Bare feet on deck???

[Izzy Madd]

Slight variation of question,

 

But in all the illustrations and written work mentioning the sailors feet. They are alway depicted as barefoot.

 

But when they bought up the Mary Rose. A ship some 300 years older they found numerous leather shoes. Now I realise the more senior crew may have had shoe nd the marines I assume had boots. But there seem to be far too many shoes to be just for the senior seamen.

 

So is this idea of sailor running around barefoot a myth? As the number of injuries sustained without even the most basic shoe would be far greater. If not just from the huge amount of splinters flying around in battle.

 

Or is it that they only wore them for shore leave?

 

I doubt there's a definitive answer but a worthwhile though perhaps. Especially going up and around the ropes. It would play havoc with the men's ability to walk and the risk of even a minor injury. Was risking amputation a best. If not a slow and painful death from infection.

[mtaylor]

Good question.  I don't think there's a definitive answer though...  I read a couple of accounts where the men had their shoes on for inspection, rum ration, meals.  But then they turn around and when preparing for battle, shirts came off and so did shoes but this was only the gun crews below decks.  It may have to do with the heat of the guns, and not (perception?) slipping on a wet or bloody gun deck. The grating spacing on holes was choosen as being the least likely for a man to wedge his heel (shoe) into the hole while still providing maximum airflow.

 

These were leather soles and shoes cost the sailor money.  Not sure of prices.  So there's probably some reality and some myth in play here.  How much, though I can't say.  Let's see what others say.

 

Are these contemporary illustrations?

[JerseyCity Frankie]

Contemporary sources often mention footwear on sailors, sometimes they list two or three different types. My guess is that if the activity involved water underfoot then feet were likely bare. But lets face it those ships went everywhere in all kinds of weather. Clifford Ashley makes a point of mentioning that shoes were not warn in the whaleboats during the chase. Eric Newby and Allen Villiars talk a lot about the pros and cons of leather verses rubber boots in late stage sale vessels.

 

Onmodern sailing vessels it is still a matter of "different ships different long splices". Its an issue that is addressed when you go aboard and you will soon learn which way the captain wants things. But some modern ships are 'barefoot OK" and some are not. The ones against are concerned with the astonishing number of low slung iron objects on deck and on these ships frequently even open toed sandals are prohibited.

There is a similar debate about wearing gloves. Not wearing gloves when working aloft allows a better grip on the rigging and most ships prohibit the wearing of gloves aloft. I have seen newbies go aloft with gloves on only to remove them themselves when they realize its not helping them but in fact keeping them a tiny bit less secure up there.

Wearing gloves while handling line would appear to be a no-brainer but in reality better line handling habits are formed using the bare hand. Gloves encourage the wrong headed practice of letting the line slide through your hands while easing it, and this can lead to loss of control.

Contemporary sources often mention footwear on sailors

[Izzy Madd]

Good question.  I don't think there's a definitive answer though...  I read a couple of accounts where the men had their shoes on for inspection, rum ration, meals.  But then they turn around and when preparing for battle, shirts came off and so did shoes but this was only the gun crews below decks.  It may have to do with the heat of the guns, and not (perception?) slipping on a wet or bloody gun deck. The grating spacing on holes was choosen as being the least likely for a man to wedge his heel (shoe) into the hole while still providing maximum airflow.

 

These were leather soles and shoes cost the sailor money.  Not sure of prices.  So there's probably some reality and some myth in play here.  How much, though I can't say.  Let's see what others say.

 

Are these contemporary illustrations?

I was looking at images of the Mary Rose so some 300 years before but newish finds. One thought that strikes me as a knot worker as well. There would have been a lot of old sail cloth nocking around and the sail maker could make a fair living making quick simple shoes for all on board. And plenty of takers and materials. If he kept his prices right the sailors could afford them as well. Just a thought.

[Izzy Madd]

Contemporary sources often mention footwear on sailors, sometimes they list two or three different types. My guess is that if the activity involved water underfoot then feet were likely bare. But lets face it those ships went everywhere in all kinds of weather. Clifford Ashley makes a point of mentioning that shoes were not warn in the whaleboats during the chase. Eric Newby and Allen Villiars talk a lot about the pros and cons of leather verses rubber boots in late stage sale vessels.

 

Onmodern sailing vessels it is still a matter of "different ships different long splices". Its an issue that is addressed when you go aboard and you will soon learn which way the captain wants things. But some modern ships are 'barefoot OK" and some are not. The ones against are concerned with the astonishing number of low slung iron objects on deck and on these ships frequently even open toed sandals are prohibited.

There is a similar debate about wearing gloves. Not wearing gloves when working aloft allows a better grip on the rigging and most ships prohibit the wearing of gloves aloft. I have seen newbies go aloft with gloves on only to remove them themselves when they realize its not helping them but in fact keeping them a tiny bit less secure up there.

