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In the picture, you'll see that the three planks that make up the wale have a serious lateral bow to them along the length of the ship. The kit instructions specified that the top of the first plank be laid down even with the outboard bulwark step and the subsequent two planks be laid in line with the first. There was to be no tapering or shaping of these planks. After marking off the first temporary batten below these planks, I noticed an hourglass shape to the top band. When taking measurements of each bulkhead in this band, it quickly became clear that the width required for the allotted 5 planks per band would exceed the 5mm of the kit planks for bulkheads 2, 3, and 4. From reading/watching many planking tutorials, I was expecting to have to taper the planks in this part of band. How do others compensate for the bow and not make it ugly? 

 

Any help will be appreciated,

IMG_1821.thumb.jpg.aac7bbb22596b1c533c8034bc9a5439e.jpg

Frank

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Just curious about what kit this is (ship and kit manufacturer) for and if it might be possible to post a photo of the relevant section of the instructions or get a quote. I'm wondering if something might be getting lost in translation.

 

Also, the problem you are describing, as I'm understanding you, is a normal part of the construction of certain areas along the hull and requires the use of planks called stealers. I'm pretty sure your book should describe the technique for those at some point.

 

Good luck!

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The kit is the HMS Beagle (the ship Darwin used for his exploration) made by Mamoli - now manufactured by Dusek. 

 

Are stealers typically used in the bow section? I got the impression they weren't. I'm pouring over the tutorial now to try and get a clearer picture. As for the directions, they really give no guidance in planking other than a general statement to taper the planks below the wale.

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If you are using nothing but straight, parallel strips, you will probably not only have difficulties but will be unhappy with the results. The only surface you can satisfactorily plank with straight strips is the side of a house. Boats aren't that shape, unfortunately. However, it's your model and your decision!

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4 hours ago, frankwil said:

The instructions about lining off the hull by Chuck Passaro require spiling planks - which I'm unable to do at the present time. I would really just rather use the kit planking. 

I think I misread this when I saw it earlier. I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. All planking requires a degree of spiling, which is the process used to shape the planks so that they will fit the complex curvature of the hull. If you attempt to plank an entire hull without spiling, as your post suggests you wish to do (hope I'm wrong about that), you will run into frustration and failure for certain.

 

As another option for hull planking, there is a method described in Frank Mastini's book Ship Modeling Simplified. As the title suggests, Mastini's method is a simplified one compared to actual practice and is designed specifically with beginning modelers in mind. You may be able to get your hands on a copy through your local library.

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Bit puzzled here - the subject of spiling etc isnt quite relevant yet maybe - it is quite normal to have the first two or three strips fitted without any reduction in width - what exactly do you mean by hour glass ?  I cant see anything much wrong with your pic - Also is this the first layer of two  in which makes it matter very much less.

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The straight strips in a kit can be spiled and tapered a bit to get a solid and good looking planking job.

 

I am currently restoring/repairing a model of a Baltimore Clipper from a kit that was built about 30-35 years ago. Everything was glued with some sort of cyanoacrylate, probably a gel type glue. It had the thin veneer strips over the plywood surface on the bulwarks. They were laid on straight with no tapering or spiling. The result was awful with raised edges everywhere. Add to that the CA had failed almost everywhere.

 

I am replacing the veneer strips with similar strips I have collected over the years. I am spiling the edges to create a smooth planed surface along the bulwarks. I am also tapering as needed to make everything fit better and look neater. These strips are your typical kit veneers, about .020" thick. I am using a sanding stick to spile and taper, but emory boards could be used. It is not a quick process, but the results, while not great, are gratifying. 

 

Here are some shots where you can see a little of the original planking (it came off in my hands) and some of the work I am doing to replace it. I am using carpenter's glue rather than CA. 

 

The first and last photos show my work while the second and third are of the original planking. 

 

Russ

bulwark planking starboard side complete.JPG

fore deck port.JPG

fore channel.JPG

Bulwark planking starboard side aft close up.JPG

Edited by russ
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Spiling the planks are needed and am not a first class planker bu I do try to get there,

am using chuck's  method lining off the hull ,this I used on my syren and also for my next,and next

I yust jump into it and if I fail with a bang I yust start again, for me it was or still is the best way to learn.

