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Posted

Fantastic progress by any measure.  I love that bow shot with the lights inside.  

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

Posted

Brian,

Congratulations on your amazing modeling effort, including research and maintaining your NRG Forum, in only 2 years. Many thanks for the guided Museum photographic tour. I have attached 2 photos that were included in Bob Hill's Tampa Bay Ship Modelers group Tour from 2012 that appear to me to represent the junior officers quarters on the gundeck under the port and starboard casements. Bob did not provide a label for these particular photos and couldn't remember seeing any placard for them but assumed they were from inside the Cairo museum. (His group consisted of about 10 members and wives, each taking pictures, some under exposed.) I was hoping that you may have seen this display and could shed some light to their intended purpose.  Your photos under the decks of the boilers & engines are fabulous compared to those from our "Professional" photographer's visit6 in 2018, so thanks again. I have spent many hours trying to figure out how the two individual engine controls were actually coordinated (Speed and reversal) while connected to a single paddlewheel. Shortly after the CW, a single control design operated both engines.

 I have also attached one of several contemporary CW photos which supports Doug Ashleys' NPS HSR drawing location for the aft ventilation funnels between the Hog Chain Support Posts, and wonder if you can explain this contradiction. The ventilation funnels themselves consisted of two sections, the lower of which was just a straight tube. The idea was to raise and rotate the flared upper section as necessary to best utilize the local wind conditions and ironclads motion to keep the lower decks.as cool as possible. The overall height of the ventilator is therefore not a reliable indicator of its location when stored. I believe I have even seen a photo of the complete forward funnel leaning against the engine exhaust stack, but couldn't immediately locate it. Your other potential skylight locations are interesting and do deserve thorough investigation. We have previously concluded the temporary removal & relocation of  one of the 4 Pitman arm observation skylight next to the Wheelhouse on the USS DeKalb accounts for the skylight on the aft starboard end of the  hurricane deck.

 

JOHNHOWARD

 

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Posted (edited)

Thank you all for the likes and comments. Eric, not sure if Hallmark is hiring or not, but you might make it at as a greeting card writer as a second job. 😁

 

22 hours ago, johnhoward said:

Many thanks for the guided Museum photographic tour. I have attached 2 photos that were included in Bob Hill's Tampa Bay Ship Modelers group Tour from 2012 that appear to me to represent the junior officers quarters on the gundeck under the port and starboard casements. Bob did not provide a label for these particular photos and couldn't remember seeing any placard for them but assumed they were from inside the Cairo museum. (His group consisted of about 10 members and wives, each taking pictures, some under exposed.) I was hoping that you may have seen this display and could shed some light to their intended purpose.

Johnhoward, You are most welcome. The photos of the tent that you attached are actually a diorama display in the Welcome Center at the park entrance. This display shows as a representation of the standard field tents used during the siege and not indicative of the junior officers quarters onboard the Cairo. I had thought that I had taken some pictures while we were in the Welcome Center, but I guess I didn't. My wife took several pictures of our tour as well, but I haven't downloaded those picture from her phone yet. Once I do, I'll peruse through them and see if she got a picture of the placard on this display.

 

 

 

22 hours ago, johnhoward said:

I have also attached one of several contemporary CW photos which supports Doug Ashleys' NPS HSR drawing location for the aft ventilation funnels between the Hog Chain Support Posts, and wonder if you can explain this contradiction.

I'm not sure that I can truly explain the difference between the Ashley's NPR drawings and the photos, other than that back in 1981 they didn't have the luxury of the internet which made it a little harder to look up information as easy, and much of the earlier documentation was based off of old, limited information that they were able to obtain and what was salvaged from the Cairo. Based on my conversation with Ray at Vicksburg, there have been many details, that after further study, have shown to be in error. In the 40+ years since the HSR and drawings were published a lot of study, research and technology has helped identify certain areas that were incorrect on the initial survey of the wreckage. Hopefully I don't sound like I am beating up on the museum, that is truly not my intention, but I did discover that there was a error with one of their display facts. They have a side room from the main gallery of artifacts, a little alcove that gives a brief history of the City-Class gunboats. On one of the displays they show what is labeled as the crew of the Carondelet. At first I thought, I need to locate a better picture of this since it might be a great study picture to hopefully get some deck details from, and since the photo in the museum was a bit grainy. I managed to find a high resolution version of the photo and soon discovered that this was actually the crew of the USS Choctaw. I wonder if the museum knows of this error?

 

This is a snapshot from the museum display.

1673686407_ChoctawCrewfromMuseum.thumb.JPG.691e3af5c1a8fd8cf41ca00206387bd8.JPG

Original photograph from the Naval History and Heritage Command website. (they do list these photos as public domain and allow their reuse). 

2017012168_ChoctawCrewHighres.JPG.b57f24dbbe14582148b0890b03adbfd9.JPG

 

If you look closely at the photo of the St. Louis you attached, you can make out what appears to be the same skylight/hatchway structure between the hog chain posts (outlined in red below) as the Cairo, and the funnel looks like it is in front (outboard) of this structure. On the old photos of the Cairo and the Pittsburg the funnels are located forward of the hog chain posts and outboard of them. Granted, since these photos are not dated, there could have been several modifications and repairs done to these boats during that time. The Cairo photograph has been well documented that it was taken shortly after her commissioning in January 1862, so she would not have been modified too terribly much. This is evident by the missing railroad irons on her forward casements (added May 1862) as well as the additional reinforcements to the forward side of her pilot house and viewport covers (added March 1862). These two photos are what I based my location of the funnels on. However, the Cairo's aft funnels could have been located in the same position as the ones on the St. Louis and, like you mentioned before, removed temporarily for some reason or another, and stood up in it's location in the photo. The only doubts I have about this would be that there was not a lot of room between the skylight/hatchway and the hammock rails to walk around and that two different boats appear to have them in the same location. 

