CA-glue for ratlines?

[Mercator]

I have used ca glue for ratlines for years, never had any problems.. I have the Heller Soleil Royal with ca ratline build 37 years ago, no problems.

 

[Twokidsnosleep]

6 hours ago, Keith Black said:

I use polyester line because cotton rots. 

Will it take stain and glue?

[Keith Black]

18 minutes ago, Twokidsnosleep said:

Will it take stain and glue?

 I use Gutermann thread, no problems using CA and it paints and stains, for me. Scott, buy a spool (one spool is cheap) and test it. Always test materials before making any type of commitment for use on rigging. Rigging is too time consuming and difficult to mess around with untested materials, IMHO.   

[Gregory]

25 minutes ago, Twokidsnosleep said:

Will it take stain and glue?

It will if the thread used to make the line has small enough fibers, which is usually the case with 'rope' from a source like Syren..

I wouldn't use CA because of the shine.

[mtaylor]

I've been using cotton line for reasons.... for one it will take stains.   I use diluted white glue as I found the CA looks "blotchy" but that may be the way I apply it.  Matt varnish could also be used.   As for "fuzzsies"... I pull the line through a piece of beeswax and that takes care of probably 90% of them.   Some use a candle and pass the line quickly through the flame to remove the fuzzies. 

 

I do tend to buy "good" rope and it has minimal fuzzies to begin with.   

[Keith Black]

 Gregory, i've had success eliminating most of the shine by immediately dabbing the CA where applied with a Q-tip. If allowed to dry as is it will shine but it can be painted if you have matching paint and line color. 

[Keith Black]

 Mark, I don't like cotton because it rots so quickly. That and the fuzzies. 

[mtaylor]

13 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

 Mark, I don't like cotton because it rots so quickly. That and the fuzzies. 

I understand and respect that.  No problem.   I have a large stock of cotton so I'm just using up what I have.   I may consider synthetic down the road.

[VitusBering]

I know this is a hotly debated topic and I won't take sides but I have decided to use thinned PVA on my ratlines.

What mixing ratio should I use? I have standard Elmer's white glue (though it does say "new" formula).

[Gregory]

I have successfully used about 60/40..  ( water 40 )

[Bob Cleek]

On 3/25/2023 at 11:01 PM, Twokidsnosleep said:

So if I am reading between the lines correctly, one should chose cotton rope options from manufacturers and not the polyester as the latter will not take glues, stains and will not hold knots as well???

Is that correct?

What about those little fuzzies that come of natural fibers?

Reading between the lines will get you in trouble quickly and on the internet, even reading the lines themselves is not to be trusted!

 

The "finestkind" standard material for scale model rigging cordage used to be linen thread, but it's gotten practically unobtainable at this point, being replaced by various synthetics.  The synthetics don't take dye as well, nor, being inherently slippery, are they very amenable to holding a knot. Chuck Passaro has done a lot of research on thread for use as rigging. He related that the conservators in a highly respected museums now specify an advanced polyester thread as a replacement for linen. Their decision was reportedly based on considerations of its archival properties and appearance. (Chuck has further perfected a method of "proofing" polyester scale rope after it's made by briefly heating it with a hair dryer. This causes the polyester fibers to take a set and prevents unraveling.) I believe the general consensus at present is that the preferred material for rigging is Gutermann's Mara polyester thread. It should be kept in mind that cotton fibers swell when wet with water and polyester fibers don't. Some have reported poor results trying to secure polyester rope knots with thinned PVA which contains water, as might be expected. Polyester scale cordage is probably best secured with shellac which is dissolved in alcohol. It may turn out that using a lacquer or nitrocellulose adhesive won't work so well if their acetone solvent dissolves the polyester thread. (I don't know if it will, but I do know what happens when you pour acetone into a syrofoam cup!)

