Preussen by Ian_Grant - Heller - 1/150 - PLASTIC

[Kevin-the-lubber]

Here's the irony - more years ago than I care to remember I worked for a few months in the shipyard in Lubeck, and in Hamburg, though not Blohm & Voss, I'd probably enjoy both experiences even more if I had that time again. But nevertheless, obviously quite different to the Preussen. Seems like plans are not hard to find https://hec.lrfoundation.org.uk/archive-library/ships/preussen-1902

 

[Ian_Grant]

6 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

9” longer than the Victory is getting large - I guess that’s why they went for 1/150, so it’d still fit in the average house. I read somewhere recently that this was part of the general design brief for these larger models.

 

Its a pricey kit though, about £150 it seems, whereas the Passat is only £65. So many models…. I’d best finish the CS before getting distracted!

150 euro!  I did not pay that but I did have to look hard for one, eventually getting it from France. If you would like to build a Preussen, a cheaper route is to buy a "Cap Horn" 5-mast barque kit and simply convert the jigger to square rig. This less popular kit is a made-up ship that never existed as far as I know but is otherwise identical to the kit Preussen.

 

Kevin, if you go back to post #12 of this log, someone had a kit to sell. Maybe they still do?

 

Or you can build Cap Horn as "Potosi" which did exist in the same Laeisz fleet as Preussen and was in fact handier to maneuver, being barque rigged. Bill Morrison is doing this as mentioned earlier in this log.

 

The hull is about 9" longer than Victory's hull, but their overall lengths are about the same. Preussen is a more compact finished model than Victory, much narrower and shorter. Here is a pic.

 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Ian_Grant

[Ian_Grant]

While responding to Kevin, I noticed I hadn't posted in a month. Still moving from mast to mast adding backstays. To break the tedium I added the boom and gaffs to the jigger and also installed the cargo boom. The monkey gaff still lacks a pair of guys.

 

Coils of pre-belayed running rigging accumulating. I'm glad I am omitting all buntlines! 😁

[Veszett Roka]

1 hour ago, Ian_Grant said:

If you would like to build a Preussen, a cheaper route is to buy a "Cap Horn" 5-mast barque kit and simply convert the jigger to square rig. This less popular kit is a made-up ship that never existed as far as I know but is otherwise identical to the kit Preussen.

Correct, they are same, the vacuum formed sails sheet still has 'Preussen' name. If intend to build Potosi, you need to add a second gaff to the jigger mast (sail plan here), as the kit has only one, but Potosi had double. You can check out the Cap Horn kit here. Pity, 100Eur still.  

[Kevin-the-lubber]

2 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

If you would like to build a Preussen, a cheaper route is to buy a "Cap Horn" 5-mast barque kit and simply convert the jigger to square rig.

Very tempting, as that too is around the £60 mark. Like you I'm very taken by the raised walkways but also that there's a lot of stuff on the decks. As you know, I do like a bit of detail! It was the raised walkway that caught my eye on Rob's Glory of the Seas. We shall have to see. Not least, how I get on with rigging the Cutty - despite the absence of deadeyes etc you seem to have an awful lot of lines on that ship. I'm reasonably okay with persevering with a difficult problem, less so with endless repetition.

[Ian_Grant]

3 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

<snip..snip>  I'm reasonably okay with persevering with a difficult problem, less so with endless repetition.

Wait until I get to the ratlines .... 🤪

[Bill Morrison]

Ian,

As I've said early into your build, I'm a big fan of your Preussen. You are doing extremely well. I had started with my conversion of the very similar kit of the fictional Cap Horn to the real Flying P-Liner Potosi, but I have put it aside to work on my conversion of the Revell CSS Alabama to better reflect the real ship. I am almost finished with her and will get back to the Potosi, using your Preussen as inspiration!

Bill Morrison

[Ian_Grant]

Thank you Bill.  I wondered why you seemed to drop off the radar..............😉

[Bill Morrison]

Ian, 

 

I dropped off the radar after my wife suffered a cardiac aneurism and nearly died. After she finally got well, I suffered several injuries, breaking my hip and my left knee.  I then focused my efforts on the CSS Alabama while I got better. Unfortunately, I have not gotten better yet, but the Alabama is almost done.

 

Bill

[Ian_Grant]

Good God Bill! So sorry to hear about all that.....hope you both are fully recovered soon!

 

Best Regards,

Ian

[Bill Morrison]

Thanks, Ian.  My wife has recovered but I might need further surgery.

 

Bill

 

[Veszett Roka]

4 hours ago, Bill Morrison said:

Thanks, Ian.  My wife has recovered but I might need further surgery.

 

Bill

 

Real pirates must have some scratches Bill. Get well soon!

[Ian_Grant]

Standing rigging done at last! Well, except the ratlines.

 

I accidentally bumped the bowsprit and broke the martingales. Glued them up but the outer broke again later, I barely touched it. Needed to get beneath to work on it. Tried this arrangement, but lighting from below and dazzle from above were issues.....

....so switched to this setup which was much better. I ended up replacing my brass tube martingales with thread, doubled and twisted like I did for the guys. I also replaced the dolphin striker with a slightly stouter tube.

