HMCSS Victoria 1855 by BANYAN - 1:72

[Louie da fly]

On 7/2/2023 at 11:56 AM, BANYAN said:

I think his research is spot on for the flag and I am using it in the Victoria. 

Nice to hear. I only just got interested in that part of things. Interestingly, the Cerberus must have flown the current flag of the State of Victoria - at least until Federation in 1901 - as it was gazetted within a couple of years of the ship arriving here.

Steven

[wefalck]

Pat, yep, such lows in motivation happen in long-term projects. Glad to hear that you are back on it !

[rwiederrich]

On 7/2/2023 at 6:39 PM, BANYAN said:

Again, many thanks for thinking of me; much appreciated.

Pat...I continually think of you and your progress on Victoria.....and to mimic others, it seams like a life time since you shared an update.  No matter though, it is a marathon not a sprint....and we have no real time frames to follow do we.....?

 

Summer activates have nearly closed my shipyard down for 2 weeks thus far.....for myself.

 

But it is always a joy to see you post on Victoria.

 

Rob

[BANYAN]

Thanks Rob, I hope to post a small update early next week; I have been busy redoing the booms.  The though of the gaffs scares me a little as, at this scale, they will be less than two millimetres diameter at the most. 

 

cheers

 

Pat

[wefalck]

Personally, I would turn them from steel rod …

[Jim Lad]

Or hard brass to fight long term corrosion.

 

John

[BANYAN]

Good ideas, thanks Eberhard and John - that idea had not even ventured into my fading brain cells.  I'll give that a shot and hopefully find a way to 'mimic' the wood with paint.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[BANYAN]

Hi folks, sorry I have gone a little quiet again in this log but I have been doing a little further research to allow me to complete the booms.  I had to determine what the odd conformal shapes were on the booms near the outer end.  This also led me to determining I had positioned the spiderbands at the wrong point.  I had believed they were positioned at the GD (given diameter) when in fact they were further out in Victoria - this has led to me having to remake the spiderbands     I have still to do the new ones, but practice makes perfect they say. 

 

I am also trying to determine how to make the reefing combs (those conformal fittings I referred to earlier) - see the attached.  At 1:72 these are only 1.5mm deep so a little fiddly to make - still thinking on the 'how' for now.  These were used to rig the reefing pendants.  One end was led through the hole opposite it associated sheave and stoppered with a knot, the pendant was then rove through it associated reefing cringle and down through the sheave.  The tail was then worked with a reefing tackle as required when reefing the fore-and-aft sail.

 

The attached is my CAD drawing of the outer end of the main boom.  It shows the combs and the spiderband, and the outer sheave.  There is also an iron band on the very end/tip of the boom.

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by BANYAN

[wefalck]

At 1:72 scale perhaps I would brush over the fact that the sheaves were in slots of these battens and just set them into notches. 

[Louie da fly]

I'd agree. Unless you really want to be that precise (and give yourself problems), I think notches would be the way to go. The sheaves themselves would be all but invisible anyway, as they would be mostly hidden by the pendant.

 

Nice to see you back on the build, by the way.

 

Steven

[BANYAN]

I couldn't agree more Eberhardt and Steven.  My plan was to simply put in some notches (about 0.75mm long) and the holes at 0.5mm, hoping the squared longer holes/slots would look the part - well that is the plan at the moment.  I am just about to experiment with the same wood (Ballarat Pear) I have used for the boom and jaws hoping it will hold the defined squared slot shape.

 

Thanks for the wishes Steven.  I have been doing some work in the background experimenting with the spiderbands, boom saddles etc and think I have resolved my way ahead with those fittings.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[BANYAN]

Okay, I finally committed to attempting some of these fittings.  Attached is a trial piece (blackened) which was sized for the mainsail boom, and the actual spider band for the topping lifts and sheet blocks of the foresail boom. With the test/trial band you might notice the ear loops are different sizes where I experimented with what looked best/more correct - I also got a little too aggressive with the filing (removal of the solder etc).  I still have some clean-up to do on the loops of the actual piece to try ad polish out some of the 'jaw marks' as I had to forcefully manipulate the ends into their receiver holes before soldering them.

 

The booms have been made and the jaws fitted to them, but I am still determining the best material to use, and the easiest way to form the reefing combs before finalising the booms.  Still ahead are the boom hoops for the jaws, and the hoop at the very end of the boom.

 

Slow progress but getting there.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Tony Hunt]

Wow Pat, they look really good. So tiny!

[BANYAN]

Thanks Tony, very fiddly little things indeed.

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

 

[rwiederrich]

Pat...great job...soldering them must have been a trial?  I probably would have drilled all the holes tightly fit in all the eyebolts and large slide rings into their holes...then simply soldered everything and then ground out the excess from within the band....all in two steps.   Or, (My typical method), I would have taken the sloppy, lazy road and drilled the holes and after the band was placed on the spar, then redrill into the wood spar and insert the eyebolts and slide rings in place and glued them in....THEN blackened it on the spar.  No soldering.  The end result looks the same. 😏     However you accomplished it,...they look very fine.

 

I suppose you have just a few more to make......🙃.

 

Rob

Edited August 16, 2023 by rwiederrich

[Glen McGuire]

That's some serious soldering skills, Pat.  Well done.

[Keith Black]

 Pat, it's so nice to see you back working on Victoria. Your research and keen eye for detail coupled with your ability to make Victoria's bits and pieces is a pleasure to watch. 

[BANYAN]

11 hours ago, rwiederrich said:

I probably would have drilled all the holes tightly fit in all the eyebolts and large slide rings into their holes...then simply soldered everything and then ground out the excess from within the band....all in two steps.   Or, (My typical method), I would have taken the sloppy, lazy road and drilled the holes and after the band was placed on the spar, then redrill into the wood spar and insert the eyebolts and slide rings in place and glued them in

Thanks for looking in and suggestions Rob, much appreciated.  I did the former. 