 

 

See: 

I have not noticed any issues with "fuzzies" in the use of Gutermann's Mara thread for scale model rigging. Should such arise, the cure is simply to "flame" the thread, by quickly passing the line over a flame (a laboratory alcohol lamp works well for this) and letting the flame singe the fuzz off.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[Keith Black]

17 minutes ago, Bob Cleek said:

It seems that the combination of cotton and polyester cancels out the shortcomings of each material alone.

 Bob, I checked and all Gutermann Mara is 100% polyester. 

[Bob Cleek]

24 minutes ago, Keith Black said:

 Bob, I checked and all Gutermann Mara is 100% polyester. 

Yes, you are correct! I wasn't absolutely sure and it niggled at me, so I checked myself as well and corrected that in my post. I was thinking of a cotton-wrapped polyester blend I'd read about when I first wrote that and then realized that might not have been Gutermann Mara. Mara is different from regular polyester thread, though. Its fibers are uniquely made "core spun microfilament polyester." (Whatever that means!) I expect this is what distinguishes it from the ordinary polyester thread on the market. It doesn't seem to have any of the shortcomings the others do. It's not "plastic-y" at all. At any rate, the stuff works very well. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[wefalck]

I have no issues with using nitrocellulose-based lacquers on polyester-threads (I am using fly-tying threads, rather than Mara, which is still too coarse for my scales) and partly washing it off using acetone. Polyesters are another group of chemical compounds than polystyrene and have a much higher chemical resistance to organic solvents (which is why you can dry-clean fabrics made from them).

 

I wonder why dying seems to be such an obsession in the discussion here, as particularly Mara seems to be available (in principle) in so many different shades of beige, grey, brown to black. Even for my fly-tying threads I can find suitable colours in the ranges of different manufacturers.

 

Otherwise, a 'tarred' look, where the strands appear lighter than the grooves between them could be achieved by giving the rope a wash with an ink and wipe off the excess.

[glbarlow]

Why is dying a question, thread and rope are available in every color needed. Wasn’t dying a thing with old, long ago kits that just through in white cordage.

 

I’ve used both CA and diluted white PVA (my formula is simple, it’s right when it’s milk not milkshake) both work fine in different ways with different results. I now prefer clear matte acrylic (my choice is Liquitex) for most rigging and especially ratlines. It dries clear and near invisible leaving no shine or lumps. 
 

Rather than read all our opinions, do a test abs see what works best for you. 

[Gregory]

On 3/26/2023 at 2:01 AM, Twokidsnosleep said:

not the polyester as the latter will not take glues, stains and will not hold knots as well

Just to elaborate a bit on what Glenn said, somewhere along the line people got the idea that water-based whatever would not stick to polyester because polyester is essentially plastic, and we all know how water behaves on a plastic surface. 

However, polyester thread is made up of almost microscopic fibers - think fuzz - and water based whatever will saturate the space between those fibers, dry , and essentially become part of the thread/line made from the thread.

 

[wefalck]

Well, plastic is not plastic. It depends on the molecular formulation, whether the surfaces are hydrophobic (water repellent) or more hydrophilic (water spreads out, rathern forming droplets). Some plastics, such as acrylics are more hydrophilic ...

 

When you smear some goo (paint, glue, varnish, whatever ...) onto polyester thread two things will happen:

 

- there will be a physico-chemical interaction with the 'surface', either it is repelled or attracted; organic solvent-based goo tends to be attracted by hydrophobic surfaces, while water-based goo (say acrylic paint, PVA-glue) would be repelled by such surfaces and vice versa.

 

- however, the goo also penetrates the structure of e.g. a polyester rope and solidifies in there, i.e. it keys into such surface structures. In this way water-based goo may stick to hydrophobic material by purely mechanical interaction.

 

[Gregory]

With thread, it's not just the surface..  It penetrates between the fibers and creates a coating that surrounds the fibers whether it bonds to them or not.

 

I was trying to keep it simple, but I realize  all plastics are not the same.

[usedtosail]

I have been using Dullcoat Lacquer on the Mara polyester ropes I make for the past 5 years with good results.