 

St. Louis skylight/hatchway

219655517_StLouisFunnel.JPG.8cb18caa86b094ac0ad8642d613e1b88.JPG

 

Pittsburgh

2039086804_PittsburghFunnel.thumb.JPG.835e7a17185f36b44cf91ad86cb20bb0.JPG

 

Pittsburgh's port hog chain posts shown in red with the aft funnel located forward of the posts.

1497494057_PittsburghFunnelCloseup.JPG.d1c4d45648410d361028d36479765722.JPG

I would think that there could be some slight variances in the construction of these boats and could constitute the differences in the funnel placement. Many of the structures on the Hurricane deck were made from pine, including the deck boards (on the Hurricane and Gun Decks). Since this area was exposed to the water the longest after she sank, and pine not being a very durable wood when exposed to water for any length of time, a lot of this area rotted away before the salvage. This could also explain why they are not shown on the 1968 drawings or the 1981 HSR. But in my opinion, I do believe that the structure circled below on the Cairo photograph is a another hatchway to the Gun Deck and is something that was not included when they published the HSR.

1142267386_NewHatchway.JPG.45f0f87aaf2c4c66287378380fdeeeb0.JPG

 

 

 

22 hours ago, johnhoward said:

I believe I have even seen a photo of the complete forward funnel leaning against the engine exhaust stack, but couldn't immediately locate it.

I wasn't sure if the next photo is the one that you are referring to, but it is the one that I referenced in an earlier post of the Mound City forward funnels, However, after further study, I don't think that the funnel is leaning against the chimney, but rather looks to have been extended upward with somewhat of a lean to it. The same modification looks to have been done on the Louisville as well judging by the second photo.

 

Mound City

876554608_MoundCityFunnel.thumb.JPG.27656a0afa472c099496f4dcea78d5b4.JPG

Louisville

1236308459_LouisvilleFunnel.JPG.4e7ebdfd1895c42a21205f46b936403f.JPG

Thank you all again for stopping by.

 

-Brian

Edited by mbp521

Current Builds:                                                                                                 Completed Builds:

Mississippi River Towboat Caroline N.                                                    HMB Endeavor: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                    USS Constitution - Cross Section: Mamoli

Non-Ship Builds:                                                                                              HMS Victory - Cross Section: Corel

New Shipyard                                                                                             King of the Mississippi - Steamboat: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                     Battle Station Section: Panart (Gallery)

In Dry-dock                                                                                               Chaperon - 1884 Steamer: Model Shipways  

USS Constellation: Aretesania Latina                                                       USS Cairo - 1862 Ironclad: Scratch Build 

Flying Fish: Model Shipways                                                                               

                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                            

Posted

Hi Brian,

It's too bad "Old Abe" didn't use one of his hot-air observation balloons to take a photo of an ironclad for us future model makers sanity sake. I'm still having a problem with your suggested locations for the aft ventilation funnels relative to the "Hog Chain" Posts. I''ve attached the plan view & side view of Ashley's HSR version which I think is relatively correct. The problem of using the single USS Pittsburg photograph appears to be following the unknown Ironclad deck edge , 45-degree casement & vertical Hammock Rails, all relative to the photographer position, you tend to lose the horizontal location on the deck. If you visually connect the 4 Hog Chain Posts with imaginary lines in the USS St Louis Skylight Hatchway photograph, the positions of both the port and starboard Ventilation Funnels appears to be just forward the Aft Hog Chine Posts and at the aft gunport station. The hatchway you found appears to be in the same vicinity and for that reason, I would seriously consider a multiple function hatchway/ventilator. Some of the photographs show the ventilation funnels in various stages of height disassembly for either optimum ventilation or temporary storage on the decks, thus confusing our possible interpretations. One final consideration for the. aft ventilation funnels is that they must be located where they best ventilate the extremely hot engine rooms; not the gun decks, and not the boilers which already have large open grates or gun ports for this function. While there is a possibility of modifications between the City Class configurations, they were all built within a year of each other and neither the USS St. Louis nor the USS Cairo served very long before they were sunk. The USS Cincinnati was sunk and re-floated at least twice and further research into its repair/overhaul record would be of great interest. 

JOHNHOWARD

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Posted

Johnhoward,

 

3 hours ago, johnhoward said:

It's too bad "Old Abe" didn't use one of his hot-air observation balloons to take a photo of an ironclad for us future model makers sanity sake.

Oh how I wish someone would have taken aerial photos of these boats. It sure would make building them a whole lot easier. However, then it would take all the fun out of researching and interpreting what information we have to make the best representation possible. Not to mention we would not be able to have these great conversations about them.

 

 

3 hours ago, johnhoward said:

I would seriously consider a multiple function hatchway/ventilator. Some of the photographs show the ventilation funnels in various stages of height disassembly for either optimum ventilation or temporary storage on the decks, thus confusing our possible interpretations.

This option had crossed my mind. I had thought that the funnel tube through the deck could be located inside the hatchway, putting it pretty much in line with the plans. The main reason for not taking that route was the fact that the door to the hatchway (skylight) looks to be closed framed with long narrow glass panes in it, Now, on the picture of the Cairo that does show this skylight, the middle section is blocked by the hog chain post and a crewmember so there could possibly be a pass through area where the funnel could be installed when the skylight is closed. Doesn't seem real efficient, but it could be a possibility that they could have the funnel in the location shown on the plans, they remove the funnel, open the skylight, and use the hatchway to load supplies, then put everything back together when done.

 

A simplified drawing of this possibility.