 

Last standing rigging line to do was the fore royal stay. Wouldn't you know it, when I pulled it taut my little white rigging screw on the bowsprit came apart - brass tube separated from the etched eye on the bowsprit; not enough glue. Then the damn thing twinged off my tweezers while I attempted to re-glue it and went off to the 4th dimension. Had to make and paint a new one.

 

Here's a shot of the bowsprit with its rigging screws. The two on the centre line tighten the inner and outer jibstays; the one to port (barely seen) is the doubled fore topgallant stay; that to starboard is the fore royal stay (single). This is all in accordance with Longridge. I doubled the topgallant stays too, just to give them some "heft" as my thread is slightly smaller than scale. Still haven't trimmed the safety netting! Also realized I forgot the footropes but at this point I will leave it as is.

Here are some shots of the current state, with my patented background white. Not bad except the fore and mizzen topgallant masts ended up bowed back a little. Especially the fore mast. But athwartships alignment is good!

For the running rigging I drilled holes through the pin rails adjacent to the vestigial pins Heller provided. Lines pass through the hole and are tied in a knot, then covered with little "coils". This photo was meant to show this but the coils on the opposite bulwark rails are, sadly, out of focus. The untrimmed ends of the shrouds await their white seizings, between the ratlines.

Shrouds, stays, etc were simply clove-hitched to the masts. It looks ok as seen here although the accumulated turns are double that of authentic rigging. No one will know except us.

And finally a shot which attempts to show the density of the backstays on this ship. I just noticed there is a clip still on one of the fore topgallant shrouds....oops!

 

Last major task is to add the yards. Each requires four blocks of some sort, for either clew lines or downhauls depending on whether it's a fixed or movable yard. The topsail sheets will be chain, slightly over-scale but I wanted to show them as such to add to the majesty. 😉 As you can see there are many yards. Still undecided about their footropes......at this scale......leaning towards no.

But just before I get there.......ratlines!!??  To be in scale I'd need a ratline every 0.1" times five masts. I estimate 3100 half-hitches. 🤪😭  Not sure I want to do them but feel ship would look odd without them........

I have no idea what to use for these..........fly tying line?....wire?....any suggestions welcome.

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Ian_Grant
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[Kevin-the-lubber]

Good grief, 3000+ tiny knots? I think I’d just bodge that, one way or another, or find some spurious justification to not do them, but then my patience and perseverance do have some limits. It seems to be a week for breaking our models, along with mine another chap has snapped delicate bits while rigging.

 

Anyway, the ship still looks magnificent.

[jerome]

You could always just tie the ratlines first knot, glue it to the other shrouds and cut off the end later.

at least it would cut down the amount of knot tying.

[Ian_Grant]

Thanks Kevin and Jerome! Jerome you have me thinking - the topgallant and topmast shrouds are only in twos and threes anyway so maybe skip the knots on the centre topmast shroud. For the lower, maybe just knot the two ends as well.....hmmm.....

[Ian_Grant]

15 hours ago, Kevin-the-lubber said:

Good grief, 3000+ tiny knots? I think I’d just bodge that, one way or another, or find some spurious justification to not do them, but then my patience and perseverance do have some limits. It seems to be a week for breaking our models, along with mine another chap has snapped delicate bits while rigging.

 

Anyway, the ship still looks magnificent.

Actually, I looked again at my Heller Victory, and it's not impossibly more knots than for her. Keep in mind that Victory's fore and main lower ratlines tie off to 9 and sometimes 11 shrouds so they add up very quickly too.

[Kevin-the-lubber]

You’re scaring me. 3D printed shrouds and ratlines being considered already. Whatever you do, don’t tell Bill, he’ll never leave that beach.

 

Now I think about, printed really might not be such a daft idea. You can do the most amazing cables in f360.

[gak1965]

I wound up chickening out on my Passat. 1 fewer mast but at 10/inch, what a mess. And the Heller Ratline maker was a joke. 

 

One thing to check, the current Passat only has ratlines on 3 of the shrouds per mast, did Preussen use them all or did they only use the inner ones? I don't think people went aloft as much on the newer windjammers as compared to say a 19th Century warship

[Ian_Grant]

I think the main reason windjammer ratlines didn't need to be as wide is because there were far fewer men trying to get aloft at once; Victory for example would put more men on a topsail yard for reefing her massive sails than Preussen probably had on watch.

 

Earlier in this log there was a brief discussion on ratlines and shrouds. Veszett in post #43 sent pics of a model showing six shrouds on the lower masts with ratlines spanning four, or six for every 5th one; also a photo of Preussen a few posts later that seem to show six. Heller only has five shrouds which I ended up not changing. So I suppose I could do three, or five every 5th one. That would be somewhat fewer knots than I estimated. I don't mind the tedium of tying the knots, I'm just afraid that at 1/10" spacing they'll look more like a solid wall unless I can find some very fine non-fuzzy line. I may cheat and go to 1/8" spacing; just don't tell anyone! 😄

[Ian_Grant]

Took a crack at some test ratlines on a little jig, using my trusty 0.1mm Amati tan line.