Its yust wood so it can be replased 😊and do look at chucks  models how he planks them,

my gol is to be better then him.... LOL 😭

 

Svein.erik 

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I guess what I implied, and what the word means to me from reading different things on this site, is using a plank width wider than what you have in the kit. I totally understand the shaping and tapering aspect of it, and would never try planking anything (except a wall) without using these in some form. I was just hesitant to go outside my comfort zone on my first big ship build. But, fear not, for I have taken a trip to the local hobby store and purchased some sheets of 1/16" basswood that are very close in thickness to the 1.5 mm thick planks that are in the Mamoli kit, and am in the process of lining out the hull using Chuck Passaro's tutorial/pictorial. After druxey's encouragement, and I started to actually grasp the whole concept, I decided to take the plunge - because I don't want a crappy looking hull. I'll post some pics of the progress as I go along.

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Spyglass,

 

What I meant by hourglass is that the widths for the planks at bulkheads 2, 3, and 4 were going to be wider than what they would be amidships.  So with the larger widths that typically go to toward the stern, it was somewhat hourglass shaped. This is the first layer of planking so I realize it's not a big deal. I just wanted to make sure I knew what I was doing before I got to the second layer.

Edited by frankwil
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24 minutes ago, frankwil said:

I guess what I implied, and what the word means to me from reading different things on this site, is using a plank width wider than what you have in the kit. I totally understand the shaping and tapering aspect of it, and would never try planking anything (except a wall) without using these in some form. I was just hesitant to go outside my comfort zone on my first big ship build. But, fear not, for I have taken a trip to the local hobby store and purchased some sheets of 1/16" basswood that are very close in thickness to the 1.5 mm thick planks that are in the Mamoli kit, and am in the process of lining out the hull using Chuck Passaro's tutorial/pictorial. After druxey's encouragement, and I started to actually grasp the whole concept, I decided to take the plunge - because I don't want a crappy looking hull. I'll post some pics of the progress as I go along.

 

That is a good decision. You can spile and taper your planks to fit perfectly using wider sheets. I have used basswood sheets this way and had good results. 

 

Russ

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Get the Mastini book. It is designed for the beginner and will help you immensely. If this is the first layer of planking, it looks pretty good. Remember, the great thing about working with wood is that a lot can be corrected by sanding later on. Finally, it's been my experience that ship modeling instructions are notoriously bad. If this is the first layer, I would press on while reading mastini and the other links mentioned here. The thing, I find, about instructional posts is often I can't connect them to real world actions until I try to do something. So, if you are like me, read and plank and realize you can always make it better on the second layer. This hobby is supposed to be fun, and a lot of folks probably have hulls they are not so proud of beneath that beautiful second layer of planking.

 

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 Looking harder at your pic it seems to me that you just have not butted the strips as hard forrard as furthe aft.  Not aproblem

 

A mixture of advice above - all good but possible more than is needed for an early build. Though slight variations on the use of the word spiling.

 

So for me -

Talking about double planked builds

First layer of double plank - main requirement is to get a fair smooth continuous surface.

Both layers

The top few plank strips can usually be made to lie fine without any shaping though I do chamfer the edges for a close fit.

Thereafter standard strip will cover the hull  by being tapered in width - probably all strips below the first few at the stem and a few at the upper stern.

The stern will need stealers because the strip will lie with gaps there.

The garboard strip normally  will have have some taper along most of its length.

Banding at its simplest is just a way of making sure the plank tapering is consistent and controls the tendency for  the run to rise or fall

 

That will suffice to produce a nice build.

 

This is an old build of mine - all done with standard strip and no proper spiling - just tapering - no master piece but ok .

You can see the first three strips of the first layer are untapered

firstruns.jpg.66b56af2e988662d385327e61bd3be84.jpg

As you get better you can get into use of various plank joints and spiling , wider planks and so forth

Edited by SpyGlass
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Frank,

 

Look at Spyglass's last posted pic, it simplifies what everyone is advising in just 1 picture,

The boat is turned turtle-upside down, the first 3 planks are full and have not been shaped, it is exactly like what you have done so far.

 

Then look at the planks below those 3 you can see they have been cut, shaped, spiled whatever term you want to use, I think this pick simplifies what you are asking:Whew:

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However, that proces is far more difficult in a bluff-bowed ship.

I don’t know how it is wirhbthis ship, but in my PW the distance between keel and deck was largest somewhere in the feont part: the frame length is comarable, but the sheer is quitestrong, i needed an additional plank there. With second planking. I choose to let the planks run slightly lower, and added a stealer as top plank (hope you understand....)

Jan

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Spyglass, 

 

The pic you posted is exactly what I had originally wanted to do and, I'm sure, what Mamoli had in mind when stating simply to taper the planks from the wale down. I just couldn't wrap my head around how to get there. My problem was seeing that massive sweep running fore and aft and having it propagate, if not get exaggerated, as I planked downward. 