2135971996_FunnelHatchwayDesign.JPG.37ef8bf6f9c075d1174dd9524310e02e.JPG

 

 

3 hours ago, johnhoward said:

One final consideration for the. aft ventilation funnels is that they must be located where they best ventilate the extremely hot engine rooms; not the gun decks, and not the boilers which already have large open grates or gun ports for this function.

I agree with this consideration 100% that they would indeed provide perfect ventilation for the engines. The issue I see with this is, although the funnels are directly in line with the engines, they are too far forward going by their location on the HSR plans. I took the Gun Deck and Hurricane Deck plans and overlaid them in a CAD program (see picture below), and given the location of the framing shown on the plans, in relation to the engine room, the funnels would have been roughly 10' forward of the forward most part of the engines. If the interpretation of the plans are correct, they show a wall structure surrounding the engine room on the forward, port and starboard sides, which would render these funnels ineffective in removing heat from the engine room given their location. If this wall structure does not exist, they may be somewhat effective at removing some of the heat, but the majority of the airflow through the Gun Deck would be rearward (while underway) so placing the funnels forward of the engines to remove that heat seems like a design flaw.

780265284_Overlay01.thumb.JPG.a2c0cd51756c2bc0653ad861234de0dd.JPG

 

I have to ask though, the drawings that you have on your last post. Which ones are those? I have the Ashley drawings, the Bob Hill Plans and the ones from the HSR, but I don't believe that I have seen those. They have a great diagram of the guys for the chimneys and masts and show their accurate locations anchored to the hog chain posts and stanchions as opposed to the other drawings that have them anchored to the Hurricane Deck.

 

-Brian

Current Builds:                                                                                                 Completed Builds:

Mississippi River Towboat Caroline N.                                                    HMB Endeavor: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                    USS Constitution - Cross Section: Mamoli

Non-Ship Builds:                                                                                              HMS Victory - Cross Section: Corel

New Shipyard                                                                                             King of the Mississippi - Steamboat: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                     Battle Station Section: Panart (Gallery)

In Dry-dock                                                                                               Chaperon - 1884 Steamer: Model Shipways  

USS Constellation: Aretesania Latina                                                       USS Cairo - 1862 Ironclad: Scratch Build 

Flying Fish: Model Shipways                                                                               

                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                            

Posted

John, I think Brian offers a good solution.  All the skylights in my Victoria (1855) had ventilation of some sort incorporated - so this makes sense.

 

cheers

 

Pat

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

Posted

Brian & Pat,

You raised some darn good issues and it took me awhile to remember back about 10 years when we started planning for our USS St. Louis model of the City Class Ironclad for the St. Louis Civil War Museum(SLCWM) for answers.  First about the drawing in my last (#515) posting. This was a cover sheet provided by the SLCWM for Ashley's "HSR" 28 Sheet Set of drawings at scale of 1: 48 for the model they wanted us to build for them at twice that scale or 1:24. This sheet has no title block but is marked in the field as "USS Cairo" , Scale 3/8 ' = 1' 0", ATTERIDGE-83.  At that time none of our Model Shipcrafters knew anything about the USS Cairo or other City-Class Ironclads. Ashley's drawing is dated 1981 and contains all the required information, so we simply copied his 28 sheets at twice scale.

While building the USS St. Louis at the large 1: 24 scale we discovered numerous physical inconsistencies between Ashley's drawings alignment of the individual decks. One of these was the location of the aft Ventilation Funnels shown in your previous Gun Deck/ Hurricane Deck Overlay drawing. Our initial interpretation determined that your light blue parallel lines actually depict the cross-over walkway mis-located too far forward by about one width space.  Your red line is not a full wall but is actually a short open hand railing on the aft side of this crossover walkway, with an opening in it for a short stairway down to the floor of the engine room. The light blue circle obviously represents the ventilation funnel but we believe it is actually also aft of the boiler room wall further aft over the open cross-over walkway. Since the walkway is also probably has a fine open grated surface it wouldn't disrupt its ventilation affect.. 

I also agree that your sketch, Brian, of a combined ventilator, skylight has a lot of merit. There is also mention in the Log of a metal forge area below deck of the USS Carondelet, near the Hog Chain Stanchions, outboard of the Boiler room that would need some ventilation.  

 

Still having fun,

JOHNHOWARD

 

  

Posted

You have done quite a lot in two years. Some of us are quite a lot slower!!!! She is looking wonderful and like you I thought the illuminated bow shot was real cool.

Keith

 

Current Build:-

Cangarda (Steam Yacht) - Scale 1:24

 

Previous Builds:-

 

Schooner Germania (Nova) - Scale 1:36

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19848-schooner-germania-nova-by-keithaug-scale-136-1908-2011/

Schooner Altair by KeithAug - Scale 1:32 - 1931

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12515-schooner-altair-by-keithaug-scale-132-1931/?p=378702

J Class Endeavour by KeithAug - Amati - Scale 1:35 - 1989 after restoration.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10752-j-class-endeavour-by-keithaug-amati-scale-135-1989-after-restoration/?p=325029

 

Other Topics

Nautical Adventures

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13727-nautical-adventures/?p=422846

 

 

Posted

There were at that time so-called field-forges, used by the military. They are essentially a cast-iron basin on legs with a hand-driven ventilator underneath to supply the draught. They have a half-hood in sheet over it to arrest sparks.

wefalck

 

panta rhei - Everything is in flux

 

 

M-et-M-72.jpg  Banner-AKHS-72.jpg  Banner-AAMM-72.jpg  ImagoOrbis-72.jpg
Posted (edited)
On 5/28/2022 at 9:39 PM, johnhoward said:

First about the drawing in my last (#515) posting. This was a cover sheet provided by the SLCWM for Ashley's "HSR" 28 Sheet Set of drawings at scale of 1: 48 for the model they wanted us to build for them at twice that scale or 1:24. This sheet has no title block but is marked in the field as "USS Cairo" , Scale 3/8 ' = 1' 0", ATTERIDGE-83.

