US Brig Syren by fnkershner - Model Shipways - 1:64

[knightyo]

That's a NICE recovery on the stern!  It's extremely satisfying to be able to hide things under eventual paint and copper plating.

 

Alan

[fnkershner]

I am so bummed. I ordered the AL Scrapers from Micromark. I even ordered both sets A & B. They even work well on Basswood. but none of the profiles is small enough for the Syren! Anyone find a different solution? I am getting to the point were there is no option but to install the molding without the contour.

 

Alan - I am looking at your Avatar. I see the Caronnades for the Syren. May I ask where you got them? I am reluctant to spend $80 on something that I have to do a lot of modifications.

[knightyo]

9 minutes ago, fnkershner said:

Alan - I am looking at your Avatar. I see the Caronnades for the Syren. May I ask where you got them? I am reluctant to spend $80 on something that I have to do a lot of modifications.

 

I actually cast these myself, which turned out to be an extremely good learning experience.  This is when I learned that when casting an item, cast ALL of the item.  The rounded parts on the bottom of each carronade?  I didn't cast them with the main barrel, and had to saw/carve/file/shape every single one by hand later.  I'd offer to send you a set of these, but then you'd need to need to do the same thing I did, and would probably curse me for it. The offer is open however, if you like self-torture.

 

Alan

[Peter Bloemendaal]

Hi Floyd,

This may be a silly idea, but based on how the AL scrapers work, can you maybe cut/file your own profile based on the timber size.

Cheers, Peter

[fnkershner]

Alan - Thanks for the offer. But the Jokita Carronades also have the same issue. Which is why I am reluctant to spend $80 and order a set and then have to add the same piece. I too have considered casting them myself. Did you cast in metal or some other material?

 

Does anyone have a 3D design for these Barrels. I am going to try a 3D printer. I am also considering Casting in resin.

 

Peter - I have tried to use a one sided Razor blade and a cut off wheel in my Dremel. I could not get the profile small enough. I guess I will go back to trying again. I had such high hopes for the AL scrapers. If anyone has had success with this process please share.

[knightyo]

Casting them yourself is a really great feeling if you want to go that way.  I turned my "master" in a mini-lathe, but I know people who have just placed dowels in DIY drill setups and have achieved great results.  Once the master is done, it would be easy to shape the bottom piece, and glue to the master before casting.   My favorite way to cast is with 2-part RTV rubber and pewter.  It's really easy, actually.

 

Alan

[scasey88]

Wow, that is a bummer about the shapers Floyd, I really only tested on a scrap piece and did not try an actual trim piece for the Syren, some of the profiles looked really tiny so I did not give it much thought.

[fnkershner]

Shawn - I had the same feeling, but I could not find a profile that is small enough for 1/16" wide. They are a great tool. And I look forward to using them but I guess not on this model.

[fnkershner]

Well if you find your log on the bottom of the 3rd page. It is clear you have fallen behind on your posting. So here is my latest update.

 

First off a quick bit if info. This may be obvious to everyone else but just in case. I will share. I was tracing the shape of the Cap rail onto a sheet of basswood. It is very easy to get the outside dimensions but how do you get the inside? Well you could spend a lot of frustrating time with a set of French Curves like I did. Or you could use the handy tool pictured below. Set the width to be the desire 1/4" and trace it out. 

 

I should also mention I am pretty happy with my Molding. Both on the stern and the Port side. Starboard is in the works.

 

Enjoy!

 

Next Saturday is my deadline! the last Cap rail will go on and there is some painting to do. I guess there will be no deck before Veterans day. I should note that I painted the Hull below the waterline. This is just a substitute until I get the cooper plates on.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2017 by fnkershner

[Nirvana]

Looking very good.

[Jim Rogers]

I had no problems with the shapers.

 

[fnkershner]

Jim - Can you tell me which one you used? I could not find a profile that was narrow enough.

[scasey88]

Looking Good Floyd, I started on my planking above the wales this weekend, its going pretty slow, but going well so far, I guess I am going to have to get my update posted too.

