Revenge 1577 by xodar461 - FINISHED - Amati - Scale 1:64

[xodar461]

Marc, 

 

Here is a photo of the bowsprit and the stem.   The angle is close to 20 degrees though it was hard to measure with all of the rigging in the way.  The distance between the stem and bowsprit (red line) is about 58 mm.  Not sure why you have a lot of play in the bowsprit as mine was a pretty tight fit.

 

 

Hope this helps

 

Jeff

[Mike Dowling]

I think he means that the bowsprit is at the side of the foremast, not central on the hull. When I made mine I assumed the bowsprit came across from its seating in line with the figurehead.

[xodar461]

Mike:  

 

I think I understand what he was asking now.  Based on the bulkhead slots for the bowsprit, it should come straight out from its slot in the bulkheads, basically parallel to the center line of the ship (although offset from center on the starboard side).  It should not angle from right to left.  When I placed the bowsprit, it was a pretty snug fit with no "play" at all.

 

Jeff

[Mike Dowling]

You are quite right Jeff, I have just looked at mine again and it does run parallel with the centre line of the ship not angled right or left. 

[MarcNS]

Thanks Jeff et al for your help on this,  I am not sure why my bow sprit doesn’t seat tightly but I’ll use the measurements that Jeff provided.

It’s a wonderful kit, though right now I am waiting on replacement material from Amati (foremast crows nest); strictly my bad, but should never have tried to correct my misalignment of the deadeye holes.  Live and learn.

[Dobbrick]

Guten Morgen.  Habe eine Frage zur Revenge Amati.Wo  platziere ich die mitgelieferten Fässer und Eimer ?

[allanyed]

8 hours ago, Dobbrick said:

Guten Morgen.  Habe eine Frage zur Revenge Amati.Wo  platziere ich die mitgelieferten Fässer und Eimer ?

Good day to you and welcome to MSW Dobbrick!

Please post in English.   Google or some other translator is pretty close except for some nautical terms.  

Good morning Have a question about the Revenge Amati. Where do I place the barrels and buckets that come with it

Allan

[Bill Morrison]

On 1/14/2018 at 11:50 PM, Old Collingwood said:

For more ideas you should check this out  - its the sister ship to the Revenge   -  Golden Hind, and exact replica is in the UK at a seaside place called Brixham  Devon, heres a pic.

 

OC.

There is another replica of the Golden Hind in downtown London.

Bill Morrison

 

[Bill Morrison]

On 1/15/2018 at 3:44 AM, Baker said:

Well done Jeff

 

But my opinion about replicas of the Golden Hind :  beware of them.

There is very little known about ships from this time.

 

However, we do have Matthew Baker's illustration of a race-built galleon. It is believed to represent the Revenge. There are no illustrations extant of Golden Hind.

Bill Morrison

[Baker]

10 hours ago, Bill Morrison said:

However, we do have Matthew Baker's illustration of a race-built galleon. It is believed to represent the Revenge. There are no illustrations extant of Golden Hind.

Bill Morrison

Indeed, that drawing could be the Revenge

 

My Pelican / Golden Hind started 6 years ago with these 2 drawings from Mathew Baker.

 Ps

My name on this forum no comparison to the real Mathew Baker 😉

Edited June 24, 2022 by Baker

[xodar461]

Greetings

 

It's been a while since my last post but progress continues.  The last post ended with work on the main sail.  The main topsail is now complete excepts for the braces and work is in progress on the mizzen and bonaventure sails.

 

These yards and sails are a bit "fiddly" to work with.  The parrel is a bit different than for the square sails.  The trucks have 2 holes for the 2 rows of parrels however one end has a deadeye seized as such:

The deadeye is a standard 3 hole one with the middle hole plugged with a treenail and then stained.  the parrel goes around the mast and the 2 loose ends go around the yard's halyard, through the deadeye and end after a short length around a thimble.  Here's a photo:

Next photo shows all lateen sails in place.  The upper mizzen halyard is still under construction in this photo (which is why the sail is a bit "off").  Also, the small triangular wooden supports for the lift crows feet on the mizzen halyard happen to be in the wrong place (the bonaventure sail has the correct location - blue circles).  It took a bit of work but they have been corrected.

 

With the sails in place all that's left is the running ringing - easy, right?  Well, the lateens yard's lift's were quite the headache as all them are connected.  here's what is on the plan:

 

And this is the model.  Some of the ropes were left long at the seizing for adjustment if needed  (one or 2 still need to be snugged up a bit).

 

and a closer photo...

You'll notice that the mizzen top lateen sail has been furled.  The only other line for this sail was the sheet.  The mizzen lateen also has the bowline, sheet, martnets and tacks in place.  I am working on those line for the bonaventure sail at the moment.  And finally, a ship needs a crew so a few have been added ( one is visible on the main top in the photo above).

 

Pretty soon  work will start on the plexiglass cutout that represents the sea as well as a base for the model.