 

After placing the eyes and the 'ears', I soldered everything in one go, then cleaned out the excess by grinding and filing.  I had to be careful there as in my test piece I was little excessive and filed some corrugations into the band by thinning the edges too much.  I couldn't use the second method you suggested as the boom is less than 2mm at this point and drilling four holes will probably have broken the boom at that point.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited August 17, 2023 by BANYAN

[BANYAN]

Thanks for looking in Glen and Keith, I very much appreciate your supportive comments. 

 

It's actually good to be getting back into it Keith.  One benefit of the slow down though is that I have been able to refine some of the research.  Whereas I initially believed the spiderbands to be located at the Given Diameter (GD), or hance, of the boom, it eventually proved to be located much further out.  If I had rushed in and glued them in situ at the GD, I would have had to remake the booms (for a third time )

 

cheers

 

Pat

[rwiederrich]

12 hours ago, BANYAN said:

I couldn't use the second method you suggested as the boom is less than 2mm at this point and drilling four holes will probably have broken the boom at that point.

2mm?  HOW in the world can you fit all the items you need to solder onto a copper band no larger than 2mm ID?   I'm perplexed......  From your scaled image it appears the bands are apox. 4mm ID.

 

Rob

[BANYAN]

Good question Rob, and a good pick-up - thanks for keeping me honest .  I should have been a little clearer in my descriptions. 

 

The fore and mainsail booms were about 3.5mm to 3.8mm ID; the Driver boom is only 2.8mm (in my haste I left the decimal out) - BUT it is frustrating and very fiddly trying to get those fitting on.  That particular band is testing my patience at the moment . The eyes and ears are made from 0.3mm brass wire for the Driver band, and 0.5mm wire for the former ones - BTW the ear's ID is only 1.5mm long with less than 1mm gap.   My description was intended more for the Driver boom spiderband, as I need to make that one the same way for them all to look alike.  I was simply trying to point out the risks in 'fixing/making' the bands using the drilling method.  I learned this through some major frustration in having to remake the jibboom a few times as I tried that at 3.25mm and it kept breaking - hence my reluctance.  Sorry for any confusion folks.

 

The way I make them is:-  I find the nearest size (ID) thin-wall brass tube under the circumference of the boom at the fitting point then stretch it to size to thin the wall further.  I thin fit it to a wood dowel mandrel to hold it while I put it in my mill holding the mandrel in the chuck of my horizontal indexing tool.  I then drill the holes using a 0.5mm micro spade type drill bit (which I found in England) at the appropriate spacing.  I bend the ears using a JB Tools tool (used for making grab handles etc in trains and tanks etc) at the appropriate size to form 'U' shaped ears that I then manipulate (to get the appropriate leg angles) and with a LOT of frustration eventually get them to sit in their holes (that's why there are pliers grip marks on them).  The eyes are twisted using very thin diameter brass wire and placed in their holes.  I then apply the flux and solder chips and solder all in one go.  The inner dag ends are then cut away and/or filed to smooth and clean the inside of the band.  Hopefully this clarifies the situation a little?

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited August 19, 2023 by BANYAN

[Boccherini]

Pat,

Nice work.

Are you silver soldering the 0.3mm wire? If so, good heat control not melting the wire.

 

Regards,

Grant.

[rwiederrich]

Great follow-up explanation Pat.  I appreciate the clarity.  Personally, I avoid soldering whenever possible these days.  Typically, I always find a lazier way to accomplish the task.

 

Great work indeed my friend.

 

Rob

[BANYAN]

Thanks Rob, appreciate the kind comment. I don't blame you for avoiding the soldering.  (see following comment)

 

Thanks Grant, appreciated.  To be clear on the soldering, I use solder that has silver content rather than the full-on silver solder.  These come in various melting points which allow me to place items close to each other without disturbing the earlier higher melting point joints where I do that (not in this case).  The other big advantage, and relevant to Rob's comment, is that some time ago I invested in a resistance soldering unit (American Beauty) which allows much better control of where and how much heat you place.  If it wasn't for this unit, I also think I would not attempt anything this small (especially with the shakes in my hands these days ).  I am also starting to experiment with heat gel to protect some joints (heat sinks) but at this size a little difficult to place it properly.  I find that dialling down the current of the solder unit to minimum, I can solder wire down to 0.2mm or so.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Boccherini]

0.2mm, impressive. I might try soldering some 0.27mm wire with my oxy acetylene Little torch to see if It's possible. 

What's the heat gel you're using?

 

Grant.

[BANYAN]

I thought I should add some photos to also help explain how I go about the process.

The first shows the tools I use for the metal forming part, which include a pair of pliers with serrated grip jaws, a couple of needle files, a small 0.5mm spade bit used in my mill (next photo), a jewellers type metal block (can't remember the name) but it allows me to hold tubes of various shapes at 90, 45 and 30 degrees and cut off small pieces to width, and the JB Tools grab handle making tool.

 

The second shows the set-up with the band on the wood mandrel in the rotary indexing attachment for the Sherline mill.

 

The last shows the band, which has now been drilled to indexed angles at 020, 100, 160, 200, 260 and 330 degrees, being held in my alligator jaws in a soldering station I have cobbled together (still being improved).

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by BANYAN

[Louie da fly]

My brain hurts.

 

Steven

[wefalck]

I gather I should finally get a resistance soldering kit ...

[BANYAN]

Hi Grant, sorry I missed your question.  If you are OK with it, I'll get back to you once I am happy with one as I don't want to lead people astray if it doesn't work.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[Boccherini]

Thanks. Take your time, it's not urgent.

 

Grant.