Help With Ratlines

[mkmossop]

I just started the ratlines of my Santa Maria model and am very unhappy with how they look. I don't know if I'm just being obsessive, but to me there are major problems.

 

I wasn't expecting this at all so I didn't prepare for it, but the ratlines seem to actually push the shrouds out to the sides so they don't make a straight line. I didn't consider that the strength of the string would be enough to change the alignment of the shrouds.

 

It could look worse, but to me it's very noticeable that the shrouds aren't straight. It's especially noticeable at the top, however I think this will be fixed a bit when I put a few more ratlines on.

 

I think one of my problems was that my shrouds weren't tight enough. I had issues when rigging them to get them really taught, and I think the looseness allowed them to become misaligned. Also, I notice that some people put up lined paper behind their shrouds to do the ratlines... I didn't think that was necessary as they were straight before the ratlines and didn't expect them to get pushed over.

 

Anyway... I don't know what I'm asking. I guess there's no way to fix this without redoing them? I would really prefer not to... and especially don't want to redo the shrouds (although I know they also start way too high up).

 

Other question... if I'm going to redo these, should I make the ratlines thinner?

 

Edited July 7, 2015 by mkmossop

[Gyber]

Yes, this is a common problem, and shrouds can be pushed in as well as out of alignment if you are not diligent.  I would redo the ratlines, but maybe the shrouds are fine. Even super-taunt shrouds can be pushed in/out.  One approach is to use a card to mark the shroud positions and the expected ratline positions.  Then you can verify after each ratline that things are shipshape.  Also, if you do every other ratline, then fill in the gaps, it can be easier to maintain alignment.  

 

Robert 

[marktiedens]

I would also add that if you re-do them use light weight thread - the ratlines are usually the thinnest ropes on the ship.That should fix the problem of pushing the shrouds apart.

 

/Mark

[Ulises Victoria]

Actually the ratlines were not straight ropes, but had a minor curve downwards, so don't be over zealous in having them perfectly straight. If you don't over tighten them, they will not pull the shrouds inwards.

Hope this is clear.

[druxey]

The other tip to prevent shrouds from bowing out or in is to tie every fifth ratline first, then add the intermediate ones.

[mkmossop]

Thank you for the tips everyone. I think I'll redo them using thinner string, and will use some of the tips suggested. The next thinner thread I have is significantly thinner, so I hope it doesn't look silly. I'll post a pic when it's done.

[Ulises Victoria]

Ratlines were significantly thinner than the shrouds, so I think you will be OK

 

 

Edited July 8, 2015 by Ulises Victoria

[mkmossop]

Interesting... thanks for the pics.

 

I decided to redo the shrouds as well as the ratlines. I think it looks way better with the deadeyes closer together like this. Seeing how they were before looks kind of silly now.

 

Anyway, I did every fifth ratline, and that seems to have worked to help me keep things straight. I'll fill in the others tonight hopefully. The ratlines may be a tiny bit thick still, so I was thinking of waxing them to make them look thinner. What type of wax would I use to do that?

 

[Ulises Victoria]

Beeswax is what is more recommended. I have my doubts that waxing the ropes will make them look thinner. And its nearly impossible to do that in already placed ratlines.

[mkmossop]

I don't think it would make a huge difference, but maybe a little. It's like getting them wet... all the tiny fluff that comes off goes away and it looks a little thinner.

 

Anyway... why do you think it would be so difficult?

[Dziadeczek]

You were right before - placing behind a card with pencilled runs of the shrouds and ratlines helps a lot, not only to maintain equal space between ratlines, but also to maintain straight shrouds - if the ratlines are too taught, they will pull on and distort straight run of the shrouds - you will see it immediately, as compared with the pencilled shrouds on the card behind. So, I strongly recommend this card pattern. If it is pencilled on both sides, you can reverse it and use it on the other side - that way you'll get them perfectly symmetrical.

Also, using dark (black) colored thread for ratlines, instead of tan, will optically make them look thinner (even thogh they may not be). But, there is this issue, were ratlines black or tan?  I have seen both on the full size sailing vessels. So, you have to decide yourself.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Dziadeczek

[Ulises Victoria]

I don't think it would make a huge difference, but maybe a little. It's like getting them wet... all the tiny fluff that comes off goes away and it looks a little thinner.

 

Anyway... why do you think it would be so difficult?

The way you do the waxing is pulling a piece of thread over a cake of wax. I don't see how you can do that to an already tied ratline, unless you know something I don't?

[keelhauled]

shrouds look much better with shorter space between deadeyes.  

I agree about the waxing.  I wax the lines of the ship.  Don't know how you would go about waxing rigged lines.  Might actually cause damage if you try to do something with them rigged.

[Landlocked123]

Thank you for the tips everyone. I think I'll redo them using thinner string, and will use some of the tips suggested. The next thinner thread I have is significantly thinner, so I hope it doesn't look silly. I'll post a pic when it's done.

Hi MK,

 

I am certain that thread is significantly cheaper than the value of your time. Go to a quilting or sewing shop and you will be able to buy exactly what you need for a couple of bucks.

 

Best, John

 

BTW. This link for a you tube showing how to tie rat lines was posted on MSW a while back. I think it's pretty good.

 

http://youtu.be/yMmGFWJhi8E

Edited July 14, 2015 by Landlocked123

[mkmossop]

You were right before - placing behind a card with pencilled runs of the shrouds and ratlines helps a lot, not only to maintain equal space between ratlines, but also to maintain straight shrouds - if the ratlines are too taught, they will pull on and distort straight run of the shrouds - you will see it immediately, as compared with the pencilled shrouds on the card behind. So, I strongly recommend this card pattern.

 

Any tips on getting this done? I found it difficult to keep the paper in place while drawing lines along the shrouds. Any pressure whatsoever against the shrouds and they would move out of alignment.

