74-gun ship by Gaetan Bordeleau - 1:24

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

first photo :  2 photos of a 74 guns at 1/24 scale, the only difference is the date: 1 photos is dated 2008 and one 2019.

 

second photo: did I really shaped the closest deck beam  with a circle arc so big?  Not really, it is  a lens deformation because  the lens is too close to the deck beam.

[VACorsair]

Holy Moley!!  Look at the fit and finish on this work!!!  I think we have a Montanes' level worker here!!! 

[cog]

only this person does it somewhat longer ... VAC orsair

[cog]

Gaetan,

The deformation a the front of the ship in the picture, it will always occur, but will it with every lens? What about a "tilt & shift" lens. It does happen in reality too, e.g. when you paint something on the floor and stand off far enough it will get shorter, our eyes' optical illusion

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Carl

4 hours ago, cog said:

but will it with every lens?

 

Of course not, it depends of the lens. In this case, this is the lens of the small action camera Yi 4K which has a wide angle lens of 155 degrees with distortion. This do not necessary means it is a cheap lens even if it is really but it shows a very clear example of what not to do.

 

In the category of the wide angle lens, there are lens with minimal distortion. This meaning a straight line will stay straight and will not curve. The other category is the fish eye. This kind of lens is not interesting for us because this kind of lens like to create artistic curves.

I have never tried a tilt and shift lens but I often use a wide angle lens with minimal distortion and what is also interesting with that lens is that you can be very close to the subject. Here is an example: the camera was at the opposite of the gallery but stuck on it.

[druxey]

There is a pull-down menu for reducing/eliminating lens distortion on programs such as Adobe Photoshop. It lists a huge variety of specific manufacturers and their lenses. I don't know whether this includes ultra wide-angle lenses.

[cog]

druxey,

I know I could straighten a line in e.g. Adobe Photoshop, but it would diminish the quality of the image, and reate other - maybe not immediately apperent - distortions. I am not pro image manipulation, in fact I am against it, but that is personal as is the reason behind that. To get the best image as a source, i.e. before any manipulation, will make the end result better too, That is quite simple to say, but to accomplish ... another story. That's why I like Gaetan's build log, both model wise, as photographic wise, he delivers a wealth of information, and throws up questions I wouldn't think of otherwise

[druxey]

It's a matter of personal taste, Carl. I mainly use the perspective correction feature for architectural photos. I like verticals to look that way!

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

I just wanted to show an extreme, in fact the remedy is easy just back up to take the photo.

 

Major update for Vossiewulf:

 

just came back from LeeValley and got a flushing chisel blade, PM-V11 steel, a new product which is almost the perfect  blank for the next knife. As for the others, the blade will be regrind in a V shape and I will add a handle.

 

I thought I would use a hand plane  blade and  cut it in 2 parts, but this solution will be faster. Hand plane blade are too thick. I did take some hand plane in my hands and I was surprise to see how heavy they were.

 

[cog]

3 hours ago, druxey said:

It's a matter of personal taste, Carl. I mainly use the perspective correction feature for architectural photos. I like verticals to look that way!

Indeed, as I said as well, druxey. That's why I have, amongst others, invested in a Tilt Shift lens, a very ingeneous piece of engineering ... you really should have a try with that for architectural photography. Here we can rent a lens ... it is a nice wat to try befor you buy, or just to use it when you need it sporadically and are not willing to invest in such a lens

 

3 hours ago, Gaetan Bordeleau said:

I just wanted to show an extreme, in fact the remedy is easy just back up to take the photo.

 

Althoug, there are situations one can't ...

Nice blade Gaetan

[the learner]

Interesting Build and progressive photography discussion!  

[druxey]

I recall tilt shift lenses in the old 4 x 5 and 8 x 10 plate cameras used for architectural work. Expensive toys!

 

Nice blade from our dealer of choice, Lee Valley.

[vossiewulf]

3 hours ago, Gaetan Bordeleau said:

Major update for Vossiewulf:

 

Great news Gaetan! I will be very interested to see how it turns out. 

[42rocker]

Outstanding Thread. Your workshop and modeling and photo skills are outstanding. Thanks for sharing. 

 

Later Tim

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Thank you all for your likes

 

This log  have observations about 2 things, 2 things that I like 

 

-construction of a model ship boat

-experimentation in photography

 

When you see a guy crazy enough to build a  74 guns by Boudriot for the fourth time, you probably ask what's wrong with me.

 

Learning is important for everyone because without it, life would not be as motivating. Probably, if I could build 100 times the same ship, there would be differences in each and every one.

Here is an example, on the last 74,  the deck beams for the first deck were made of 1,2 and 3 parts. For this build, there will be no 2 parts. In the previous build, I added 2 parts beams when there was opening in the deck because I did not want to have nicks int the beams  around openings.

 

For this build, at first thought, all the deck beams would be installed the same direction, but it will not be the case. Some will be turn 180 degrees so that the thickest face is expose facing the opening.

