would not have an Engine or prop. Gun arrangement is very strange and i have not been able to find other examples of this. The second Alliance was built in 1875 ( which means I have placed in wrong forum area) but not sure if this is that vessel either. I think you will have to make your own minds up. I must stress, don't expect wonders with this build as only for fun. It may also be abandoned for a while was I am back at home. I have put hull together and installed some deck furniture and started to prime the deck. First issue is that the kit gives part numbers but none on the moulds. My first disasters are that the super glue I brought with me has gone off and the white paint is like treacle. Not going well so far!! Then I noticed that I had forgot my Thinners and mixing pallet for washing the deck. - Not going well so far.

Hi, I would purchase the Noel CL Hackney book for the Airfix kit Mayflower and use the rigging instructions from that. Best step by step with modifications by far. I used for the Airfix Golden Hind and Revel kits.

Hi, I think you are being extremely ambitious to have your first build as the HMS Bounty. It has one of the hardest and unforgiven bows for planking.

It would be nice if all of his ships were back together but understand on space. one good place to put a ship on display without taking any space is the wall facing you as you come down your stairs. Then you get too enjoy each morning as you come down. Not many places in Staffordshire, Kedleston hall just over the border in Derbyshire did have some ships on display but not sure if still the case.

I am assuming you are in the UK due to the passport, or, due to having it out, you have had to travel overseas to get to the house, hence why the travel dilemma. If you can give basic area there may be a model boat club in the area that can help or we may know of a local museum. Lots of small seaside museums in the U.K. that might take this. Some have kit built in them and sure they would prefer this scratch built model which would show the type coastal trading vessel. They often put plaques on with builder and donation / owner details. Then you can visit the museum and see others enjoying it.

This was also my first wooden build. I just looked and I noticed that the canon, if installed would damage the shrouds so modified. I think the only other modifications made were to the rig and masts using my own dimensions and rigging plan and to the head rails

So often we have people come on here with a similar story or wanting to know what something is worth, hoping no doubt to find out it is worth a fortune. Usually, when you look, it is an awful seaside souvenir, badly made and worthless. However, what you have here looks to be a skilfully made scale model that your grandfather took a lot of care over. For that very reason I think you should keep it. I wish I had more from my grandad that had a real reason to remember him by, you have memories of watching him build this. As for transporting I would put it on your passengers lap or trap the hull upright between two cushions. Masts in free air.

I suppose as the Cruiser class was the largest class of ships ever in the Royal Navy it would also span over a long period of time so no rights or wrong. I also have the 'Building Plank on Frame Ship' Models by Ron McCarthy. For this book he is building the earlier Cruizer class. He has the main mast and preventer as your model but the main topmast stays are main over preventer. Although the run is slightly different again. As I am building with long guns instead of Carronades I was going to make the rig to as originally launched but with all the contradictory information it is very difficult to know what is right. You would normally work on the principal that as you rig further up or out then the rigging lines get finer.

Conway's ship types book, Bomb Vessels by Chris Ware is worth taking a look at. It has line drawings, profile and deck plans for her when converted to a fire ship and as a Bomb vessel. It also has line drawings and painting as she was converted for arctic exploration. Unfortunately though she was ship rigged in all these forms and hull shape very different to the kit. As a Bomb there was 5 gun ports per side. This was my first kit and I did some research at the time. I found a representation of a British Bomb Ketch in 'Fighting ships of the Royal Navy' by E.H.H. Archibald which is a ketch with identical shape and stern to the kit. Racehorse was a captured French ship and converted to a bomb but never designed as one. Carcass, on the other hand, was designed as a bomb and converted to artic exploration. She sailed with Racehorse and it is this ship that Nelson was in. I assume Carcass was not good for sales as a kit. When I researched Carcass she did not fit the design either but she was of the class 'Infernal'. So I researched infernal and found an earlier Infernal that was a member of the 'Thunder' class that did have similar lines. Hence I re-named my kit Thunder. Another option is a beautiful Ketch rigged sloop of war of which there is a model in the NMM. HMS Speedwell see photographs in 'Sloop of War' by Ian McLaughlan. You will recognise the stern immediately She did get converted to a fireship for a spell but nothing mentioning a bomb..

Thank you Joe, you couldn't have answered at a better time as I was searching for your build. You have rigged as the kit instructions. So the details in the Brig Irene book matches the kit but not Lees. What era is the Brig Irene? I have just noticed that I have done the Main mast stays different to you. Both my main and preventer going to the bowsprit where as your preventer goes to a block on the foremast. Lees puts your method as ending in 1793. Does the Irene in the book date before this? Just looked at the Petersson book and this has Main topmast stay over the Preventer. Now we are 2-2.

Have now done the topmast standing backstays and moved to the topmast stays. The Cruiser kit does not suggest a fore topsail preventer which I am going to add. However, it does show a main topsail preventer stay. This leads to my next question. Kit shows the main topmast preventer stay rigged above the topmast stay. Topmast stay leads forward and down to a block behind fore mast just below main mast cheeks. Preventer shown running forward and down to a block half way between main mast top and cap. This is exactly as Lee's has it other than the other way round - main stay leads to below cap and preventer to cheeks. Question is, which is correct? Suppose another trawl through books is on the cards.