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Spiled my first plank and got it glued on. Very happy with how it turned out. I tried to use the compass/card stock strip method for the spiling, but didn't have the dexterity to make it work, so I used the tape method that Chuck Passaro suggests in the tutorial. Only tape that I had that was wide enough was shipping tape - which doesn't take pencil markings too well. With some repetitive r ubbing of the pencil, I was able to get a clear mark on the tape. Tried cutting out on a scroll saw, but I'm just not that talented with it yet, so I reverted to an X-acto knife. A lot of effort for one plank, but I think it will be worth it.800366763_SpiledPlank.thumb.jpg.1d45b938f3566c64c8bd25b707288517.jpgPlanked.thumb.jpg.06cbb3431134dba54804d6404e2efccb.jpg 

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Thats very good I wouldnt have the patience to do that  for a first layer.

 

May I comment though before you go further - it will probably be the the pic angle but those bottom strips seem to show that the fairing around the keel between Bulkheads 3 &  4  is a little flat - dips a bit and that BH 10 is a fraction proud.  Getting the  BHs faired right saves a LOT of work sanding and filling once the planking is on

Edited by SpyGlass
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7 hours ago, frankwil said:

Spiled my first plank and got it glued on. Very happy with how it turned out. I tried to use the compass/card stock strip method for the spiling, but didn't have the dexterity to make it work, so I used the tape method that Chuck Passaro suggests in the tutorial. Only tape that I had that was wide enough was shipping tape - which doesn't take pencil markings too well. With some repetitive r ubbing of the pencil, I was able to get a clear mark on the tape. Tried cutting out on a scroll saw, but I'm just not that talented with it yet, so I reverted to an X-acto knife. A lot of effort for one plank, but I think it will be worth it.800366763_SpiledPlank.thumb.jpg.1d45b938f3566c64c8bd25b707288517.jpgPlanked.thumb.jpg.06cbb3431134dba54804d6404e2efccb.jpg 

Here is how I shape (spill) my planks. First, build yourself a simple jig - see a pic below.

A- base from plywood clamped to table

B- rectangle from ~ 1/8 in. plywood, glued to base A

C and D - another identical rectangle, but cut diagonally into two triangles: C - glued to A, and D - loose between B and C

E - small plane for shaving the planks

F- plank locked between B and D

 

After carefully ticking off points of plank widths corresponding for each frame/bulkhead (a distance [taken with proportional dividers or a strip of paper] between two battens on your hull), and transfering them onto your plank, place TWO identical planks in the jig between B and D and clamp them tightly in the jig.  (each plank will be for each side of the hull - after shaving them TOGETHER to the required shape, they should be identical - which you want them like that, since both sides of the planked hull should be identical) and besides, you want to make your work faster and simpler, don't you?

Connect the above mentioned points into a curve on your plank, using a spilling curve, a French curve (best made from metal, like aluminium).

Clamp both planks in the jig in such a way, that the plank with marked pencil line is facing you, and start shaving them carefully with the plane E - almost to the pencil line, but not quite so.

When you are almost there, finish shaping the pair od planks exactly with sandpaper glued to a paint mixing stick or similar, but sand each plank under certain angle rather than 90 degs. The plank facing you - sand it with a bevel towards you, the other one - in the opposite direction.

This will allow you to mount each plank on the hull very neatly and tightly next to the neighbouring plank and without ugly fissures in between.

 

Repeat the above for the next pair of planks and continue so.

Plank each bulwark with one plank and then go to the other side (bulwark) with the second plank, rather than planking straight ahead the entire bulwark and then continuing with the opposite side. This will prevent undesireable warping of the hull during drying off the moist planks (after you wet bent them).

 

 

I built this simple jig many years ago, following advice from the now defunct Seaways List, and to this day the jig still serves me well, saves lots of time and makes my planks very exact.

 

Greetings,

Thomas

PS: In addition to the above mentioned (excellent) sources of info on planking, I also wholeheartedly recommend a brochure by the late Jim Roberts "Planking the Built-up Ship Model", which is a bit more advanced than the book by Mastini, but explains clearly all problems a modeler might encounter during his/her build. The brochure, to my knowledge, is still available from Model Expo.

 

996711638_planktaperingjig.thumb.jpg.83d726f5a995e926fccc3693b1e98c70.jpg

Edited by Dziadeczek
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Thomas,

 

Thank you for the info. The jig is brilliant. I would make this one, but I have no way of cutting the diagonal cleanly. I think I can make something that will do the same thing though. I like the idea of using a plane to shape the two planks together. This cuts the work by half and I'm all for that. An X-acto never leaves anything close to a smooth edge either, and my scroll saw skills make it look a landscape horizon.

 

F.

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