Johnhoward, funny that this drawing is more accurate than some of Doug Ashley's, at least in the fact that they got the guy anchor point located in the correct places. Would you happen to have a full picture of these drawings to share? I'd like to get a better look at the overall drawings to see how the SLCWM interpreted the design.

 

On 5/28/2022 at 9:39 PM, johnhoward said:

While building the USS St. Louis at the large 1: 24 scale we discovered numerous physical inconsistencies between Ashley's drawings alignment of the individual decks. One of these was the location of the aft Ventilation Funnels shown in your previous Gun Deck/ Hurricane Deck Overlay drawing. Our initial interpretation determined that your light blue parallel lines actually depict the cross-over walkway mis-located too far forward by about one width space.  Your red line is not a full wall but is actually a short open hand railing on the aft side of this crossover walkway, with an opening in it for a short stairway down to the floor of the engine room. The light blue circle obviously represents the ventilation funnel but we believe it is actually also aft of the boiler room wall further aft over the open cross-over walkway. Since the walkway is also probably has a fine open grated surface it wouldn't disrupt its ventilation affect..

This is a tough one. During the salvage there were numerous door knobs and locksets recovered and one almost fully intact door. The door is believed to have come from the captains quarters, however, there is no explanation of the other door knobs and locksets. Where did they come from? Could these have been from the junior officers quarters? Some descriptions of the junior officers quarters are they were made of canvas walls that could be taken down expediently, so it seems that there would be no need for doors there. My other thoughts are there had to be other doors somewhere else on the ship, Possibly access doors from the gun deck to the boiler room or engine rooms? There is written documentation that when the Cairo was refitted with the railroad irons on her forward casements, the crew also used some of the same materials to fortify the boiler room walls on the gun deck to prevent a catastrophe similar to the one on board the Mound City. Since there were walls along the sides of the boiler room, would there be the possibility of doors along these walls allowing access to the fire room from the gun deck as shown in Ashley's plans?  if so, this could account for at least two other doors. Where were there others?

 

The walkway between the boiler room and the engine room was the location of where one of the cuts were made by the salvagers when they decided to bring the boat up in three sections, so not a lot of this area survived. Personally I believe that some of the documentation of this area is left to interpretation by Ashley. It was also through this area where the "Doctor" pump was lost and the skylights & aft funnels were as well, so there is no telling what else fell out when this section was brought up.

 

Some photos of the center piece of the boat being recovered showing the aft side of the boilers and the steam drum coming up. In the first photo, you can make out what looks to be a solid deck running behind the boiler tubes, Not sure if this would be that walkway or not, but it is possible. The skylights and the aft funnels would have be located in the area that is sitting on top of the barge,

IMG_7546.JPG.db84ff3dbbce96c2cf512f011af5d835.JPG

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These pictures bring tears to my eyes sometimes. Man did these guys make a mess of the recovery.

 

-Brian

Edited by mbp521

Current Builds:                                                                                                 Completed Builds:

Mississippi River Towboat Caroline N.                                                    HMB Endeavor: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                    USS Constitution - Cross Section: Mamoli

Non-Ship Builds:                                                                                              HMS Victory - Cross Section: Corel

New Shipyard                                                                                             King of the Mississippi - Steamboat: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                     Battle Station Section: Panart (Gallery)

In Dry-dock                                                                                               Chaperon - 1884 Steamer: Model Shipways  

USS Constellation: Aretesania Latina                                                       USS Cairo - 1862 Ironclad: Scratch Build 

Flying Fish: Model Shipways                                                                               

                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                            

Posted (edited)
On 5/31/2022 at 11:11 AM, Roger Pellett said:

I would think that a forge would also require a stack, both to provide draft and to exhaust fumes, smoke, and sparks.

 

21 hours ago, wefalck said:

There were at that time so-called field-forges, used by the military. They are essentially a cast-iron basin on legs with a hand-driven ventilator underneath to supply the draught. They have a half-hood in sheet over it to arrest sparks.

Roger/Eberhard,

 

I would say that there was most likely a forge on board Cairo. Among some of the artifacts recovered were blacksmith tools and an anvil. Unfortunately I have not run across any mention of a forge yet, but with all these tools on board one would think that she carried one. There was a lot of activity on the hurricane deck during their down time, hence the reason for the canopies and the crew was known to have cooked some of their meals on makeshift stoves up on the hurricane deck, so it could be a possibility that the forge was located there and washed down river when she sank. This could explain the lack of additional ventilation from below deck. Just my thoughts.

 

-Brian

Edited by mbp521

Current Builds:                                                                                                 Completed Builds:

Mississippi River Towboat Caroline N.                                                    HMB Endeavor: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                    USS Constitution - Cross Section: Mamoli

Non-Ship Builds:                                                                                              HMS Victory - Cross Section: Corel

New Shipyard                                                                                             King of the Mississippi - Steamboat: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                     Battle Station Section: Panart (Gallery)

In Dry-dock                                                                                               Chaperon - 1884 Steamer: Model Shipways  

USS Constellation: Aretesania Latina                                                       USS Cairo - 1862 Ironclad: Scratch Build 

Flying Fish: Model Shipways                                                                               

                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                            

Posted

Hi Brian, WRT locks, the magazines, shell rooms and most store rooms (especially those containing flammables and attractive provisions), the 'spirits' store (if there was one) and captain's stores rooms would all have locks also.  The sickbay (or medicines locker) may also have had a lock.

