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By the Deep 17 by dafi - Royal Navy 1780/1805, display - Finished


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As a small Easter surprise, a small project I am working on to try out some things, just to see ...
 
Small flash back: From my first casting trials, i had left a piece of formed resin ...
 
800_Victory-guss_3030.jpg
 
... uand it was saying "Hy" to me all the time :-)

 

 

 

First the standards: out the scaler and eliminating the "wood"-grains ...
 
Deep17-130222_6494.jpg
 
.... thinning the backsides ...
 
Deep17-130222_6499.jpg
 
... redoing the ports (middle) ...
 
Deep17-130222_6500.jpg
 
... nicely to be seen from the back.
 
Deep17-130223_6501.jpg
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Fixed on the display by a screw ...

 

Deep17-130223_6503.jpg

 

... etch parts and new rails fitted ...

 

Deep17-130223_6506.jpg

 

... and pictures we know from my Victory build like carving timberheads ...

 

Deep17-130223_6518.jpg

 

... filling the badly drilled dead eyes ...

 

Deep17-130225_6519.jpg

 

... making the chainplates ...

 

Deep17-130226_6521.jpg

 

... the channels - at least one - ...

 

Deep17-130228_6523.jpg

 

... new profiles and the first blow bigger of the project: the hull got new planks of better dimensions ...

 

Deep17-130229_6526.jpg

 

... and a tad of color to see what I am doing.

 

Deep17-130229_6528.jpg

 

Happy Easter, Daniel

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Thank you Druxey, I am shure it will proove interesting and fun to myself. 

 

But where does this lead? To the usual twists and confusions in dafis world of modelism :-)

 

After the first coat of primer I left the can on the balcony, stupid idea, as the color got to cold ...

 

Deep17-130229_6530.jpg

 

... which I was mad aware by an apart giraffe pattern on the model :-(

 

So back to zero and take down the paint with the help of a scaler. 

 

Deep17-130229_6532.jpg

 

... reworked the splitlines ...

 

Deep17-130230_6533.jpg

 

... and saw (PUN!) the results of this unexpected action. The scratching down the color left some rattling marks.

 

One needs to be able to see and realise, but these rattle marks look very much like the marks of handsawn wood, also seen on older ships.

 

I was already looking for a long time how to differenciate a painted steel hull from a painted wooden hull. I think with the slightly uneven levels of the different planks, the different dimensions of the gaps in between the planks and the rattle marks, I am coming quite close to the look I am looking for :-)

 

 

And now we come to the typical dafinistic approach in model making: Destruction!!!

 

Deep17-130230_6536.jpg

 

... hihihihihihihi...

 

... and hohoho, snailed around a bit ...

 

Deep17-130230_6538.jpg

 

... rebuild the rails to slightly different dimensions ...

 

Deep17-130230_6539.jpg

 

... and redoing the splitlines with the help of Dymo tape.

 

Deep17-130230_6542.jpg

 

...hihihihihihi...

 

XXXDAn
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And then some white priming and then the part I was most looking for - The color trials:

 

deep17-130401b.jpg

 

And this could have given a nice first of April Easter nest :-)

 

...hihihihihi...

 

XXXDAn
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if you believe, you could escape of that one so easily, you could be wrong.

Do not forget, model making is a serious business ;-)

 

As said before, some color tests were to be done on a casein base ...

 

Depp17_6552b.jpg

 

... looking spectacular, but far too fooked up :-)

 

The good thing on the casein paint is, take a wet cloth and just wipe and redo .-)

 

Cheers, Daniel

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The most difficuklt task for me: waaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiitiiiiing until the paint gets dry enough ...

 

more trials with the casein paint ...

 

Deep17_6560c.jpg

 

Deep17_6560b.jpg

 

...  and oil paint diluted with original Zippo lighter fuel.

 

Deep17_6560a.jpg

 

And it looks much different now.

 

Also see some small thoughts about "As times go by" ...


 

XXXDAn
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And now the weekend´s results ...

 

Two new hull pieces of the 1805 version and the applied parts...

 

Deep17-130408_6562.jpg

 

... first the origials, then the copies and with the molds.

 

Deep17-130408_6565.jpg

 

Nice to ee the differences in the colors, position of the channels, the anchor protections and the timberheads.

 

Grüßle, Daniel
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Slowly things are starting to get messy ;-) 

 

deep17-hull_6566.jpg

 

This state still was too fooked, even though already twice reduced. The casein paint is easily to be gradually removed by wet brush, or if far too much by a wet cloth. Here the collection of paints, large brush, the inlay of a sweets box for mixing ...

 

deep17-hull_6570.jpg

 

... here taking off the paint with brush, pipe cleaner and Q-Tipp, afterwards more paint in different shades, allow extremely weeeeeeeeeel drying and taking the exceed of if necessary.

