How guns were tied to the deck when they were not in use?

[Sandor Laza]

Dear All,

 

I am building the model of the ship "Cannoniera olandese n.2". I have seen plenty of photos of the guns in battle position, but I want to show the guns when they are in "transport" position.

 

Could you please let me know where can I find some materials on how the guns were tied to the deck when they were not in use. I have some drawings, but they are not clear at all.

 

Thank you

Edited May 29, 2018 by Sandor Laza

[Mirabell61]

Hi Sandor,

 

here a pic from my book " Schiffsmodelle" of Wolfram zu Mondfeld, regarding to non battle tyings of guns......

the barrel is upward and tied contact, face to the bulwark. Breech ropes and pulley are set tight, and additional chocks hinder the wheels from moving...

Perhaps there are different methodes as well, but this is one I found...

 

Nils

 

[dvm27]

I have see illustrations with the cannon turned sideways and lashed fore and aft to the bulwark. This would seem to provide more stability in a rolling sea but I can't provide a reference offhand.

[jud]

Nils; The elusive chocks have suddenly appeared, thanks. Have been looking for some reference to such devices for a long time, common sense and experience at sea indicated, at least to me that such things were needed but scorned when mentioned. As you noted, there were more than one way to secure guns at sea. The one common feature of everyone would be the solid contact and securing to a ship structure to prevent the beginning of the tiniest movement from starting by overdoing the lashings. Having chased a fork lift back and forth across the tank deck of an LST and 365 pound 8" projectiles around the shell deck of gun turrets I have had some experience in what is required to secure for sea.

jud For fun, LST at sea; https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10212023382000737&set=gm.2279674735593413&type=3&ifg=1

[cog]

You need another way, since the sort of ship is not one conforming to the regular 5th, 4th, or 3rd rates which are mianly build here ... I've lookid into it, but haven't found an answer yet

[mgdawson]

Hi Sandor,

 

I've seen several drawings similar to the one Nils posted although I don't think I've ever seen one of the tackles taking a turn around an axle. I've also seen the chocks between the axles rather than outside, more seaman like IMHO, less chance of being kicked/knocked out.

 

Greg mentions guns turned side on to the bulwarks, I've seen several models and drawings with this arrangement mainly for signal guns or on expedition ships with reduced armament to make more room on deck, I would not expect to see this on any active warship. Unfortunately I don't remember how they were lashed.

 

Little awkward getting to my reference library at the moment but if I get a chance I'll have a hunt for you.

 

Mark D

 

[Matrim]

I will have a look to I vaguely recollect that 'Arming and fitting' had a drawing of this as well..

[cog]

For those whom want to help, please, take a look at the ship Sandor Laza refers to in his initial post. It is a.o. impossible to tie the muzzle to the bulwarks like in Nils' example. The only thing I can think of is side ways to the bulwarks, or tied down to the deck ...

[Sandor Laza]

Dear All,

 

I attached a photo of one of the models of the ship in question, for your reference. As I understood, the guns on it are in "battle" position. I would much prefer to show them in "peacetime".

 

Just want to say that I appreciate your help and enthusiasm!

[mtaylor]

It's possible that they were secured in the "run out" position.   Many of the French frigates (particularly the 8-pdr and 12-pdr) did not have port covers as we know them but buckler types.  The guns were secured in the run-out position to give more room on the gundeck.

[Mark P]

Greetings Sandor;

 

One other point with cannon which were stowed is that the bore was closed by a tompion being placed in the muzzle. This was a solid timber shape like a filled in bucket,  often with the visible end carved and painted. 

 

They were standard issue as part of the Gunner's stores.  In the Royal Navy,  'take out your tompions' was the second command given when preparing the guns for use/drill.

 

I am sure it would be the same in other navies.

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

[davyboy]

HI Sandor,

Having enlarged the pic I notice that the two broadside cannon are not on gun carriages but on what appears to be pivoting slide carriages. Not much scope to stow these for transport as they are fixed to the deck pivot at the front. The stern chase guns could be stowed and lashed against the stern bulwarks I guess. You don't show a pic of the fwd cannon which I expect is a slide mounted or swiveling large bore cannon as this is a gunboat. No idea what would be done there i'm afraid.

 

Dave 

[jud]

Must keep in mind, a Naval Gunship of any type or nationality, ancient or modern, only exists to get the guns or weapons to the battle and support them. The rule is, in the way of working the guns, it must move, guns come first, so you put up with losing the space they and their equipment occupy.

jud  

[Tigerdvr]

The guns on the slides are carronades. Shorter range with usually larger bore than "long" guns, referred to as "smashers" for their destructive capabilities.  

[Captain Poison]

The first illustration shows the cannon in battery or battle, second in peacetime or travel and the third trips in severe storms.

If you decide on the second option, you should keep in mind that you will lose space on the deck, making it more difficult to work with details.

Edited July 16, 2018 by Captain Poison

[cog]

9 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

Well depends upon the length of the voyage and the size of vessel and the guns of course.

 The guns were actually not as fixed as one might think and vessels were equipped to move them.

An important consideration though was the sensible distribution of weight along the vessel

 

 

Read Cooks journals - his guns were stored in the hold until into an area where they were likely to be needed.

Out of the way on deck , low down for stability and no danger of them running amuck.

 

 

You should also take into account the type of ship, for a merchant ship might have them below, a warrior wouldn't, another aspect to conside are the circumstances a ship sails under (is that English?), entering pirated territory, in war with another "sailing power", etc