 

cheers

 

Pat

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

Posted
On 6/1/2022 at 7:22 PM, BANYAN said:

Hi Brian, WRT locks, the magazines, shell rooms and most store rooms (especially those containing flammables and attractive provisions), the 'spirits' store (if there was one) and captain's stores rooms would all have locks also.  The sickbay (or medicines locker) may also have had a lock.

Pat, Thank you for the info. It's hard to tell if doors were actually used on the City-Class gunboats for these areas since they were all (with the exception of the medical room) located in the hold. The medical room was supposedly located on the port side of the gun deck, across from the port engine in line with the junior officers quarters. These boats were designed with several hatchways spread throughout the floor of the gun deck to access the compartments from above. It is possible that some of these compartments had a passthrough to the next one and could have had doors on them. Some of the door knobs and locksets could have also come from the structures on the hurricane deck. There were at least four doors located here to access the storage rooms/showers. No telling if there were any other doors located within the structure since this section was all constructed of pine and had long rotted away before the salvage. 

 

A few years ago there was a LIDAR scan done of the boat and they put together a neat little "Fly Through" video of the hold area. It's pretty cool to check out, and will kind of give you an idea of how cramped the hold area was. 

 

 

-Brian

Current Builds:                                                                                                 Completed Builds:

Mississippi River Towboat Caroline N.                                                    HMB Endeavor: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                    USS Constitution - Cross Section: Mamoli

Non-Ship Builds:                                                                                              HMS Victory - Cross Section: Corel

New Shipyard                                                                                             King of the Mississippi - Steamboat: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                     Battle Station Section: Panart (Gallery)

In Dry-dock                                                                                               Chaperon - 1884 Steamer: Model Shipways  

USS Constellation: Aretesania Latina                                                       USS Cairo - 1862 Ironclad: Scratch Build 

Flying Fish: Model Shipways                                                                               

                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                            

Posted

Thanks for posting the Lidar scan Brian, what a great tool. The layout is quite interesting and it is amazing how much detail the lidar actually picks up.

 

I agree, almost impossible to see if doors were fitted.  if it helps, the Victoria (1855) storerooms and magazine were also in the after hold but definitely had locks (not only specified in the Contract but supported with correspondence from the build superintendent) - the sickbay was a simple cupboard (kept locked) they called the 'Medicine Chest' which held a range of medicines and 'medicinal comforts' (Brandy etc) - cannot blame them keeping that locked.  Hope that helps the thought process a little? :) 

 

cheers

 

Pat

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

Posted

Hello again everyone,

 

I have returned with another update. This time around it is not so much the progress made, but reworking areas that I found I built in error after more research and discussion.

 

The first redo, were the port and starboard #3 & #4 gun ports. I had built all 13 gun ports the same, with the piercing in between the top and bottom doors. After my trip to Vicksburg and seeing the actual doors (not the ones on the display, these are wrong as well), I discovered that these four doors were designed slightly different in that they have a solid top door and the bottom door is pierced. This was also evident on the contemporary photograph of the Cairo, I had just not noticed it before. I guess I was too busy looking at other areas and overlooked this little detail. 

 

New doors. I cheated a bit on these, with the addition of the tabs on the top doors. There isn't a lot of contact points on the small hinges to glue the doors to the boat, so I placed the tabs underneath and filed out slot in the door frame to receive the tabs. This makes them a lot more stable against accidentally knocking them off while working around them, not to mention it helps hold the doors in the proper position.

1629999113_NewPortDoors01.thumb.JPG.41af7a934e4770a4e1cc9673cd7e857e.JPG

 

1527949299_NewPortDoors02.thumb.JPG.f628937f291d3d351eadc50a0d43883f.JPG

 

122117369_NewPortDoors03.thumb.JPG.93d2fab6f77ef176488a9e9c4bc4b220.JPG

 

I did do a bit of new work just playing around with some deck furniture. I made up a few crates, to see how they would look. My plan is to populate the hurricane deck with several items. From many of the old photos you can tell that these decks were not clutter free, they were very busy.

 

The beginnings of one of the crates.

1720801064_Crates01.thumb.JPG.24c8bca2a9dbc789ac957b114ff65cfb.JPG

My first attempts all weathered up.

2141518458_Crates02.thumb.JPG.c90c7b613d59fa91b503c589e7e79822.JPG

 

2057770501_Crates03.thumb.JPG.a86861a19e22e982b3865ae199745369.JPG

 

Another redo were the hog chain posts. On the plans the posts are shown to be fairly narrow and sort and I built them according to the plans. After researching these more I found that they were more "beefier" and actually extended above the long beam that runs the length of the hurricane deck and provides a center ridge for the canopies. Not sure of what this beam is called. I didn't take any pictures of the construction of the new hog chain posts, but I constructed a square tube to slide over the existing posts and placed small shims on the smaller ones to fill in the gaps. In the next few pictures you can sort of see what they look like and how I built them. I haven't installed the caps on them yet or the hog chains themselves, I wanted to leave them off until I was finished working on the other rebuilt details of the deck.

 

The last bit of rework that I did was the skylight/hatchways and aft funnels. There has been a lot of discussion on my build about this topic lately and I finally think that I have figured out how these were situated on the deck and used. 

 

First off, I believe that I was mistaken in the placement of the aft funnels. I have to agree with Johnhoward that in the old photo of the Cairo, the port aft funnel has been moved from it's normal place on the deck and set aside and that their actual placement is outboard of the hog chain posts and just aft of the forward ones as they are drawn on Ashley's HSR plans. Where I made the mistake was that I placed the skylight outboard of the posts instead of inboard of them. My initial thoughts on this placement was that the inboard wall of the skylight lined up perfectly with the exterior wall of the boiler room. This provided the perfect place for a ladder to go, enabling access in and out of the gun deck. However, moving the skylight inboard actually works better in two ways. One, it moves the ladder to the walkway area between the boiler room and the engine room getting out from directly behind the port and starboard #4 cannons. And two, it places the skylight halfway over the boiler room which allows for a standing platform to place supplies on while hauling it up and down the ladder to the holds.

