HMS Thorn by Kevin Kenny - 1:48 scale - Swan-class - David Antscherl practium

[Kevin Kenny]

Video 20, installation of the forward square frames L-G

[dvm27]

Very nice videos, Kevin. The time-lapse feature is terrific. It's pretty humbling to realize, after the fact, that we have made a fundamental error (such as installing those frames in reverse) despite all the care we take.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

I took the time today, to look at your last videos. Really interesting way to show your build.

They give me a lot of motivation to continue my own build. Thanks for sharing

[tlevine]

Kevin, very nice build.  Please check the locations of the timberheads against the as-built plans for Thorn.  The locations for a few of the timberheads on Atalanta (and Fly, the only other vessel I have plans for) differ from David's Mylar plan.  It would be easy to correct now if necessary.  For example, on the plan you show in your video, the two of the timberheads are made of short stuff above the last gun port.  On Atalanta the timberheads were shifted to prevent this.  

[Kevin Kenny]

[dvm27]

When working on the port sills or toptimber lines it is very important to make sure that they are parallel athwartships. Always work on opposite sides as pairs, Mark off the correct height of the bottom of the sills with a height gage or template on each side. Use a long rigid sanding stick, the same width as the port opening, with 150 grit garnet paper affixed. It should be a couple inches wider than the ship. Apply differential pressure while sanding the frames athwartship untill you have reached the marks on the hull on each. You may now install the sills and be certain they are at the correct heights and parallel athwartship.

 

Deck clamp installation - it is crucial that the deck clamps be installed at the proper height in relation to the lower sills or the cannon barrels will not sit in the center of the port opening. Once you have established a proper fair run of the lower sills you should use this as your reference point for the deck clamps. Make a template to transfer the distance from the top of the lower port sill to the bottom of the deck clamp. This measurement will be consistant across the hull. Your sill heights may vary a little from the framing plan due to  human error but stick with the afore mentioned template. If done well, your deck/waterway/spirketting accumulated heights will fall exactly even with the top of the bottom sill.

 

So, getting the correct sill positions and heights is crucial to the rest of the build. After installation, affix a batten across the tops of the lower sills. It should be a clean, fair run from one end to the other with no dips or rises. Add thin fillers to build them up or reduce with the athwartship sanding stick for minor adjustments.

[Kevin Kenny]

Kevin, very nice build.  Please check the locations of the timberheads against the as-built plans for Thorn.  The locations for a few of the timberheads on Atalanta (and Fly, the only other vessel I have plans for) differ from David's Mylar plan.  It would be easy to correct now if necessary.  For example, on the plan you show in your video, the two of the timberheads are made of short stuff above the last gun port.  On Atalanta the timberheads were shifted to prevent this.

 

Not sure how to post pictures but i have been following the Thorn plan as per Gregs suggestion. The forwar section has one additional timber head while the stern is short two timberheads although you can see some light drawing on the actual print. Maby Greg could comment on this?

[dvm27]

David's plans and practicum were derived from the Pegasus plans. As Toni points out, there are variations from ship to ship. If your Thorn plan is as built then this is the ultimate reference and I would follow it. Sometimes, the as built drawing has pencil notations that are difficult to read.

[Kevin Kenny]

Hi Greg what do you think about Toni point. See my response to him here.

Hi Toni

Just saw your post. I was under the impression that all comments were sent directly to me . Either i missed youe email response or i did not get it.

 

Your point is very interesting. In fact as i look at the plan of the Thorn i see a lot of differences. The frame 2,9,14F,11F, there is a light line drawing added after the plan was drawn, suggesting that these frames go all the way to the railing.

There ar two missing timber head at the back but again light pensil marks???

At the front section the plan has one addition timber head..

What is your openion about the light line drawings.?

Also not sure which frame you felt is shifted. Is it 7Aft and 11 aft?

Best regards

Kevin

[tlevine]

To post pictures take a look at these instructions posted by Dan Vadas.  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/540-how-to-add-pictures-in-your-posts-and-pms/.  Can you take a picture of the areas of the plan you are questioning?  

[Kevin Kenny]

[Kevin Kenny]

 

Installing Square frames 10-6

[dvm27]

Congratulations on the production of your first chocked full frame. I guarantee your production will speed up as you move on. I usually make them in pairs (each station). There is a small drawback in not installing bevelled chocks. During the fairing process you may sand into the chock of the narrower face (fore face on the fore frames and aft face on the aft frames).  This could result in a wavy outside joint line instead of a parallel one. Probably would not be that noticeable as the wood tones down after time.