 

deep17-hull_6571.jpg

 

Funnily both samples are coming closer together.

 

deep17-hull_6572.jpg

 

Made the marks of the scuppers, the black not only being dirt but also the often seen black rot of the surface and gaps if wood is continuously confronted with wet dirt.

 

deep17-hull_6576.jpg

 

And both trials in comparission.

 

deep17-hull_6577.jpg

 

And finally the hinges added and integrated with some shades.

 

Deep17_hull_6593.jpg

 

All the best, Daniel

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So a little bit of basic work.

 

The aim is to explore how a hull could have been looking before the wasp-lines came up. So it should be "paid bright with rosin". Contemporary pictures and models show a light/bright color. If I understand well, it could still have been a bit transparent. In german wikipedia rosin is mentioned to be used for painting violins.

 

Also the sources give rosin diluted with turpetine. Both products are result from distilling resin from special pine trees. Does that mean, that some color was still aded to get the bright look?  

 



 

Some contemporary models:



 

Some contemporary paintings




 

Here some pictures that Blue Ensign was showing in another thread, thank you! 






 

Concerning the black marks on the Scuppers. I do not se them in first place as dirt, but much more this kind of nasty black mold, like it happens to get if does not air the shower regularly. The ship was not wet the whole time, harbors, nice weather or calms. The water coming out was for sure not too clean and once this stuff is there it is difficult to get rid off.

 

Interestingly, the paining of the Victory by Monamie Swaine shows some darker vertical lines exactly in the distance the scuppers were. Also the colors were a guideline for may trials. This picture is a bit darker to better show the lines.

 

HMS%20Victory%20Monamy%20Swaine.jpg 

 

Back to the pictures of the Neptune: Link # 1 shows the fresh paint, #2 already paler, #3 worse and #5 really fooked. The end is completely pale wood or the black mold growing over the completely hull.

 

Here some more pictures of different woods and paints. But the results are quite common. The paint in a good condition in protected areas and less good in exposed ones. All corners, nails and edges left marks on the wood.

 

Allgaeu-090704_0578.jpg 

 

Austria111022_6696.jpg 

 

Austria-090415_9001.jpg 

 

 

Here the deck was painted at one time. In protected areas it is still to be seen.

 

Bretagne-20100601_8140.jpg 

 

Bretagne-20100527_7257.jpg 

 

Bretagne-20100527_7256.jpg 

 

After a long period, the color becomes more uniform.

 

Bretagne-20100528_7650.jpg 

 

 

And here some old paint with rust ...

 

Bretagne-20100528_7659.jpg 

 

Bretagne-20100528_7662.jpg

 

 

Grüßle, Daniel
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Also the sources give rosin diluted with turpetine. Both products are result from distilling resin from special pine trees. Does that mean, that some color was still aded to get the bright look? 

 

 The term "bright" means the woodwork was varnished rather than painted. No pigment would have been used on brightwork. The term is applied to both varnished woodwork, and polished metalwork on ships and boats.

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Hello Mark, Michael, Mike and Robin,

 

thank you all. Mike, are there any contemporary sources confirming this?

Is it really a reddish appearence like I expect by name and contemporary violin paints?

 

Cheers, Daniel

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I don't have any contemporary sources, but look up the term "brightwork" in the online Merriam-Webster dictionary. Also, from Howard Chapelle's Boatbuilding:

 

"Varnished or oiled decks are called 'bright decks' and are perhaps one of the highest tests of workmanship a builder has to meet."

 

And here's a link to the Google books page on Brightwork: the Art of Finishing Wood by Rebecca Wittman, with a good description of what brightwork is.

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Hello Daniel,

 

Wow, Now that is what I call mixed medium - resin and wood.

 

Very nice casting indeed. I shall experiment with that type of work in the near future, as the twin 105mm calibre anti-aircraft guns for the Scharnhorst, shall consist of 900 pieces each, and I have 7 mountings to do. So I have to do a bit of mass production to be able to do all the parts required.

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Here we go again ...
 
The chainwhales/ancor protection fitted ...
 
deep17_6961.jpg
 
... and remembered the wasp-twins. So painted, redrawn the grooves, guide is the plastic stripe from a labeling machine ...
 
deep17_6927.jpg
 
... and treated the bottom one with a diluted blach ink to enhance structures. The top is the usual clean version
 
deep17_6953.jpg
 
Casted new iron brackets ...
 
deep17_6955.jpg
 
... and made more mess.
 
deep17_6956.jpg
 
Then added some rust, some scupper delicacies, some rust from all the iron work and some chipped color as nicely to be seen on todays Vic.
 
deep17_6960.jpg
 
A bit rough at the first moment, but if one consider the ships being out for months on blockade duty, I believe this was not the worst ...
 