 

So I set out removing and replacing the port side deck boards in this area. (note the shims on the hog chain posts).

793147460_DeckRedo01.thumb.JPG.3f26e50cc8c277e4545aca42fc1d00e0.JPG

 

New placement of the skylight. The area on the left side of the skylight is the overlap of the boiler room and where the platform will go.

555375917_DeckRedo02.thumb.JPG.53a53f859ccaa19070cdaadd19fbd9bc.JPG

New planking going in.

1070923331_DeckRedo03.thumb.JPG.77b456016ce80ecfb190f996e4e3b54f.JPG

New planks sanded.

1245150439_DeckRedo04.thumb.JPG.d2d1b1df6a2e05d06e9a17103ed0bbaf.JPG

Varnished.

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Platform and ladder installed.

1380727284_DeckRedo06.thumb.JPG.0569d9ebd7d324f296d5e1bfc257499e.JPG

Funnel temporarily installed, deck nails added. All it needs is a bit of weathering and I should be good to go.

833967724_DeckRedo07.thumb.JPG.ab557786ad8329a3b4175bd10d9755f1.JPG

 

110273836_DeckRedo08.thumb.JPG.0160187f01e41466e61a5e01c625698a.JPG

 

Starboard side being reworked.

289651325_DeckRedo09.thumb.JPG.b790636e1cbf34b450e878e6f86aafac.JPG

Starboard side planks replaced.

1710680741_DeckRedo10.thumb.JPG.88e30b314face48ca61910aaefcdb6db.JPG

 

And both sides completed. I know that it is ugly right now, but the two areas where the deck board seams all line up will be covered with deck furniture so it will not be seen.

1178835583_DeckRedo11.thumb.JPG.b2b25439a18037461f2cdf3296f79aea.JPG

 

Now I am 100% confident that I have this right. The funnels are where they are supposed to be according to the plans and the skylight/hatchways are installed per the photographs. The interior of the skylight/hatches may not be exact, but there is no photographic or documented proof that I have been able to find of how they were built, so this interpretation seems to make the most sense.

 

Now on to finishing up the starboard side hammock racks and other deck features.

 

Thanks to all for the likes and stopping by.

 

-Brian

Current Builds:                                                                                                 Completed Builds:

Mississippi River Towboat Caroline N.                                                    HMB Endeavor: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                    USS Constitution - Cross Section: Mamoli

Non-Ship Builds:                                                                                              HMS Victory - Cross Section: Corel

New Shipyard                                                                                             King of the Mississippi - Steamboat: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                     Battle Station Section: Panart (Gallery)

In Dry-dock                                                                                               Chaperon - 1884 Steamer: Model Shipways  

USS Constellation: Aretesania Latina                                                       USS Cairo - 1862 Ironclad: Scratch Build 

Flying Fish: Model Shipways                                                                               

                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                            

Posted

Wow, nice work and really looking great Brian.  Not cheating with those tabs at all, that is a good way to secure them.

 

cheers

 

Pat

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

Posted

Love your dedication to authenticity, nice bit of rework.

Keith

 

Current Build:-

Cangarda (Steam Yacht) - Scale 1:24

 

Previous Builds:-

 

Schooner Germania (Nova) - Scale 1:36

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19848-schooner-germania-nova-by-keithaug-scale-136-1908-2011/

Schooner Altair by KeithAug - Scale 1:32 - 1931

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12515-schooner-altair-by-keithaug-scale-132-1931/?p=378702

J Class Endeavour by KeithAug - Amati - Scale 1:35 - 1989 after restoration.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10752-j-class-endeavour-by-keithaug-amati-scale-135-1989-after-restoration/?p=325029

 

Other Topics

Nautical Adventures

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13727-nautical-adventures/?p=422846

 

 

  • 4 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Hello again everyone,

 

Time for another update on the Cairo build.

 

Picking up where I left off last time, I started work on the bow guard. I made this from a strip of flexible aluminum, the same material that I made the paddlewheel from. I drilled holes in alternating sides matching the original.

1623374445_BowGuard02.thumb.JPG.86cdffc7a7af3408df717ef078e89f04.JPG

Then the strip was bent to match the contour of the bow. I was not able to determine the length of how far this guard ran back along the center keel, so I guesstimated it at about 18' which put it at approximately the length of the foredeck.

171465793_BowGuard01.thumb.JPG.ce369feae389bad2f09318f303cfcaed.JPG

 

After it was drilled and bent I simulated the rivets in it, the same as I did for the iron casement plating. I left a couple of them empty to allow for me to drill into the keel and put some of the styrene rod into the wood. This will give it a better bond than just gluing it to the keel.

1850134349_BowGuard03.thumb.JPG.8647b83c076020a8eb9fff72b58426c2.JPG

 

All that is left to do is paint it up and install it. I am holding off on installing it until later. Occasionally I pull the boat down off the bench and place the bow on the floor to work on it, so I don't want to mess up the paint on the guard.

 

Next up was construction of the ships bell. The bell was made from Milliput that I turned on the lathe. My first version was going along great, but I didn't think the process through enough. I formed a rod out of the Milliput and chucked it in the lathe. By the time I got to forming the top of the bell, the Milliput was too thin and broke off the headstock before I could finish it.