[fnkershner]

Ok Guys, I am work again so I can't post any pictures. But I have a couple of questions. First the Admiral has requested a deck of Holly. I have some beautify lumber so I was going to do this. To experiment I created a sample section of deck. I also used the drill and paste method for the trenails. But when you wipe away the excess paste the lumber nearby takes up some of the color as a smudge. I tried Scraping with a one sided razor blade but so far no luck. Suggestions?

 

2nd question to the Syren club - I have completed the building of my copper plate jib but I am having difficulty drilling the holes in the stamp. So far I have broken 2 bits and another bit drill thru to the side of the stamp. How are you accurately drilling the holes in the stamp to hold the pins?

[Heronguy]

I've just spent the last hour or 2 working on Coppering Jig mkII. (actually my 4th or 5th attempt at a satisfactory one).  Luckily I acquired a CNC mill this summer so I'm getting it to drill the pattern for me.  I tried freehand drilling as well as freehand positioning in a dremel drill press. The drill press helps with the holes being vertical and avoiding breaking these tiny bits with lateral pressure.  Freehand positioning was part of my problem but the major issue I had was that the nails would drive in a smidge while using the jig to press the copper foil.  The satisfactory solution (used for coppering the Prince de Neufchatel) was to create a 3/16" plate into which I drilled the nail pattern and then inserted the nails.  The plate was then glued to a longer piece (head of nail in the middle of the sandwich) with the same profile (1/4"x11/16").  Then I ground down the nails projecting from the plat so they were even and not pointy. 

Only other thing I'd mention about use of the jig was that the bottom of the jig in my case was a piece of pdf board - after a bunch of plated were embossed the impressions became blurred because the pdf deformed under the nail but the little bit of plat in the jig spread the deformed area. The top impression is what I want.  The 2nd from top is what I was getting. (hence another attempt at the jig before I copper the Syren!)

 

 

Hope this is coherent and/or useful

[knightyo]

4 hours ago, fnkershner said:

Ok Guys, I am work again so I can't post any pictures. But I have a couple of questions. First the Admiral has requested a deck of Holly. I have some beautify lumber so I was going to do this. To experiment I created a sample section of deck. I also used the drill and paste method for the trenails. But when you wipe away the excess paste the lumber nearby takes up some of the color as a smudge. I tried Scraping with a one sided razor blade but so far no luck. Suggestions?

 

 

I'd highly recommend purchasing a small drawplate and creating your own trennails rather than using paste.  It takes a lot longer, but man it's satisfying to install them. 

 

Alan

[fnkershner]

Ok time for an update. First let me comment on the help above. Alan I have a draw plate. All I can say is do you want to add another year to the length of this build! Now that I have used the putty method. I will never go back.

 

Doug I am using MDF as well. I might want to rethink this. I also discovered my problem. in the picture below you will see the tool I use to hold tiny bits in my Drill press. I found the shaft was just a tad bent. Unfortunately that was after breaking 3 drill bits.

 

[fnkershner]

Also I mentioned that I was rushing to get the model in a presentable state. I got far enough but did not get the deck on. I took it anyway to the Birthday celebration at the US Navy Station in Everett, WA. Unfortunately almost no one understood what I was showing. They asked if it had oars and many other similar questions. I guess I need to wait until I have masts. It was a good event. We had 30 people there. One of our members told about how he had to bail out about 40 years ago. He is till the only person to bail out of a US Navy plane and end up floating in Crater Lake.

 

 

[Nirvana]

Floyd, great update regarding the Syren.....

I like the story from the last weekend. Sorry that nobody understood that Syren is powered by the wind.

[fnkershner]

Now back to the model. As mentioned above I was struggling with 2 problems. The first was how to drill the hold in the copper plate stamp. I hope the new replacement tool I ordered from MicroMark solves this issue.

 

The 2nd was using Holly for Deck planking. You will see a picture below that shows a sample of the Deck. I think the indoor lights add a lot of yellow to the photos. Anyway I mentioned that scraping did not remove all of the putty from the Treenailing. Well I got the bright Idea to try a bit of Danish oil. This worked perfectly. So I am working on the deck now. In the picture below you will see the before and after with the Danish Oil. The picture is poor but you can see the smudging around the 2nd row of treenailing. the top show after 1 coat of Danish Oil. I think it also darkens the planks just a little bit. I really like the result.