 

Jeff

[kirill4]

Good day Jeff,
Your model is going to be a very nice galleon! 
   I have some remarks from my side ,but I'm afraid they are too late , about the way how  You demonstrated topsails furling on your galleon ... 
I don't think I will tell something new, just some remarks regarding sails handling in this period...
Topsails yards, when sails were going to be furled, need to be lowered at most possible lower position - to the mast-head...

when they shown  hoisted up, but sails shown in process of furling, it looks a bit unnatural...

and topsails themselves , in 16th - beginning of the 17th centuries  , they were usually furled in a little bit different way,as I could understand ..
  Partially they were rolled and secured  to the respective yard but main body of the sail used to be furled vertically and secured under the topsail yard vertically as well ...
Later on, during next half of the 17th and on, when topsails became less trapezoidal shape, top and top-gallants sails  furled and secured completely under the respective yards...

all these about sails furling etc. clearly and in details explained in J.Harland book "Seamanship in the age of sails"...

 All the best!

Kirill

[kirill4]

There is the picture 2A in Harland's book, as example old fashion furling topsails and one else... You didn't fit gaskets at all... not on the main yard nor on the top or mizzen... it will be difficult to manage sails furling without such important elements... 

 

[xodar461]

Thanks for you comments and observations kirill.  The look I am aiming for is for the sails partially drawn up with the ship at anchor, not fully furled.  Most of the paintings you have shown on this log show either sails fully furled sails or billowing.  I am looking for something in-between as might be seen with a ship at anchor but able to make way quickly if need be.  As such,  I am not exactly sure of the location of the top yard but I would assume that when the gaskets are undone, the yard would be elevated so as not to foul any of the lines beneath.  Of course I could be wrong but I'll likely leave things as they are.  Photo below is close to what I am trying to achieve.

Regarding the gaskets, I guess I should have read a bit further in the chapter on sails in Anderson's The Rigging of Ships in the Days of the Spritsail Topmast.   I will give some thought of how to add them to the yards (and decide whether I want them to hang loose[drawing "B" in above photo] or coiled, ["D"]).  

Jeff

Edited July 26, 2022 by xodar461

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

On 6/23/2022 at 2:59 PM, Bill Morrison said:

However, we do have Matthew Baker's illustration of a race-built galleon. It is believed to represent the Revenge. There are no illustrations extant of Golden Hind.

Bill Morrison

  Don't overlook the silver miniature of the GH commissioned by Queen Elizabeth and presented to Drake once atop the mounted coconut (Drake gave to Elizabeth after his circumnavigation) she had engraved and made into a silver-mounted cup.  The Queen KNEW what the GH looked like, knighted Drake on the deck of the GH and had the ship moored on the Thames as the first 'museum ship' ... So the silver miniature is both contemporary to the GH and must have (with a jeweler's simplifications) had the key features of the vessel. 

 

  Per the photo below, one can just see openings on the weather deck (no guns at this scale, but they'd have gone there), stern pole for managing the mizzen lateen (mizzen mast towards the stern), sail configuration (sans yards on fore mast and bowsprit - can't say why) and the absence of a 'captain's walk' around the stern.

  From another angle.  Note the engraving of the GH (consistent with he silver miniature) being towed by native canoes at a Pacific isle.

 

  A contemporary depiction of Drake's 'Caribbean Fleet' 

 

  And there are the depositions of DiSilva (one of them to the Inquisition - were his life and soul depended on his truthfulness), where the expert Portuguese navigator (a 'guest' of Drake from the Caribbean, around the Horn and to the West coast of Mexico) who states that the GH was 220 (Old Portuguese) tons.  This works out to 175 contemporary tons.  The length on deck of the GH replica moored on the Thames   would be about right, but the builder's target of 150 tons kept the beam too narrow.  Instability forced the addition of 'side bulges' (thereafter the ship was stable and sailed the oceans of the world) that brought the beam (if originally built that wide) to a size appropriate for about 175 tons (220 Old Portuguese tons).  The beam on the weather deck (had the build lines conformed to the wider beam at the waterline ) would then have been wide enough for guns on the weather deck with allowance for recoil (25 feet instead of the 19 as built.  BTW, the gun deck below the weather deck on the replica ship is 25 feet).

 

  DiSilva also noted that the broadside gunnery was 7 per side (5 main cannon per side plus 2 lesser guns per side, most likely on the quarterdeck as seen in contemporary illustrations) plus 2 stern guns and two at the bow.  2 guns pointing directly astern (one each side of the sternpost) are seen in almost all contemporary illustrations.  It is not known whether the two bow guns were on the forecastle deck (for greater range) or mounted towards the bow on the gun deck at something like a 45 degree angle ... take your pick.