1891955238_Bell02.JPG.0f7824f71d0ae75ce4b617fe34eb598d.JPG

 

Round two, I formed the Milliput around a small dowel for reinforcement.

1004538197_Bell01.JPG.4d31a22fdc256f77535da71458559fd9.JPG

 

This one worked a lot better and I was able to get the bell shaped. However, after I got it painted up, I realized that the shape wasn't quite right and it was a tad bit too tall.

926711972_Bell03.JPG.6ee826b2b946401fae42eddc4ea21ef7.JPG

 

Round three. Turning again.

697448129_Bell04.JPG.abc1179ffef3e3205b8574a24e0511c4.JPG

I think I got it right this time.

63282463_Bell05.JPG.27983e5690e89f2d98a592d5c5c93bcf.JPG

 

Build up of the frame and scrollwork,

1258951809_Bell06.JPG.b4ae625a2c8bd65f424af49debddb028.JPG

Mounted in the frame.

2089622101_Bell07.JPG.9605cd9537ff88d9086a54844cbe2716.JPG

 

and all painted up.

1633425187_Bell08.JPG.0025f482d3b85ceb4f592a76348f590e.JPG

During the salvage when divers discovered the bell, they placed it's location in front of the wheelhouse structure. I have seen a few models, including the one in the Cairo museum where the builder has it located on top of the wheelhouse structure. If this were correct, the scaling would be off if it were indeed located here. Given that the recovered bell assembly is roughly 48” tall, including the mount, and the clearance between the wheelhouse structure roof and the centerline beam is less than 36” it doesn’t seem to fit. The bell also weighing in at 400+ lbs., seems like a heavy object to set on top of the thin roof of the wheelhouse, so I am not sure these models are correct. I am going to go with the information provided from the divers in that it should be located in front of the structure, my only piece of missing information is, was it mounted on a pedestal, or directly on the deck? I'm still researching this, so the bell will sit in the drawer until I can come up with an answer.

 

Next it was on to the aft skylights. This is another item that is not shown on any of the plans or existing models, but contemporary pictures of the City Class boats show their existence. The picture of the Cairo does not give a clear indication of them, since the ships boats cover the area of where they are located, but several other photos of the other City Class boats clearly show them to be located just above the aft two cannons. So this is what I am going with since the Cairo, Cincinnati and Mound City were all constructed at the same shipyard in Mound City and contemporary photos of the Cincinnati, St. Louis and Mound City all clearly show the skylights in place, my Cairo is going to have them located there as well.

 

Location templates in place.

1465174426_AftSkylights01.JPG.2143900468590dd57297763ef49b259d.JPG

Frames built up and temp located.

1973093354_AftSkylights02.JPG.72c25eb0b64b2fa57331dd5d97325104.JPG

I stared having a bit of an anxiety attack at this point, cutting holes in the deck again. During the cutting process, I forgot to take pictures "again". There are some pictures of other completed items that will show the finished product, and I'll point them out as I go. I still have to make the panels for them, which means that I will have to borrow the Admirals Cricut again. That will be on a future update.

 

Then it was on to finishing up the Starboard hammock rack.

146167529_StbdHammockRack01.JPG.ba400106672c4af2d76228c7bf4112fc.JPG

 

Next was the center beam that runs the length of the Hurricane Deck. I have still not been able to turn up any information on what the proper name for this beam, it seems to be pretty unique to the City Class boats. Its general purpose seems to be the center support for the canopies. On the bottom right of the next picture, you can see the completed and installed aft skylight frames.

1944362593_TopBeam01.JPG.2be9a0e04e3e016b8756c83aad206a7d.JPG

 

864857890_TopBeam02.JPG.32722c337f5bf345d7b816407788aa7e.JPG

 

Once the center beam was installed I started work on the rope stanchions that run along the outboard side of the hammock racks. I have been having trouble with my Brass Black retaining it's color. For some reason it tends to rub off with a lot of handling. So I tried a different method. I had some black plastic coated wire from a previous build that I took a torch to to melt the plastic off. When I heated the steel wire up to cherry red and cooled it in water, it left a perfect blackened patina on the wire that doesn't rub off.

123184152_RopeStanchion01.JPG.b51c57f56724169af5f0cf0fa52f52b3.JPG

After heating and cooling.

1133476692_RopeStanchion02.JPG.138465ba9d977546cab8804c4ba6a898.JPG

Stanchions in place, Port side.

1378892910_RopeStanchion03.JPG.7d69ff079e275e3cb04769bdecf4db18.JPG

Stanchions and rope installed, Starboard side.

376522696_RopeStanchion04.JPG.4c137539425507529cca7e6636bf1a8d.JPG

 

Now it was time to test a new skill. Simulating tarps. I have watched numerous YouTube videos on how to make a model tarp and properly weather it, making it look as realistic as possible. I made me up some simulated hammocks for my mockup out of Milliput.

1901146779_Hammocks01.JPG.207772999ba27e557abcc65e8b16c373.JPG

 

I then placed them in the hammock rack, covered it with some tissue, soaked the tissue down with 50/50 clear Elmer's Glue and water, let that dry and then weathered it with some pastels.

 

My first attempt.

372831207_Hammocks02.JPG.a1b7f4ea494bac972a33fb6598a2b2cb.JPG

1370340193_Hammocks03.JPG.41319f9e726b297cffbb20f8fa5234f0.JPG

 

1388309369_Hammocks04.JPG.3197e9eaffbe1052f1cf83536285fc7a.JPG

 

568457718_Hammocks07.JPG.d3bb7103f880224bcadf08224d713ae4.JPG

 

I was pretty pleased with the results, so it was on to the real thing. I liked the way the Milliput looked under the tarp on my mockup, so I made up 150 more of them.