 

 

The way you do the waxing is pulling a piece of thread over a cake of wax. I don't see how you can do that to an already tied ratline, unless you know something I don't?

 

I just thought I would get some wax on my fingers and get it on the thread from there. Thinking about it though, I'm going to redo it again with thinner rope again.

 

Also, do people generally glue the clove hitch after tying it? I find the clove hitch on either of the outside shrouds always gets loose if I don't put some glue on it.

Edited July 14, 2015 by mkmossop

[Dziadeczek]

Here is an example, how to do it. I used miniature clothespins (from Michaels's or Hobby Lobby or similar place), or instead, you can use mini alligator clips from an electronic store, whatever is around you. After installing all ratlines, flip the card and mount it behind shrouds on the opposite side and start all over.

Have fun! 

[Dziadeczek]

Here is an example, how to do it. I used miniature clothespins (from Michaels's or Hobby Lobby or similar place), or instead, you can use mini alligator clips from an electronic store, whatever is around you. After installing all ratlines, flip the card and mount it behind shrouds on the opposite side and start all over.

Waxing the ratlines after installation is nearly impossible, so wax your line BEFORE.

Have fun! 

[usedtosail]

For marking the shroud locations on the card, I just mark the tops and bottom position of each shroud, then remove the card and use a straight edge on the bench to make straight lines between the two marks for each shroud.

[Ulises Victoria]

 

Also, do people generally glue the clove hitch after tying it? I find the clove hitch on either of the outside shrouds always gets loose if I don't put some glue on it.

I usually only glue the first and last knots. Rarely I need to put a drop of glue in some middle stubborn clove hitch. BTW I use FLAT Model Master varnish instead of glue. Dries flat and has just the right amount of strength to do the job. Diluted white glue would be my second choice. I NEVER use CA.

[mkmossop]

Here is an example, how to do it. I used miniature clothespins (from Michaels's or Hobby Lobby or similar place), or instead, you can use mini alligator clips from an electronic store, whatever is around you. After installing all ratlines, flip the card and mount it behind shrouds on the opposite side and start all over.

Waxing the ratlines after installation is nearly impossible, so wax your line BEFORE.

Have fun! 

 

Clothespins... of course... why didn't I think of that. Thanks!

 

For marking the shroud locations on the card, I just mark the tops and bottom position of each shroud, then remove the card and use a straight edge on the bench to make straight lines between the two marks for each shroud.

 

Great tip... thank you .

 

 

I usually only glue the first and last knots. Rarely I need to put a drop of glue in some middle stubborn clove hitch. BTW I use FLAT Model Master varnish instead of glue. Dries flat and has just the right amount of strength to do the job. Diluted white glue would be my second choice. I NEVER use CA.

 

Yes I was doing first and last as well. I may try the varnish since the glue tends to show a little bit.

[mkmossop]

Couple more questions...

 

1) What vertical spacing should you use between ratlines? I've basically just been doing what I thought looked good.

 

2) What angle should the ratlines be on? Should it be in line with the deck / railing below?

 

3) Do you normally cut the loose ends of rope on the first and last clove hitch flush with the shroud? In most pictures there's no loose rope hanging off.

[Ulises Victoria]

Hello

 

1.- If it looks good, it's good. Distance is relative to size of the ship and scale. Remember those were used as steps to climb to the masts.

 

2.- Horizontal

 

3.- Yes- Put a tiny drop of FLAT varnish or very diluted white glue. Wait to dry and cut flush.(Emphasis in FLAT. Gloss will stand out like a sore thumb)

You mentioned before that the glue tends to show. Use diluted glue, about 50/50 or more. The idea is that the glue is absorbed into the knot, not covering it. A minimum amount of strength is actually needed.  Hope this is clear.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Ulises Victoria

[Izzy Madd]

I just started the ratlines of my Santa Maria model and am very unhappy with how they look. I don't know if I'm just being obsessive, but to me there are major problems.

 

I wasn't expecting this at all so I didn't prepare for it, but the ratlines seem to actually push the shrouds out to the sides so they don't make a straight line. I didn't consider that the strength of the string would be enough to change the alignment of the shrouds.

 

It could look worse, but to me it's very noticeable that the shrouds aren't straight. It's especially noticeable at the top, however I think this will be fixed a bit when I put a few more ratlines on.

 

I think one of my problems was that my shrouds weren't tight enough. I had issues when rigging them to get them really taught, and I think the looseness allowed them to become misaligned. Also, I notice that some people put up lined paper behind their shrouds to do the ratlines... I didn't think that was necessary as they were straight before the ratlines and didn't expect them to get pushed over.

 

Anyway... I don't know what I'm asking. I guess there's no way to fix this without redoing them? I would really prefer not to... and especially don't want to redo the shrouds (although I know they also start way too high up).

 

Other question... if I'm going to redo these, should I make the ratlines thinner?

 

ratlines.jpg

If the shroud line rant tight then the glue I assume you are using. Will cause the lines to loosen even further due to the moisture. That makes them move away from the dampest side. And the glue will set before it dries so any bulge is fixed. If you've only used thinned PVA for the ratlines. I hope. CA crystallises over time. And fails.IMO. Then acetone on a cotton bud/q tip. Should dissolve the glue either way. And then tighten the shroud lines.

[mkmossop]

Thank you for the help again. I'll use diluted glue I think. Will post a pic in a few days.

[mkmossop]

Finally got them done... had to redo them a couple times to get it right. I think it looks far better than the first time I did them. Still need to trim the loose ends of thread. Thanks for the help!

 

 

Edited August 9, 2015 by mkmossop

[Ulises Victoria]

Ain't it feels great?

[S.Coleman]

Congratulations. They came up well. Neat work