 

First I cut out from a copy of the plans the deck layout. And I cutout the gratings from these Plans. I used this to mark the model for the gratings. Then I marked the bulkheads on the plan template. Next I painted the area on the model under the gratings Black. And finally I am now test laying out my deck planks on the plan template before I install them on the model.

[capnharv2]

Flo

After you drill (or punch or whatever you do) the holes for putty, consider putting some type of sealant (like a flat, clear lacquer) in the holes before putting the putty in. That should help keep the stain in the putty from migrating into the end grain of the holly. One nice thing about putting a clear finish in the holes is that you should be able to scrape the deck to get any excess off.

 

Just a thought.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Thanks,

 

Harvey

[Heronguy]

2 hours ago, fnkershner said:

Doug I am using MDF as well. I might want to rethink this. I also discovered my problem. in the picture below you will see the tool I use to hold tiny bits in my Drill press. I found the shaft was just a tad bent. Unfortunately that was after breaking 3 drill bits.

 

Floyd, Sorry about my spell checker - likes pdf much more that MDF - bah! computer programmers are so uninformed!  Glad you could decipher that.  

 

I've been assembling the latest version of my copper plate jig.   I milled a channel in a base plate and cut a small strip off my self-healing mat.

 

 I've added sides to guide the nail head jig.  The samples I'm getting of the nail head impression are more to my liking.  I'm pretty sure the mat will prevent the blurring I encountered on the previous jig.  I'll be posting more on my Syren log in the next couple of days.

 

[fnkershner]

I am using my Holiday weekend to complete my deck. There has been some discussion on this site about whether or not to have a sub deck. Since I did not create one on my Bluenose I decided not to have one on the Syren. Well I have run into a problem. This is just a heads up for those of you trying to decide. some of the planks between the hatches are not long enough to reach from bulkhead to bulkhead. So they have nothing to rest on. So I had to take some scrap and fill in along the centerline. Pictures tomorrow.

[fnkershner]

ok here are the pictures I promised. They are all the same. I am just playing with lighting to find the best solution so they don't look washed out. Planking the deck continues. Starboard is done, working on Port. Any suggestions how you clean up the smudges and excess CA?

 

 

[Peter Bloemendaal]

Hi Floyd,

Why don't you use wood glue to avoid the smudges.

Peter 

[Rustyj]

Floyd, Once the deck if fully planked I sand or scrape it and that will clean up the CA smudges. 

[fnkershner]

Rusty - I was worried that Sanding would just spread the issue. most of the problem is from CA + Graphite. Can you tell me more about Scraping? I tried using a single sided Razor blade. It didn't seem to help much. Maybe I just need to work at it more.

 

PS Note to self - DO NOT Grab a single sided razor blade without reading glasses on. I just go the bandages off this weekend. I sliced my finger very nicely.

 

I hope to finish the deck this coming weekend.

Edited December 12, 2017 by fnkershner

[Jim Rogers]

The no place to attach decking  issue you ran into I used to run into every build. Now I install balsa wood  in between all bulkheads all the way to the outside. This gives me a more solid model, and more surface area to glue deck and hull planking.  Actually makes it easier to fair the hull as you get a good eyeball view. You should be able to sand the CA. Didn’t you buy a set of the AL scrapers? You should be able to make your own scraper from a thin piece of metal. You don’t really need and edge on it just remember  to always PULL it towards you. You can do the same with a single edged razor but angle the blade away from you otherwise you are going to gouge your deck. You’ll get it fixed. I learn something new every build. 

[Rustyj]

Jim explained it very well. I've used a razor blade with my glasses on and I also have a furniture scrapper for larger surfaces. 

[popeye the sailor]

switching to white glue might be your best defense.  I scrape very seldom,  since white glue is made using water.....it does tend to cause the thin strips to curl.  but, usually sanding with a coarser sand paper,  then following it up with a finer sand paper,  will clean it up nicely.  for those who use thicker planking,  this is not an issue,  a damp cloth is all that's needed.   I only use CA for tedious assemblies.