 

 

 

 

[Bill Morrison]

From what I see, I cannot see a realistic interpretation of the Golden Hind's appearance.  It looks like a very basic and disproportioned depiction that is more decorative than a realistic model.  Also, the Golden Hind currently on the Thames is a replica not the real ship.  All we can do is make intelligent guesses about her actual appearance.

 

Bill

[kirill4]

Good day,

But this is Revenge built,isn't it?

... not GH... hm...not sure why we are talking about GH here?

Is there special GH building report?

[kirill4]

Gh and Revenge in a " little bit " different vessels , in tonnage, sizes, righing ,years of build , etc... could be no sence to mix them in one building... ?

[kirill4]

Good day Jeff,

I understood your idea about furling topsails, how You wanted to show them...

This is russian navy" Shtandart" replica , which is on your example,

but this is  18th century vessel ,if I not mistaken...doubt if it could be goodcas example for thr Revenge model...

more close/ suitable examples for your model, could be Kalmar Nykel replica of 1625...or Duyfken or Mayflower II replicas ....

there are many photos of them in the net, and they are in good resolution ,and many details of the rigging could be seen and examined...

also they shown in different stages of sails managing... full set, half furled, etc...

All the best!

Kirill

Ps

Did You consider to show main sails half furled and other sails full setted...something as demonstrated on this model/ by the way - very good example of many details for Revenge model... I could say, for both models it was used the same base for reconstruction... and they are very similar in appearance :)))

https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co40957/elizabethan-galleon-elizabeth-jonas-model-representation

Edited July 26, 2022 by kirill4

[xodar461]

Greetings:

 

Its been awhile since my last update.  Work on the ship is pretty much complete with all the sails now up.  I decided to leave the bonaventure sail set in order to show one sail not furled or drawn up.  Gaskets were added on the square sails. Here are 2 photos:

 

Still on the to do list:  anchors, flags and the base with simulated water.  This next pic shows the kit anchors and stock.  The anchor stock was pretty bad so it got tossed.  New stocks were made using some leftover boxwood.

Here is the complete stock, compared to the kit stock.  The anchors were also lightly brushed with some paint to give it slightly rusted look.

Anchor buoys were constructed next.  Rather than carve an egg shape, I used small slices of various diameter dowels and glued them together.  They were then covered in wood filler and sanded to shape.  Next,, the buoys were wrapped in black rope and harnesses attached.  Here are 2 photos. 

One anchor will be stowed along the channel with the buoy tied up to the shrouds.  The other will be on the seafloor with the buoy "floating" above on the simulated sea.  The photo below shows the base of the ships case.  The vertical dowels are plexiglass which will hold the plexiglass sea (eventually screwed in at the corners).  

And this photo shows my simulated sea floor - large and small stones, sand and lichen.  If you look closely, one anchor can be seen in the foreground.  I also has 2 leftover cannons from this kit.  Although they were assembled there was no place to put them so they became detritus on the seafloor (after smashing them with a hammer).  see if you can spot them.

One of the last items are the flags.  Material supplied by the kit is really too thick and inflexible.  I've imported the flags into Lightroom and I am planning to print them on silkspan or tissue paper.  Still a work in progress getting the colors correct and printing them.

I'll post some pics of the stowed anchor and buoy and the ship in the sea soon.  

 

Jeff

[OllieS]

Pleased you're back.

Such a good build! and super useful to me as I try to improve my OcCre Revenge.

[xodar461]

Greetings!

 

As we fast approach the end of this story, here are some additional photos.  I'll start with the seabed.  Here are some close up pics of the sunken cannon and anchor.

below is a photo of the ship in its plexiglass sea.  Although it is textured plexiglass, It looked a bit flat to me. 

After looking at some railroad hobby websites, i decided to use something called mod podge to create some slight ripples (as this scene is a ship at anchor, very calm seas.  I also added some floating seaweed and a few leftover barrels floating around.  first pic is what the mod podge look like going on

Maybe not perfect but I am happy with the result.  I think the floating weeds and barrels adds a bit more character.   Next one shows the anchor cable and anchor buoy.

I wanted to show one anchor and buoy stowed but not the cathead fall block with rigging.

and one last view from the bow and starboard...

 

Next post I will describe how I made the flags and crew.

 

Jeff

[Baker]

congratulations, a very beautiful model and diorama.

[Gus M]

congrats, really beuty

[ccoyle]

Love it!

[Katsumoto]

A great model, love the woodcolor of the hull and the representation of the paint. Well build and what an example of how this ship should be like! Congratulations! 

[kirill4]

Good day,

My congratulations - good model You made !

All the best!

 

[Cirdan]

Stunning model 👍. Will you post some gallery pictures? 🙏

[Ferrus Manus]

On 6/23/2022 at 9:48 PM, Baker said:

My name on this forum no comparison to the real Mathew Baker 😉

Take it in stride, Baker. You might as well be the real Matthew Baker as far as i am concerned. I noticed that early on in our discussions. 

[DARIVS ARCHITECTVS]

That display is fantastic.  Inspirational!