Great Republic 1853 by rwiederrich - FINISHED - four masted extreme clipper

[rwiederrich]

One thing I failed to mention about the panel lines on the paper.  I drew them out fist on both sides...then double sided copied them over and over....and I reduced the saturation to make the lines as dim but recognizable as possible.....so all that is needed is to cut and paint(after you added the bands of course).  I have enough copies to last till the cows come home.

 

Rob

[popeye the sailor]

mast rigging looks awesome Rob!  sails look great too     

[Dowmer]

Thanks Rob!👍

[BANYAN]

Very interesting and effective technique Rob.  After adding all the detail do you give it all a final sealing coat of a flat/matte lacquer or other substance to preserve it/longevity?  OR, does the paint do that for you?

 

cheers

 

Pat

[rwiederrich]

With these particular sails I am detailing the edges and seams with pencil highlights..adding wear and tear shall we say...just enough to validate the sail, because they are supposed to be  new canvas prior to that eventful night the Great Republic burned.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

3 hours ago, BANYAN said:

Very interesting and effective technique Rob.  After adding all the detail do you give it all a final sealing coat of a flat/matte lacquer or other substance to preserve it/longevity?  OR, does the paint do that for you?

 

cheers

 

Pat

The paint is the preservative.

I mounted the topgallant and will take pics tomorrow.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

13 hours ago, Dowmer said:

Thanks Rob!👍

Dowmer...The details will get even better when I add the reef bands/points to the topsails and main course.

 

One item I need to compensate for is the length of the sail.  When it is *billowed* it shortens.  I didn't want my model to have just *hanging* sails, but active ones.....so it takes a bit of 3D imaginational geometry.  Kinda like when I make furled sails....I never use the actual size of the sail....but a modified version.so when it is furled it looks neat and tightly and clean...not oversized and bulky.

 

The next couple of days might be a bit slower in the yard due to family issues...but I will attempt to keep moving forward. This is  just the first mast...and I have 2 others along with the for and aft rigged spanker.

 

Smooth sailing to all.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

One other note to point out for those interested.  Some might ask why not use silkspan?

 

Silkspan is a very nice, nearly to scale material..but I have my issues with it.

 

One; silkspan does not support itself very well, in larger portions, and therefore need some treatment.  Starching or lacquering.  This means the sail will need to be formed and then will need some kind of forming mold to support it while it dries.

Secondly; Silkspan once painted, tends to demonstrate a crinkled or micro wrinkled texture.  In larger scaled vessels this might be acceptable...even if you are modeling drying sails.  Limp drying sails generally look wrinkled.

 

However, I want smooth tightly pressed/billowed sails.... and my years of experience with paper sails shows me that they will last...especially once painted.  They form very nicely and retail their shape...and being paper you can use simple white glue to make them.

 

This images demonstrates what I'm looking for.

[rwiederrich]

Here is another example of what I am trying to achieve.   Slight billowing that would be expected with a ship with all sails set....Cept stun'sls

 

Rob

[Dowmer]

What!!  No stun’sls!!!.......😫  But they are so characteristic of the clipper.....

 

Just kidding Rob, it’s going to look great. 😁

 

 

 

[Sailor1234567890]

Those were my thoughts as well. No stuns'ls... Too bad. Looking forward to seeing how she turns out though. Were there any other 4 masted extreme clippers built? I don't think so. 

[rwiederrich]

15 hours ago, Dowmer said:

What!!  No stun’sls!!!.......😫  But they are so characteristic of the clipper.....

 

Just kidding Rob, it’s going to look great. 😁

 

 

 

I know right....but the Great Republic didn't carry them during the period I am modeling........her expanse of sail was the largest ever placed on a sailing ship(120ft main sails)...and by the way...she wouldn't have set them on her journey down the coast from Boston to New York anyway.

Not one contemporary painting or model of her depicts her with stunn sails set.

 

I still have to rig the buntline blocks on the yard for the topgallant  and I'll be finished with that yard...and on to the upper topsail.

 

Pics will be forthcoming.

 

Rob(I know...*it never happened* unless you have pics)

[rwiederrich]

4 minutes ago, Sailor1234567890 said:

Those were my thoughts as well. No stuns'ls... Too bad. Looking forward to seeing how she turns out though. Were there any other 4 masted extreme clippers built? I don't think so. 

Read my remarks to Dawmer....Stun sails were not employed on the Great Republic...McKay designed her as an experiment.  Her vast array of canvas was considered sufficient, especially, when her designed trade route was for a fast passing around the Horn and to Australia.  In latitudes far too treacherous for stun sails.   I believe Palmer added them later, but that is when her redesign brought her back to a more traditional carrier. 