 

There are 2 advantages by going this way. First, when there will be notches in the deck beam, it will not be on the side of the thinnest wall of the deck beam which could seriously injure the integrity and strongly weaken the resistance of the wood; and this is not desirable, The other advantage is that walls of the openings are in straight line with no nicks.

 

Boudriot did not show this kind of details, he just says that there was 3 parts deck beams on the first deck. Ideally, the plan would show the partition of the deck beams, but this is not the case. Ideally, if I build or install a part, there always would be documentation to support it. I have no access to the books hidden in the museum in France and for this build, research in other books is not my priority.

 

What is encouraging in what I do, is the fact that the engineer who draw the plans for ships, perfectly knew that the builder, the site manager would bring some of his preferences and some derived conventions governing each construction site.

 

This build for instance, contrary to the standard model ship builder has 0 research in books (except the 4 ones of Boudriot) Also, this is not because  a plan is drawn a way that I will necessary build it the exact same way. In some situations, instead of looking in books, I sit in front of the problem, and I try to find a practical solution. For the perfect model ship builder who respects scrupulously History, I am commiting a  serious sacrilege. Is it a fault to go the way I chose for this build? For the purist, of course!  

 

Construction is my favorite part in this project, research is at the opposite. For the aspect  of the respect of the conformity of plans, I will get 0. But from the other point of view, I have a very  good time trying to play to the ship builder.

 

If I take pleasure from model ship building, so one of the main goal is reached.

 

If I would have to choose between 3 months of research and 3 months of construction, I would probably choose the second one. But it does not mean I hate research. One  fact I find interesting about research is about rigging of a gun. Here is another comparison between french and english. Boudriot  as an architect loved ships but he also loved hand guns. He described with great details how to install ropes not only for the mast, but also on the guns of each deck. In comparison, this does not look like to be the same thing with english practices. The best example, is Mark's log with Bellona. Documentation for the subject has not yet become fully accessible. But the good side of that bad side is that people like Mark helps to enhance the knowledge about model ship building and also it is very interesting to see how so many peoples wants to try to this knowledge.

 

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

The main tool to shape the blade is  the belt grinder.  The PM-V11 steel is not like any other steel, it does make very few sparks. I choose briar wood (wood use tom make pipes) and ebony to make the handle. During that quest for a detail knife, I did concentrate exclusively on the blade, I never thought what would be the shape of a good handle, and I still do not know but I wanted to do that knife so I tried one simple shape with 2 recess, 1  for the  index  and 1 for the 3 other fingers. I still have to do some final grinding but that shape of blade is very effective and this blade will not have the quality of my last one; fragility of the blade  at the thinnest part. Also this V blade is very easy to sharpen on water stones because the entire side sits on the water stone and this way you do not have to give any angle to form a secondary bevel.

[cog]

what's the grain on the beltsander if you don't mind me asking?

[vossiewulf]

Very nice Gaetan, it looks great, and that's a nice handle wood too. The square point is a little unusual, but if it doesn't interfere with your cuts it certainly adds more strength overall.

 

That's interesting about the sparks, the spark stream is a standard metal composition test that is usually pretty accurate. Are the sparks less than those when you are grinding HSS?

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Hi Carl,

 

It is a belt sander # 80 for metal and  the speed is higher than what it would be for wood.

 

Hi Vossiewulf,

 

I did concentrate on the V shape only, it is true that a small angle will give more the look of a knife. I will add some. when completing the finishing. Interesting reference about the spark test.

I compared  with HSS the color is also orange but a lighter color. I could not say what metal is added, I am not familiar with this test.

[vossiewulf]

They will probably have to add new categories to the spark test for powdered metals. They are not real alloys in the sense that the component metals were never mixed while fully melted, so they can be made up of metal ratios that would never be used in traditional alloying, and that's going to lead to odd spark test results.

 

In the case of PM-V11, it has a much more vanadium than is ever used in normal alloys, somehow that is yielding a spark test result that is similar to HSS.

 

Also now that you are going to be fully in the knife sharpening business, I suggest you look at Shapton Glass Stones. I have a large drawer overflowing with all types of sharpening stones- water stones, ceramics, diamond, if someone has made it I've tried it. The best by far in terms of both metal removal rate and stone flatness is the Shapton Glass. Water stones work very well, but they are 1) very messy and 2) very soft, they have to be constantly flattened to avoid a curved stone surface that will never sharpen a perfectly flat bevel. 

 

I've been using my Shapton Glass stones for 6 or 7 years now and have yet to have to flatten them. They also remove metal faster than anything I've tried, including water stones. I use 1000/4000/8000 and finish with a strop, and I have a 220 grit stone for reshaping bevels.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Does a Gimbal head can help me to build the 74?

 

First, what is a Gimbal head? On the first photo, on the left there is a big lens, which can be heavy to hold for a long period. A gimbal head  can hold that lens and the camera. The combine weight of the lens and the camera is 0 when these 2 components are well balanced on that head.

 

There is another kind of Gimbal head with 3 motors, used for the alignment, horizontally, vertically and for panning (turning on itself on 360 degrees).  With this Gimbal head, everything is done automatically and different kind of cameras can be install. With the small camera, having a too small weight, a weight is added to counterbalanced. The real purpose of that tool is for action film when the camera is moving, the combined action of the 3 motors are  stabilizing continuously the camera.