And if one looks at the Surprise in San Diego ...

http://xpda.com/junkmail/junk163/pict9072.jpg

... surprise, surprise ...

 

 
 
 
Cheers, Daniel
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Just realised, that one part of the basic research was missing here ...

 

 

I was researching more about the aging of ships. Unsually we tend to display the ships in a freshly build and painted state. Some bold versions show the ships in quite "wrecked" appearances. But I do believe, that most of their life, the ships were somewhere in between.
 
This made me have a closer look. I chose the following 3 ships, as I knew, that there is quite good documentation in the web.
 
First the Neptune in Genove (Google pictures: Neptune/ship/genova), light wooden hull
 
Funny to compare the freshly painted version with the neglected one. Nice to see the better condition in protected areas like underneath the channels. Exposed areas like underneath the cathead look much more tattered. Was this also on seagoing ships that extreme or is this more of a harboring effect? But also ships spent long times in harbor do to waiting, winter sleep or being in ordinary.
 
 
And the Gotheburg (Google: Gotheburg, ship), dark wooden hull
 
By the dark hull, the effects are not as visible like on the neptune. Funny to see the fresh scratch marks on the whales in some of the pictures
 
Then theHMS Surprise (Google: surprise, rose, san diego), painted hull
HMSSurpriseQtrbow800.jpg
and my favorites:
 
Also here by the degradation of the paint, one can exactly tell which year the picture was taken ;-)
The difference in between the fresh and the tattered is amazing.
Nice to see bleaching, rust, chipped color, algae on the waterline, patches and so  
 
Also do not forget: Ships were build over some period, where the wood was alraedy exposed. So even a brand new ship usually was unlikely to show fresh wood in larger areas. But therefor repaired areas would stick out. On the other side I have never seen the patchwork on deckplanks like often shown in plastic models.
 
Amicalement, Daniel
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Thank you Kevin,

 

this will be another interesting story. Be shure one day it will come :-)

 

 

And now something completely different ...
Even though I cant tell how much colorisation was done afterwards, two interisting versions of the same photo, possibly HMS Implacable.
 
Also nice picture 3, that make my trials look brand new ;-)
 
XXXDAn
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So what would be a dafithread without Dafinism?

 

Already I wondered that nobody did moan, as I did not bolt the channel onto the gunwale but on top of it instead ?!?

 

...

 

...

 

... so dafi does what dafi knows best ...

 

... DESTRUCTION!!! ...

 

deep17_6971.jpg

 

Positively seen, this gave a nice test, if the technic is dafiproof - If I mange to cover up the damages caused by this little action, I am on the right way :-)

 

So fixed the channels on the right hight ...

 

deep17_6975.jpg

 

... coverd the holes with the basic color, first layers with three different shades of brown ...

 

deep17_6977.jpg

 

... and drying-washing of-adding more-and-so-on and it goes the right direction :-)

 

deep17_6979.jpg

 

Close enough to the original version, so I am quite happy ;-)

 

XXXDAn

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Sooooooo after some time finally managed to do some new bricotage ...

 

... fitted the deadeyes ...

 

deep17_130501_6980.jpg

 

... used the revolutionairy Double-Twin-Super-Drive-Technology for grinding the needle heads ...

 

deep17_130501_6985.jpg

 

... put the batten ...

 

deep17_130501_6989.jpg

 

... and it looks even neater than the bits on my Vic :-)

 

deep17_130501_6991.jpg

 

Too take this back added some paint and rust ...

 

deep17_130501_6998.jpg

 

deep17_130501_7004.jpg

 

deep17_130501_7006.jpg

 

deep17_130501_7009.jpg

 

... and tomorrow once the paint is well dried, I can take it back a tad and do the finetuning :-)

 

Lieber Gruß, Daniel
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I can't speak for others, but the weathering is so fascinating that I missed the channnel location.  But then again, it's the Victory and wouldn't know the proper place to begin with.  Now about the finetuning... does this mean it will be better?  Better than great!????

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Here both versions side by side, same ship, only 40 years of difference in between ...

 

Deep17_7010.jpg

 

Deep17_7012.jpg

 

... fascinating, as a good friend of mine would say ;-)

 

Got the gun carriages messed and gave a brownisch oil coat to the barrels as some of the ingredients - rust and tar - suggest ...

 

Deep17_7014.jpg

 

... and the tompions plain without color, sticking out and not todays fancy thread in the middle, as the artifacts in NMM and museums suggest. Just one try with a line that goes around, but it does not look to convincing.

 

The shoe for the anchor was fixed in the appropriate place and that is the thing for the moment :-)

 

Deep17_7013.jpg

 

Cheers, Daniel

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