 

The Great Republic was a one of a kind vessel.   Extreme clipper(for speed), Ginormous(Over twice as large as any other clipper)...built like a tank to withstand the most extreme weather conditions...carried the most advanced winches and the first to carry a steam engine for lifting yards/sail and cargo.

 

She was designed to take on the Cape and all the fury the weather at those latitudes could throw at you.

Stun sails were for whooses.

 

Rob

[Dowmer]

4 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

Stun sails were for whoosies.

 

Ya!!!!!!!    😂 😂 😁

 

 

[rwiederrich]

46 minutes ago, Dowmer said:

 

Ya!!!!!!!    😂 😂 😁

 

 

Or for those stuck in the doldrums....heehee.

China tea clippers(British) were famous for rigging these fine weather sails nearly everywhere on their clippers....solidifying their characteristic billows on the annals of history.

 

Unfortunately for those who had anticipated them on my Great Republic build, I will not be including them.

 

Sorry to all stun sail enthusiasts.  

 

Here is a picture to wet your whistles.

[Tigersteve]

Rob,

I know you have a lot of projects going, but I’m looking forward to seeing this one completed. So- keep the momentum!

Steve

[rwiederrich]

I know... what a lame duck.  I have 4 clippers in various stages...the Glory of the Seas is probably the farthest along....but GR is surpassing her quickly.  Probably because I took up a different methodology of mast construction with the GR....and since she is on the bench currently....I'll finish her up first.

 

I'll have too.... because I have no other place to put her until I build her own special shelf...and she can't have my work bench and she surely can't sit in front of my clipper painting over the den mantle.

So....I'm forced to finish her first......

 

Stay tuned....I'll be at her soon.

 

Rob

[Bob Cleek]

I recall reading once in a pre-WWII British ship modeling publication that a modeler had built his model with fine cloth sails that billowed perfectly. There was a picture and it was impressive. His technique, as described, was to set an electric fan behind his model such that the sails filled (I presume he made provision to prevent the model from sailing off the table top!) and then brushed on a soaking of highly thinned acetate in acetone. Working downwind of that evaporating acetone might have been hazardous to his health, not to mention the consequences of smoking while doing so, but all else considered, it certainly worked well. The acetone evaporated very quickly, while the sails were filled, leaving the acetate to stiffen the cloth. When the sails dried and the fan was turned off, the sails were permanently and authentically formed.

 

That was a long time ago and I've not heard of the technique since, but something similar might be worth a bit of experimentation modernly. I'd suggest using a variable speed fan and starting on "slow," unless, of course, you wanted to depict your clipper with her sails blown out by a squall in the Roaring Forties! (Come to think of it, that would sure be some spectacular model!)

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Bob Cleek

[rwiederrich]

Here are some pics of the partially finished topgallant .

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

I'll be making some changes to the topsails...but I think I'm getting there.

 

Rob

[mtaylor]

4 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

I recall reading once in a pre-WWII British ship modeling publication that a modeler had built his model with fine cloth sails that billowed perfectly. There was a picture and it was impressive. His technique, as described, was to set an electric fan behind his model such that the sails filled (I presume he made provision to prevent the model from sailing off the table top!) and then brushed on a soaking of highly thinned acetate in acetone. Working downwind of that evaporating acetone might have been hazardous to his health, not to mention the consequences of smoking while doing so, but all else considered, it certainly worked well. The acetone evaporated very quickly, while the sails were filled, leaving the acetate to stiffen the cloth. When the sails dried and the fan was turned off, the sails were permanently and authentically formed.

 

That was a long time ago and I've not heard of the technique since, but something similar might be worth a bit of experimentation modernly. I'd suggest using a variable speed fan and starting on "slow," unless, of course, you wanted to depict your clipper with her sails blown out by a squall in the Roaring Forties! (Come to think of it, that would sure be some spectacular model!)

 

There's been a few builds around here using that method but with starch instead of acetone.

[Tim Curtis]

I have used vellum tracing paper with good outcomes. I stain it with tea (earl grey works best as it is not too red) and then dry it pressed inside blotting paper in a big book.

Here is a recent one (dry mounted). It has the slightly translucent quality of sailcloth, but also holds its shape well. I scratch on the seams with the back of a scalpel. Also, I pit some fine steel wire in the edges, where the paper is folded over to help it hold its shape. 