Wearing gloves while handling line would appear to be a no-brainer but in reality better line handling habits are formed using the bare hand. Gloves encourage the wrong headed practice of letting the line slide through your hands while easing it, and this can lead to loss of control.

Contemporary sources often mention footwear on sailors

From what you've said it seems that both practices where equally used so it's likely that some "posh" artist or writer saw one sailor barefoot and it just seemed more romantic. As even soft canvas shoes would offer protection against rusty iron work and again the sailors or sail maker could soon knock up a hemp sole, a splash of tar and you've got a pair of decent forward..,

[Tallshiptragic]

Just my 50cents worth, but climbing on rat lines and foot ropes on a yard is quicker barefoot. On both Endeavour and Duyfken there were those who wore shoes and those of us who preferred to be barefoot in the rigging. I assume it was the same for sailors then. You'd probably find that idlers - those that didn't stand watches and didn't go aloft - would wear shoes and top men more likely would be barefoot.

[Force9]

http://usscm.blogspot.com/2014/02/slip-shod-truth-about-early-navy-shoes.html

[rybakov]

For what it's worth I met as a child some people that still went around their daily business barefoot.

What impressed me the most was the thickness of the sole - sometimes almost half an inch.

One of them while attending to an horse being shoed stepped on a hot horseshoe and only withdrew the foot

when someone noticed the burnt smell.

So most seamen going barefoot at the time seems more than likely to me-

 

Zeh

[Tadeusz43]

Hi,

On the basis of shipwrecks found along the Polish coast of the Baltic Sea and found there remnants of personal items and clothing.

The Maritime Museum in Gdansk recreates the look and dress of the seventeenth century sailors.

This was possible because of Baltic sea water due to the low temperatures

 and low oxygen content well preserves the wood and other artifacts are also the lack of marine organisms destroying organic substances (leather, textiles).

They had shoes.

Was used methods applied in criminology and reconstructed on the basis of the appearance of the sailors found skulls.

 

Tadeusz

[rybakov]

Well, I had a feeling, but against proof .....

I am convinced.

My excuses to Force9, I was writing  as you were posting.

 

All the best to everybody

 

Zeh

[Tadeusz43]

Hi,

I think the dress sailors depend on the climate in which they sailed.

Baltic is rather cold and the shoes were a necessity.

When I sailed the Atlantic and Pacific Central not always wore shoes but sometimes it was necessary because the deck was too hot.

 

Tadeusz

[mtaylor]

Interestingly, I found some info in Boudroit's  The 74-gun Ship.   Anytime the guns were being exercised or powder being loaded to the magazine, all hands went barefoot.  The reasons fit the anectodal "the gunners were barefoot and stripped to the waist".   No shirts due to heat and also catching the shirt on things.  Barefoot because any powder grains stepped on with shoes could ignite.

 

Then there's the wet deck issues...  

[cog]

I presume you should specify when and where the sailor would be employed and thus if wearing/not wearing shoes. A sailor in a John Company vessel is an entirely different sailor compared to a sailor pressed in HMS navy ... As a common sailor in HMS navy you would be required to pay the leaches for your slob clothing and shoes. Shoes would be a luxury in my view ... why pay if your soles would be hard enough ... You wouldn't get of th eship anyway ...

[dafi]

There seems a lot of evidence about sailors wearing shoes aloft.

 

Most of the contemporary drawings I know done by sailors shows them with shoes aloft.

 

"The man of HMS Victory at Trafalgar" by John D. Clarke mentions the mast sale of the belongings of Andrew Sack, Yoeman of sheets, who died at Trafalgar, among were 1 pair of boots and 4 pair of shoes.

 

From the wreckages 1814 of Thorsminde there is an interesting thesis about the found footwear:

http://www.maritimearchaeology.dk/downloads/Martin%20Lonergan_Thesis.pdf

Plenty of information and pictures

 

 

Personal possesions from HMS Boscawen

Thesis by Gail Erwin

Thesis: December 1994

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/Theses/pdf-files/Erwin-MA1994.pdf

 

 

 

Enjoy, Daniel

Edited March 22, 2015 by dafi

[Izzy Madd]

Just my 50cents worth, but climbing on rat lines and foot ropes on a yard is quicker barefoot. On both Endeavour and Duyfken there were those who wore shoes and those of us who preferred to be barefoot in the rigging. I assume it was the same for sailors then. You'd probably find that idlers - those that didn't stand watches and didn't go aloft - would wear shoes and top men more likely would be barefoot.

