Medway Longboat - Masts, Rigging and sails for your model - Questions and discussions

[Chuck]

Masts, Rigging and sails for your model - Questions and discussions

 

[Chuck]

Here is a downloadable PDF full size of the rigging plan.  This is without sails for those who wish to rig it this way.  I have omitted the sizes of ropes and blocks as this will all be explained in the instructions.  Its a simple rig and this way those notations wont crowd the paths of the rigging on the plan sheet.

 

I am releasing as a download also because I know there may be folks who would prefer not to pay for a masting and rigging package especially after so few items are needed that you might already have.  I will do the same with the sail plan.  This will hopefully help those in other countries where the shipping would be ridiculous to send a plan sheet and mast material in a mailing tube.  But I will offer it of course for those who still want to buy all the parts in cedar and use my rigging blocks and rope which will be part of the rigging kit.  let me know if you have any questions about the rigging plan.  The mast blank is 20" long and will be expensive to ship internationally even though its very light.  

 

26ftlaunchsheetonehalfsheet3.pdf

 

 

 

[Jim Rogers]

Chuck any idea when the mast kit will be available?

[Chuck]

Im waiting on a few orders to arrive.....but hopefully sometime next week.   

[Chuck]

Working on it!!!   Unfortunately other suppliers dont seem to respond and ship orders as promptly as I do.  For the rigging package I am still waiting for brass strips and the mailing tubes to package them up.   

 

I am also waiting on wood to make new kits.   Just waiting and waiting!!!..Urgh😢

[Bob Cleek]

Beautiful rigging job on the longboat in the gallery, Chuck! In its scale, the fine line and blocks certainly make a huge difference.

 

One question, however. I'm sure that you meticulously recreated the contemporary model upon which your longboat is based, but why would such a vessel have a mainsheet horse that is below the tiller? This requires the tiller to be unshipped from the rudder stock on every tack, at the time it is needed most, in order to permit the mainsheet tackle to slide over to the leeward wide.  Isn't a horse on the transom and crossing above the tiller, or a mainsheet rigged to blocks on the quarters instead of a horse, which don't cause the sheet tackle to foul on the tiller, be the proper arrangements?

[Chuck]

This has been discussed a few dozen times already....

 

Its the way they did it back then.  Around 1750 they started switching to above the tiller.   Contemporary models. rigging plans and paintings show it below the tiller as I did it.  There are many many many primary sources that conclude beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was the case.

 

Chuck

[Roger Pellett]

Chuck,

 

For those of us with enquiring minds how about listing your sources, or if you already have can you point us to the post where you did.  I know of only two examples where the horse is beneath the tiller- The “Medway” boat and the boat in the Kriegstein collection, and the Kriegsteins had their boat rigged after it came into their possession.  

 

The other well known example, the boat in May’s book shows the sheet horse passing over the tiller.  Other aspects of this boat’s construction would indicate that it is an early design.

 

Roger

 

[Chuck]

It is my personal opinion that it is correct as I show it.

 

 

But everyone can make their own own decision.   Its a simple thing to adjust although it would be wrong for the period in my experience.  

 

In the Kriegstein example....yes the rigging is new....but the horse is not.  You only need to contact the owners of that beautiful model to find that out.  I dont know why everyone is fixating on this.....just do it the way you would prefer it to be.   I have said dozens of times that both methods are acceptable.  Yet the same people keep obsessing and challenging.

 

Let us not forget that I am making a model of a model here......and this is the way it is presented on the contemporary model.   You folks can alter it very easily.  Just please stop beating a dead horse about it....literally.   If you want me to say that all of you "over the tiller" guys are correct and it was never done the way it was show....I will do so if only it will put this issue to rest.

[Jim Rogers]

IMO, as I have demonstrated, it is your model build it, paint it, display it the way you want. Having been in the Navy for twenty five years and seeing some really dumb things I have no doubt that this is the way it was originally done. Then some able body seaman tired of explaining to the LT how stupid this set up was just moved the horse above the tiller. Before that I am sure some young lad put two blocks on the horse one on either side or made the tiller handle a quick remove and reinstall. Sailors are an inventive lot.

[Bob Cleek]

22 hours ago, Chuck said:

This has been discussed a few dozen times already....

Sorry to have rubbed salt into the wound. I missed the first "few dozen times." As I mentioned, I expected that your version was faithful to the original contemporary model. I can accept that the "why" of it is now lost in the mists of time. As you said, "It's a model of a model."

[Bob Cleek]

On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 3:31 PM, Chuck said:

This has been discussed a few dozen times already....

 

Its the way they did it back then.  Around 1750 they started switching to above the tiller.   Contemporary models. rigging plans and paintings show it below the tiller as I did it.  There are many many many primary sources that conclude beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was the case.

It's been niggling at me for days now and I think I've found the answer. I think the horse below the tiller makes perfect sense, Chuck.

 

Everything on a vessel is for a purpose and on most vessels, particularly naval vessels, things are pretty well worked out.

 

A longboat is primarily a pulling boat. It's usually used for short trips to shore when anchored out, between vessels in a squadron,  between ships at sea, or for sending armed parties ashore. Speed and maneuverability would usually be of the essence. There is no shortage of manpower on board the mother ship, so there's no problem manning the oars. By far, the most use she'd see would be propelled by oars. That would provide reliable speed and no problems with the wind being ahead of the beam.