Also works quite well if you wet it, and furl it.

Apologies for photobombing your build log!

Edited November 1, 2018 by Tim Curtis

[rwiederrich]

No problem Tim....I have used tracing paper as well...especially for furled sails.  Your example is extremely nice and you achieved the very look I did.  Swell.

One reason I chose NOT to use opaque tracing paper on the Great Republic is her sails would have been more of the heavier foul weather canvas, due to the more Southerly  trade routes she was designed to travel, requiring more substantial canvas.  Therefore I avoided the opacity of a fair weather set of sails.  The main reason I did not use Silkspan.

Your examples are wonderful.  You chose to lighten your panel seams.. where I chose to darken them.

Looks like a topsail schooner.

 

Your sails look wonderful!

 

Thanks for posting.

Edited November 1, 2018 by rwiederrich

[druxey]

You can adjust the translucency of SilkSpan using acrylic paint washes.

[rwiederrich]

14 minutes ago, druxey said:

You can adjust the translucency of SilkSpan using acrylic paint washes.

See...now that is the technique sensitive issue I was talking about....thanks.

 

I've worked with Silkspan when building RC airplanes.  My experience with it in THIS application always leaves the sail with micro wrinkles.  Something I just wanted to avoid.

 

Maybe I just suck at using Silkspan.

 

Rob

[hollowneck]

Rob,

If you receive the NRG's Journal, I have written a detailed step-by-step tutorial on how to create "set" (billowing) sails with silkspan, including techniques and suggestions for painting. This is Part 2 to my article on HMS Swan diorama and will appear in this Winter's issue (I believe the first week of December for fulfillment). David Antscherl's tutorial on making silkspan sails is an excellent reference.

 

Your paper sails look very good. I would only add that silkspan material has a subtle texture that more accurately resembles canvas fabric, since in effect, it is a "fabric." Silkspan is pure white and needs to be painted (and "weathered" should that be appropriate).

Here are two pics of my HMS Swan sails showing the results of my silkspan techniques.

 

I hope this info is helpful.

Ron

[Sailor1234567890]

Rob,

Are you saying that GR's courses would not have been set on the run down the coast? At 120 foot they are massive of course. I wonder what they would have weighed? How deep were they? Handling sails of that size would have been one heck of a lot of work for the crew. How big was the crew? 150 or more? She'd certainly be a sight to see. Anybody know of a rich crazy billionaire who might be interested in footing the bill?

[rwiederrich]

19 minutes ago, hollowneck said:

Rob,

If you receive the NRG's Journal, I have written a detailed step-by-step tutorial on how to create "set" (billowing) sails with silkspan, including techniques and suggestions for painting. This is Part 2 to my article on HMS Swan diorama and will appear in this Winter's issue (I believe the first week of December for fulfillment). David Antscherl's tutorial on making silkspan sails is an excellent reference.

 

Your paper sails look very good. I would only add that silkspan material has a subtle texture that more accurately resembles canvas fabric, since in effect, it is a "fabric." Silkspan is pure white and needs to be painted (and "weathered" should that be appropriate).

Here are two pics of my HMS Swan sails showing the results of my silkspan techniques.

 

I hope this info is helpful.

Ron

Thank you very much Ron....your sails are impressive.

The only real issue I am working out is the geometry of the clew and the sheet in relations to the lower sheave.   The actual force of the wind full sail would cause the sheet and the angle of the clew to aim directly at the sheet sheave/block.

 

With heavy pre-formed sails this angle is compromised.  I am working on a solution.

 

I would like to get the newsletter. Your technique's are worth knowing.

 

Rob

[rwiederrich]

20 minutes ago, Sailor1234567890 said:

Rob,

Are you saying that GR's courses would not have been set on the run down the coast? At 120 foot they are massive of course. I wonder what they would have weighed? How deep were they? Handling sails of that size would have been one heck of a lot of work for the crew. How big was the crew? 150 or more? She'd certainly be a sight to see. Anybody know of a rich crazy billionaire who might be interested in footing the bill?

No...I'm saying she would not have set stuns'ls for the passage.  She possessed 100 able seamen and 30 boys.  Her massive yards and sails are why she had double winches for each mast and her patent steam engine to do all the heavy lifting.  I can't imagine the weight of those massive yards and the sails that draped from them...and when they got wet....Ohhh boy.  She must have been a sight.

 

Rob

[druxey]

Of course SilkSpan wrinkles with water-based paint, Rob - unless you pre-stretch it like watercolor paper. That solves the problem. See that booklet I referenced earlier.