With all due respect to experience but the act of going barefoot on ratlines. Runs the risk of inflames Plantar flaciatious. Which far from fatal or needing amputation would render the sailor concerned useless for duty as he would be all but crippled by pain. And even the later comment about thickened soles of feet. Which is just one foot sised corn. Would still suffer from this condition as its the tendons that are inflamed not the surface of the skin. As the rope forces the many small bones of the foot apart stretching things that don't want to be stretched.

 

And as a sufferer of PF it is evil.

[Tallshiptragic]

It may, but I've always and many tall ship sailors prefer being barefoot in the rig.

[Izzy Madd]

It may, but I've always and many tall ship sailors prefer being barefoot in the rig.

I can understand it being so as its the same reason high wire acts wear very thin shoes, sometimes with toe shapes in them.

 

It was just an observation. From a devote coward when it comes to anything higher than 6".

 

It's interesting how a simple query can uncover so much unknown truth though as with the member who showed pictures from his museum with all the sailor wearing shoes.

 

The idea of going bear foot to prevent gunpowder fires seems odd though. As with all the water being slopped about to keep the barrel clear and cool enough to load. Friction ignition would be the last thing to worry about. And what about the marine on each gun he'd have had boots on surely.

[trippwj]

If one considers that the average British seaman was, until the middle of the 19th century, rather poorly paid (in earlier times, not paid until he was released from the ship, which may have been years), often poorly equipped when enlisted, and had to acquire apparel through the ships slops locker (his pay would be reduced based on the slops received), there was a decided self interest in protecting the footwear - not wearing it out by wearing the shoes/boots at all times.  In particularly colder climates, there was an obvious need to wear something.  In the rigging, however, there are so many accounts (logs, diaries, tales and so on) from contemporary sources that there was a decided preference for bare feet when aloft for better footing and grip.  Remember, period shoes/boots that the sailor may have been issued were far from what we have today.

[Tadeusz43]

Hi,

The sailor on yellow boat never wear shoes and even need not ratlines.

 

Tadeusz

[Louie da fly]

I was barefoot throughout my childhood in the 1950's in a suburb of Perth, the capital city of Western Australia. I only started wearing shoes on a regular basis when I went to high school. Before that it was Tuesday evenings (I was in the cub scouts) and on occasional trips to Perth.

 

I found shoes constricting, and they're bad for the development of a child's feet. I had very tough soles to my feet, and I could walk on stony ground and some (not all) thorns without being bothered. The only major problem was stubbed toes - they could be painful and bloody, but they healed up pretty fast. If any kid had worn shoes at my primary school they would have been laughed out of the place.

 

Nowadays I wear shoes all the time, and my feet are as tender as anyone else's, but if I go somewhere where I need a good grip (like walking on the roof of the house) I prefer to go barefoot. 

 

After all, barefoot is the natural way to go - our ancestors were barefoot for a million years before shoes were invented. They seem to have done all right.

 

This doesn't answer the question of whether all sailors were bareoot on shipboard, but from my own experience there's no reason they couldn't have..

Edited March 24, 2015 by Louie da fly

[Jason]

I think that the answer is both yes, and no.  The answer being dependent on the customs of the individual ship, squadron, navy, country, and even that most granular of data points, the individual sailor.  There is clearly documentation to assert both positions.  Most likely there was a time and place for being barefoot, and likewise for wearing shoes.  However I think there may be something of value that I can add to the discussion in relation to the realities of the footwear in question.

 

I participate in living history events, a.k.a. reenactments, focusing on the late 18th century.  Mostly I give an impression of a private soldier in King George III's army.  Admittedly, this gives me no special knowledge as to what it was like to sail on the ships of the time, but there is an applicable link.  Period shoes.  I wear replica late 18th century, early 19th century shoes when at these events.  Here are a few things to ponder when it comes to wearing shoes in period.

 

1. Shoes of the time period are made of 100% natural materials.  Although, this may seem like an obvious point, any modern could easily overlook just how time consuming it is to maintain a daily use item made from natural materials.  Especially items as prone to heavy use as shoes.  It takes only one long day to noticeably wear period shoes.  A long day and a hard march over even a little bit of rough surface can destroy a pair shoes.  Though the deck of a ship is far from rough terrain, the constant flexing involved in maintaining one's balance on a pitching deck would definitely strain the materials in the shoes.  The need for maintenance and repair is clearly shown in the link to JackTar's blog above, and here : http://usscm.blogspot.com/2014/02/slip-shod-truth-about-early-navy-shoes.html
2. Modern shoes have a complex structure embedded in the soles called a shank.  This structure gives our arches support, and helps to prevent Plantar Fasciitis, as mentioned above.  Period shoes have no such structure.  The soles are only a few pieces of thick leather stitched together.  The heel is assembled with several more layers of the leather, and bound to the sole with iron nails and an iron heel plate that looks like a miniature horse shoe.  The shoes give no support to the structure of your foot, especially when one's foot is on something as narrow as a rope.  A sailor may have used the triangle in between the heel and the sole to trap the lines, but the heel would have been susceptible to being ripped off of the sole.
3. Every two days of use, the soles need to be roughed up in order to keep them safe.  The leather on the bottom of the sole quickly takes on a polish with use and moisture, making trekking up even a modest grade on grass next to impossible without hob nails, or using the heel plate to dig into the ground.  Imagine what that would do to the deck of a ship.  A shoe that was roughed up in the morning to help with traction can be worn smooth again by noon.
4. Foot rot...  It does not take too much imagination to ponder what happens to one's feet when perpetually kept in tight leather cases that do not breath like today's shoes.