 

I found the knots were hard to tighten on the shroud threads, I think because the ratlines are not far smaller relative to them. On the 1/100 Victory the ratlines are significantly smaller than the shrouds and the knots formed better.

 

Clove hitches were large looking here, and I could not get the two loops to converge together properly on the shroud, so I resorted to half hitches. Not all that happy with the result, see below. The ratlines got tighter with practice as I went up, but on the other hand the left shroud started to hourglass.

 

Pondering my next move............ 😫

[Roger Pellett]

Ian,  instead of clove hitches how about simple overhand knots secured with a tiny dab of fixative; shellac or my preferred clear fingernail polish.  Should go quickly.

 

Roger

[gak1965]

On 6/21/2022 at 4:59 PM, Ian_Grant said:

Clove hitches were large looking here, and I could not get the two loops to converge together properly on the shroud, so I resorted to half hitches. Not all that happy with the result, see below. The ratlines got tighter with practice as I went up, but on the other hand the left shroud started to hourglass.

 

 

 

Pondering my next move.... 😫

Part.of the problem may be that the shrouds on your test jig aren't under the same amount of tension as the shrouds on the ship, and that tension helps prevent hourglassing. In addition, with my Niagara I clamped two pieces of wood strip on both sides of the shrouds about an inch above where I was working to fight the tendency of the knots to pull the shrouds in.

 

I wouldn't bother with clove hitches. The scale is so small that almost no matter how good you are, they are going to look too big. At 1:150, a 0.3 mm tall knot (probably the best you can do with 0.1mm thread) is 1.75 inches at scale. I'm with Roger, go with simple overhand knots, secure with some glue or whatever. They won't tug on the shrouds as much and they won't be nearly as bulky. 

 

Looking great!

 

George

[Ian_Grant]

Yes I think overhand knots are the answer.

 

On Victory, I tied several widely spaced ratlines along the shrouds, and put glue on them to make them rigid. Then I filled in the intervening ratlines with less fear of hourglassing. Only problem was the glue darkened them, so I matt varnished the lot afterwards.

[Roger Pellett]

Ian,

 

The little bottles with the brush in the lid of clear lacquer based fingernail polish are convenient, and readily available.  It dries almost instantly and will secure knots without building up the bulk of the knot like glue.

 

Standard caution:  try on something else before using.

 

Roger

 

 

[GrandpaPhil]

For small scale models, I use overhand knots with thinned down white glue applied periodically.

[Dave Stick]

Hi Guys been following the build for some time whilst working on my Pamir. I’ve been inspired by Ian’s work on Preussen and the support given by other followers. Great group of helpful folks!

Just a thought on the ratlin ideas and considering when I built Cutty Sark and Thermopylae many years ago. I didn’t knot either end but just used a tiny spot of superglue. Hasn’t failed after 20+ years!

Any thoughts?

[Ian_Grant]

Hi Dave;  When I built my Revell Cutty Sark in the 70's as a naive teenager I just used model glue to attach all my "coils" to belaying pins. That hasn't failed either which is almost unbelievable to me!

 

I used CA on my Heller Victory build too, even though I read some warnings on MSW about using CA on rigging. Some people are quite adamantly against it but my Victory seems ok so far.

 

I sure would like to get on and finish this build (I know exactly where to display her). I've been seduced by another build, a Roman galley for radio control, after interrupting Preussen to experiment on oar drive mechanisms.

 

I don't see a log for your Pamir, but I find the search engine a bit problematic; I'm sure it's just me.

Do you have one....if not I'd love to see your work! Not too many windjammers hereabouts!

 

Regards,

Ian

[Veszett Roka]

Hi Dave,

 

I built my Vasa some 30 years ago with superglued ratlines, because i found the knots in 1:144 scale way too big. They didn't failed at all. So i think i will follow that path on my Pamir too.

[Dave Stick]

23 hours ago, Ian_Grant said:

Hi Dave;  When I built my Revell Cutty Sark in the 70's as a naive teenager I just used model glue to attach all my "coils" to belaying pins. That hasn't failed either which is almost unbelievable to me!

 

I used CA on my Heller Victory build too, even though I read some warnings on MSW about using CA on rigging. Some people are quite adamantly against it but my Victory seems ok so far.

 

I sure would like to get on and finish this build (I know exactly where to display her). I've been seduced by another build, a Roman galley for radio control, after interrupting Preussen to experiment on oar drive mechanisms.

 

I don't see a log for your Pamir, but I find the search engine a bit problematic; I'm sure it's just me.

Do you have one....if not I'd love to see your work! Not too many windjammers hereabouts!

 

Regards,

Ian

THi Guys been following the build for some time whilst working on my Pamir. I’ve been inspired by Ian’s work on Preussen and the support given by other followers. Great group of helpful folks!

Just a thought on the ratlin ideas and considering when I built Cutty Sark and Thermopylae many years ago. I didn’t knot either end but just used a tiny spot of superglue. Hasn’t failed after 20+ years!

Any thoughts?