 

I cut all the bevels for the chock on my Sherline mill. It's actually very easy to do. It is possible to do these with a chisel (David Antscherl certainly does) but I find it difficult to keep them consistent that way.

[Kevin Kenny]

Congratulations on the production of your first chocked full frame. I guarantee your production will speed up as you move on. I usually make them in pairs (each station). There is a small drawback in not installing bevelled chocks. During the fairing process you may sand into the chock of the narrower face (fore face on the fore frames and aft face on the aft frames).  This could result in a wavy outside joint line instead of a parallel one. Probably would not be that noticeable as the wood tones down after time.

 

I cut all the bevels for the chock on my Sherline mill. It's actually very easy to do. It is possible to do these with a chisel (David Antscherl certainly does) but I find it difficult to keep them consistent that way.

I will give it a try and see how they come out. As always thanks for the feedback.

Kevin

[dvm27]

I wouldn't worry too much about the timberheads and quarterdeck stanchions at this point, Kevin.  I think you will find them much easier to shape off the model then installed later after the various plankshears (rails) are in place. The most important thing to do is to get the toptimber levels correct, with smooth graceful lines. They are also parallel athwartships. This is much easier to do without timberheads and stanchions in the way. Later on, you can form the various plankshears from two sections with slots left to receive each timberhead or stanchion. David illustrates this beautifully in his book.

 

[aviaamator]

Alas, the video is unavailable for my laptop...

[Kevin Kenny]

Alas, the video is unavailable for my laptop...

Not sure why you cannot see the video as it is on vimeo open to the public. Is there something i can do to help you get access? Best regards Kevin

[AnobiumPunctatum]

@Aviaamator

 

perhaps it has something to do with your inter net connection. I am on holiday and have a slow connection. So I had also a little bit trouble to view the video. If I am back at home I will view it again.

[Kevin Kenny]

The reason i chose Vimeo over YouTube was the quality. The down side to Vimeo is that ypu will need at leat 2m to view. Sorry about that.

[Kevin Kenny]

Hello Kevin,I am not sure,but as far my knowledge goes you can upload any quality on you tube even 4K.

At the time i started posting it was very difficult to post quality video , that has since changed but i had already picked a place to host my videos and so am sticking to vimeo.

[aviaamator]

Works video! Watch and learn! Thank you!

[Kevin Kenny]

Progress continues

[AnobiumPunctatum]

As allways, very intersting videos of your build

[Kevin Kenny]

I wouldn't worry too much about the timberheads and quarterdeck stanchions at this point, Kevin.  I think you will find them much easier to shape off the model then installed later after the various plankshears (rails) are in place. The most important thing to do is to get the toptimber levels correct, with smooth graceful lines. They are also parallel athwartships. This is much easier to do without timberheads and stanchions in the way. Later on, you can form the various plankshears from two sections with slots left to receive each timberhead or stanchion. David illustrates this beautifully in his book.

 

DSCN6441e.jpg

so waht you are saying is that all the tops of the frames are cut flat and added after. I wondered how i was going to cut holes for each of the timberheads to pass through the rail ( not sure of the correct term) . This makes so much sense.

[Kevin Kenny]

I had to take a rest after a real bad bout of flu. But i am back and used the time to clean up the inside of the frames on the model. In the process i modified one of my Proxxon sanding tools and have invited Proxxon to produce some accessories that may be of use to our hobby.

[michael mott]

Kevin, I like your attitude and the clarity of your videos, thanks for doing these.

 

Michael

[druxey]

Just looking in as I do from time to time, Kevin. The modified Proxxon heads will do a very nice job. Hope you get a small royalty on each one sold!

 

You seem to be making good progress on Thorn. Good stuff!

[Kevin Kenny]

https://vimeo.com/195183807

[dvm27]

Nice recovery, Kevin. I suppose you were blessed/cursed with having the Thorn framing plan. Goes to show you that even thought the Swan vessels were a class within themselves with designated Admiralty specs, their  builders still took liberties with regards to their actual construction (most likely based on their own apprenticeship). I'm pretty sure I recall David writing somewhere in TFFM that, in case of discrepencies, the plan for your individual vessel should be the ultimate source.

 

With regard to creeping error you can always cheat an inch or two off either side as you approach the dead flat. You might want to construct the dead flat three-frame-assembly now and temporarily place it to help you figure out how the other frames will fill in. I found this very helpful. 

 

Your assistant Ollie is darned cute!

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Kevin,

 

thanks that you brought these details with your small mistake back in my mind. I hope that my rising wood will help me to place the frames accuratly.