Again, I think that the answer was highly variable and dependent on a variety of factors.  Probably most sailors wore shoes sometimes, and not on other occasions.  The only experience that I have with period vessels was on-board the US Brig Niagara, where I observed that most of the crew wore those shoes that are supposed to simulate being bare foot.  You know, those crazy shoes with individual toes.  Not judging, if they work, they work.

 

I hope that this adds to the discussion, and gives some more information for people to ponder.

[michaelpsutton2]

I read an account of Cook's final voyage through Polynesia. It mentioned that the officers were regarded with some suspicion by the Polynesians because of their shoes. People wondered what was wrong with their feet. The common sailors, who were barefoot, were seen as "normal" by the barefoot islanders

[Krelis]

We waren met een goed aantal Nederlandsche schepen, maar geen van de schippers durfde van wal steken,

     

want binnenkort krioelde het letterlijk van Duinkerkers. Net een zwerm wespen! Maar onze ouwe krabde zich eens achter het oor, en zei: “jongens, 't najaar is op handen en dan wou ik liefst eens thuis bij moeder de vrouw zijn; in November slachten ze 't varken en dat vetprijzen maak ik graag mee. En jelui?” - “Nou schipper”, zeiden we, “als ze 't bij ons niet doen, doen ze 't bij de buren, en we houden ook van beuling en een plak versch-gekookte lever op ons brood.” Ja, Paddeltje, we smakten met onze lippen, net als jij nou doet. En toen zei de schipper: “vooruit, daar gaat ie.” En we gingen er van door, dat al de andere schippers d'r kersepit er over schudden. Maar d'n ouwe van ons zei toen, dat we de vaten met oude bedorven Iersche boter eens voor den dag moesten halen. “Steekt er je knuisten maar eens in, maats”, zei hij. We dachten al, dat is een raar geval; maar wat doe-je als je matroos bent, hè. Opzitten en pootjes geven. Nu dan, we moesten 't dek en 't want en vooral de railings goed insmeren, en we kregen er schik in, want we begrepen wat er gebeuren moest. Daar zwermde al zoo'n kaper op ons aan. Wij hadden onze schoenen uitgetrokken; als 't ons niet bevolen was, hadden we 't uit ons eigen gedaan, want je kon op dek niet anders dan op je kousen vooruit komen. En kun-je nu begrijpen, wat er toen gebeurd is, Paddeltje?’

Paddeltje grijnsde.

‘De Duinkerkers enterden, en gleden toen zeker uit?’

     

‘Precies, m'n jongen; of ze glijbaantje speelden! En wij voor den dag, dat begrijp-je, en we tikten ze met de enterbijl op den neus, dat ze nog gauwer terugsprongen, dan ze aan boord gewipt waren.’

Paddeltje schudde van den lach.

 

Fragment from the Book "Paddeltje" describing skipper Michiel A. De Ruyters action against the Dunkerk Pirates, where he had his decks and outside of the hull plastered with old Irish butter, to keep the Dunkirkians from boarding. Lange Meeuwis (colleague of Paddeltje) states (orange) :"we had taken of our shoes, If we had not been ordered to do so, we would have done so ourselves, on deck you could only move forward on socks".

Edited March 26, 2015 by Jan B.

[wq3296]

Greetings,

 

There are far to many variables to draw any conclusions as to who,when, where sailors wore shoes, or not. I expect that from the beginning man sought protection for his feet as the need arose resulting in the development of foot wear. As time went on convention and fashion took over and shoes became the norm even if not needed. However, the default position has always been bare feet and, unless there is a need or a requirement, people prefer to be bare footed. So what if shoes were found on the wreck? All it means is that some folks wore them all the time and others occasionally or not at all - same as today. You cannot draw any meaningful conclusions one way or the other.

 

Disclaimer: My opinions do not apply to any ships that may have been crewed by women. They seem to love shoes and would find a way to wear a new pair every day even if they had to work in the rigging.

 

wq3296