 

The sailing rig, as handy as it may have proven to be to Captain Bligh and his mates, had to be a pain to have to rig and was likely rarely used. It would only be of advantage on longer journeys when nobody was in a hurry and then, primarily, when the wind was abaft the beam. If so, there would be even less occasion to tack and thus to see the mainsheet running into the tiller as it came across on the horse.

 

The tiller sets rather high. To install a horse above it would be complicated, as the horse has to be stable and the taller it is, the less ability it has to withstand the athwartships forces of the sheet block at the corners of the horse. The tiller is relatively short, which allows for the loose sheet tackle to perhaps be thrown around the tiller as the boom crosses amidships.

 

As primarily a rowing boat, a "hybrid" approach is also obviously available. Traveling long distances to windward, short tacking under sail can easily be avoided by leaving the sails to luff on the short leg with the oarsmen taking over, and then relieving the oarsmen on the long tack to let the wind do the work. That would permit rather rapid windward progress without having to pass the boom over at all when the helm was a-lee.

 

So, all in all, the horse below the tiller, while shocking to the eye of small boat sailors used to sail as the primary means of propulsion, and hence who do a lot of short tacking under sail, makes perfect sense on this particular boat.

 

So from now on, Chuck, any time somebody asks about the mainsheet horse, tell thelm I said it was right and right for good reasons!   

Edited January 16, 2019 by Bob Cleek

[Jim Rogers]

Question. When the mast and rigging were not used did they just leave the block on the horse and remove the rope. How were the shrouds removed? Was all this rigging stowed on the Longboat when not in use?

[Bob Cleek]

56 minutes ago, Jim Rogers said:

Question. When the mast and rigging were not used did they just leave the block on the horse and remove the rope. How were the shrouds removed? Was all this rigging stowed on the Longboat when not in use?

Somebody probably has a more authoritative answer from a book somewhere, but I'd guess that they would attach the block on the horse with a shackle or a moused hook and remove the block when the mainsheet wasn't attached to the horse. (I'm not sure when shackles came into use, actually.) The shrouds would be attached to the chainplates similarly, with a shackle or moused hook on the bottom of the lower deadeye. This would permit the deadeye lanyards being loosened and the deadeyes and lanyards removed from the chainplates with the mast as a unit. The shrouds and deadeyes and lanyards, as well as halyards and stays, would likely have been lashed to the mast when it was stepped, and then the entire mast and gang of rigging removed with a tackle while the longboat was alongside. I doubt they'd have gone to the trouble to reeve the mainsheet tackle and deadeyes, although they may have stowed some of it below if they were "off soundings" for a long while and not anticipating sailing the longboat for weeks at a time.

 

The spars and rigging would likely have been stowed lashed on the boat skids or spar rack of the ship. The mast is likely too heavy and unwieldy to step from within the longboat and there isn't any "tabernacle" arrangement that I expect would have been present (as in American whaleboats) if it were ever intended to be stepped from the longboat. Then again, some of the evolutions that were performed by the naval crews of that time were pretty amazing. For the size of the vessels, they carried large crews and many hands make light work. The amount of heavy work that was performed, such as stowing furniture and removing cabin bulkheads throughout the ship, when the crew was "beat to quarters" to go into combat was truly prodigious.

[Chuck]

IMPORTANT NOTE for rigging package:   When I rigged the longboat I had more than enough brown rope with about half a package left over when completed.  This rigging package also comes with one package each of .018 and .025 Light brown rope.  When I completed the rigging I had a bit left over of both of these sizes as well but not that much.   BUT....I realize that some of you use a lot more rope than is needed because it can sometimes be hard to judge accurate lengths for some.  

 

So if you are one of these individuals,  dont worry about the dark brown rope.....BUT you should absolutely order an extra package of .018 light brown and .025 Light brown rope when you buy the rigging package.  You will save on postage buying it up front at the same time.  I mention this only because I will not be sending out additional packages of rope for free for anyone that runs out of the rope.  I had plenty left over and one package of each should work just fine.....for most.

 

Having said this.....Rigging packages are now in stock and ready for shipping.

 

Click here

[Rustyj]

Hi Chuck. Order placed! As I have a lot of your rope on hand I'm good.

Otherwise I would have been one of those who use too much rope. 

[Jim Rogers]

Order placed. 

 

Chuck have you decided on the stand kit? I would really like one.

[Chuck]

But your model isnt of the Medway Longboat.  But Yes, eventually I will make those stands.  But right now I want to concentrate on catching up with my other inventory of blocks and rope.  I also have to finish writing the instructions.  Once thats done I will start making stands.  You can flip the laser etched words so they are on the inside and cant be seen though.....

 

Chuck  

[Paulintucson]

Dear Chuck,

 

Thanks for cranking out the kits as fast your suppliers allow.  Do you have an ETA on the longboat rigging kit?  

 

I really like the look of the new rope. Is this going to be an option for the rigging kit?  

 

Thanks in advance. 

[Chuck]

No not yet.  I havent had time to make the new rope yet.   I am still using the cotton/linen stuff.  I am hoping to have more rigging kits in about a week.   I am stuck working on a few things on the house now.  I have to knock off a few on the honey-do list or I will be out on the curb.  If you know what I mean....😂