 

Now, to answer the question, and this is the beauty of this tool, it can attach a camera or a level and  when we insert it inside the ship, there will be no need to realign the level or the camera. This solves the problem that I have when I take a photo inside or use the level , it is always difficult to align the horizontal plan; with this tool, alignment is automatic in both axes: horizontal and vertical. So, here is a gadget, interesting to use but absolutely not essential!

[druxey]

Nice toy!

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

 

[vossiewulf]

I don't have too much more to tell you, you understand all the factors now  From here it's just refinements of the knives you have, and maybe purchasing or making some special purpose knives (like matched left/right single bevel knives).

 

With the Shapton Glass stones, yes they are very expensive for very high grits, but really who needs a 30,000 grit stone anyway? That level of fine polishing is best handled with a strop.

 

The other item WRT Shapton stones that is expensive is the special stone they make that is designed to flatten the Shapton Glass stones when necessary. Don't buy it. First, as I've said, they stay flat for a very long time. Second, even if you do need to flatten them, it can be done with a much less expensive diamond stone or even silicon carbide sandpaper taped to a flat surface.

 

I wouldn't recommend buffing wheels, it's very easy to round the edge that way. Actually it's quite hard to use one without rounding the edge to some degree. If you do use one, you need a very firm felt wheel, you need to have it rotating away from the blade edge, and you need a very fine touch- if you press down at all into the wheel it will begin to round your nice V-shaped edge.

 

Also, it looks to me like your test was accurate, that's pretty much the order I would have guessed for that knife collection. The thing you'll like about your PM-V11 blade is it will stay sharp for a comparatively long time, so besides performing best it will require resharpening the least.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

You are right about the buffing wheel (the 2 to the left side) but during the process of sharpening a new blade, I need to use it even if it is 1 step forward, 2 steps back. If I try to give a mirror polish to the sides, it would take me 10 times more by hand. I also use  a deburring wheel from 3M, the 2 middle ones in the photo and the biggest one performs  a lot better than the smallest one. Additionally, I use the big one for buffing I use the front and the sides.

 

After that test, I strongly think that Exacto blade do not classify in the sharp knife category.

 

 

[vossiewulf]

3 hours ago, Gaetan Bordeleau said:

After that test, I strongly think that Exacto blade do not classify in the sharp knife category.

Welcome to my world, where I have to watch good people trying very hard to do good precise work with Xacto knives, it's like trying to mow your lawn after replacing the lawnmower blade with a butter knife.

 

If you want an amusing experiment, take an Xacto blade to a strop. You'll see you can quickly remove large amounts of metal just with the ultra fine grit of a strop. I don't think they even qualify as high carbon tool steel, they're probably Rc52 or somewhere close.

 

I try to lead as many as possible to a better solution but 1) most don't realize how much sharper a good knife is, and 2) think that sharpening is a long arduous task, whereas resharpening one of my knives takes me about 15 minutes once a month or so.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Vossiewulf, I agree 100% with what you say.

 

1 hour ago, vossiewulf said:

how much sharper a good knife is

 

This look like to be very easy to understand, but it is not. Exacto is the prefered knife of every beginner. As a beginner, how someone could conceive ''how much sharper  a good knife is'' if he has never tried one. It is worth mentioning that the usual way to check if a knife is sharpened  with a sheet of paper, it is not very conclusive because they all pass the test.  In the second test, if you compare the result of the notches in  the wood between the first and the last knife, you see a big difference; and the same strength was use with each one.

[shipmodel]

Hi Gaetan - 

 

A tip of the hat to you and to Vossiewulf for clearing up my questions as to why some of the knives on "Forged in Fire" will not cut.

 

Your dedication to sharpness reminded me of Terry Pratchett's character Death, who hones his scythe on leather, then wool, cotton, silk, and even the wind.  He finally gets the edge that he wants with sunlight itself.  If you are going to sever the soul from the body you should have the sharpest blade possible.  I guess every job has its need for its own kind of edged tool. 

 

Dan 

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Thank you Dan,

 

Why  should I want to use a sharp blade? If I have to answer fast, I see 2 interrelated factors to get to a common goal:

 

first, a sharper blade is easier to control, this means  yo can do precise cuts

 

second: the sharper the blade, the easier to cut, so less strength is needed to do the job.  Not have to concentrate so much on the strength to use,

but more on producing  a precise cut.

 

[vossiewulf]

11 hours ago, shipmodel said:

A tip of the hat to you and to Vossiewulf for clearing up my questions as to why some of the knives on "Forged in Fire" will not cut.

Many of the fancy super-cool knives you see made are just 440 stainless steel which is only partially hardenable, at best you get a very marginal edge with them. If you want a fancy-looking blade that is also good cutting edge steel, look at Japanese knives.

 

Also I'll second what Gaetan said, you can't do true precision work without an extremely sharp edge. Once you try one a lightbulb goes off and you say wow, this is MUCH easier. And from that point on you're obsessed with making your knife as sharp as possible