2014932802_Hammocks05.JPG.127907fd987bbb08957a9361e9de9123.JPG

I loaded up the Starboard side racks.

114213671_Hammocks06.JPG.ccabaed714b843a286a5f92b2d9b6263.JPG

 

and started covering them with the tissue.

1970840893_Hammocks08.JPG.699b846ea6a1545e641f4669f389038d.JPG

1522160248_Hammocks09.JPG.6bde78854f162ebc8f80a9af292cb8fe.JPG

1262967324_Hammocks10.JPG.9dc66b083842575aee129828f61c48db.JPG

All of the tissue in place and dry. Now for the weathering. First few coats of weathering on. I am having trouble getting the lighting right on these pictures. For some reason they are not picking up all of the colors and tend to look a little light. I am going to play around with taking pictures at different times of the day to see if I can get better results. They actually look pretty good in real life, just not in the pictures. I do welcome any comments or tips on how to improve the look.

832234696_Hammocks11.JPG.e7eb2215d16b51172f21c558c2943245.JPG719141301_Hammocks12.JPG.6af2c85154d1d152b62784a5cfb36327.JPG

 

While I was working on the weathering. I heard a weird noise coming from under my work bench. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what it was so I started looking around and moving some of the junk I have stored under there. 

788890630_UnwantedGuest01.JPG.9eb7800b26cee302e2248acecca910cc.JPG

That was when I found a very unwanted visitor. Somehow or another this three foot rat snake found it's way into my house and made his way into my shipyard/spare bedroom. Needless to say the Admiral, along with myself were pretty freaked out. Two critters I hate most in life are snakes and spider, and to find one inches from my feet, well I didn't get much sleep that night. My first thought was to shoot it, but I really didn't want to put a hole in my floor, not to mention deafening myself discharging a firearm in the house, so I trapped it in a storage tub and set the little fellow free in the back pasture. I'm sure all he was trying to do was escape the Texas heat and soak up some of my AC. Sorry pal, not in my house. 😁

1331554873_UnwantedGuest02.JPG.98a8975acf4f0cda8f0cd57b30d70c43.JPG

 

After recuperating from the slithery house guest, it was back to work.

 

I turned my focus to the elm tree pumps used to remove water from the forward and aft holds. The City Class boats had three of these. One located on the forward deck and two mounted on the fantail, one over each pontoon forming the aft hull. None of these survived the salvage, not sure if they were lost during the recovery efforts or they just rotted away over time, but the holes where they were placed in were visible on the deck when the ship was raised and there is documentation of three octagonal holes that fit the profile of this style of pump. So I researched several pictures of these pumps and found a good version of what they could have looked like on other period ships, and modeled mine after those pictures.

 

I started off by turning a dowel into an octagon, to for the shape of the pump housing.

1055425900_Pump01.JPG.093d74512f2e352912de12417c8818bb.JPG

Then I cut them down to size, making an extra one, "just in case".

995711773_Pump02.JPG.2d03a32410f9af309d7c57ecfdc37507.JPG

Holes for the outflow pipe and the core drilled out.

1424953132_Pump03.JPG.aa9c07c845de765556268c7eeab44e9b.JPG

Outflow pipes installed and handles made.

131260217_Pump04.JPG.d7d3bd19ca2414b4f2a912d4f05d2a6e.JPG

 

1068602452_Pump05.JPG.697c5026c18565b249aaa358d24e7caf.JPG

 

920231980_Pump06.JPG.d1e23b385b470aa542ebd67ee979ad92.JPG

Completed assembly.

2035618908_Pump07.JPG.975502c7d34879aa1b71e68b9b5d1ec2.JPG

All three completed. Just needs paint.

1000594943_Pump08.JPG.ea519f37064cde6429090e8e50aa0586.JPG

Forward pump installed with my crewmember standup for reference.

1368329474_Pump09.JPG.35f4134c97e1d46a72a8c2612aefb828.JPG

Aft Starboard pump installed.

498585955_Pump10.JPG.fb7f63949e053b0ae023dae89f8f7058.JPG

Along the tops of the stanchions on the Port and Starboard sides there is a rope that runs from the stern to the second stanchion. This looks to serve as an anchor point for the canopy ropes as well as some support for the stanchions themselves. I went ahead and installed this as well. I completed the aft anchor, but left the forward side undone until I finish all the work on the Hurricane Deck. I wanted to be able to remove it if it got in the way. The eyebolt sticking through is for the rope handrails that run along the backside/frontside to keep crewmembers from falling down the casements. I had just not trimmed it off when I snapped this shot.

179323993_TopRope01.JPG.da09cc09890dd283cce735675fb079e6.JPG

2015950102_TopRope02.JPG.7001085c63d8d5930307faa5ca8d8b91.JPG

 

More deck features that I worked on were adding some boat hooks/boarding pikes. I couldn't find any pictures of these, and there are none on display in the museum, but there is mention of one of the divers coming up with one during the salvage, so I figured I would add those as well. I just carved these out of some decorative toothpicks.

753213651_Pike01.JPG.46f1127f890b9e97ec72be78118a11b8.JPG

Added a hook.

1674056957_Pike02.JPG.945b44f46e74042ee77936bb6a051e38.JPG

Painted them up.

590897099_Pike03.JPG.60b2837163073b4c45916866b5542f2b.JPG

 

Made a rack for them to stand in.

2141531618_Pike04.JPG.81bff2a78ddd5d5dee77d4004ab846de.JPG

 

252011769_Pike05.JPG.df4335328c09849b034b86fba9e91b41.JPG

 

And installed there in a location that seem like it would be the most useful. Along the wall of the wheelhouse structure, by the ships boats.

786384340_Pike06.JPG.655934017064d5276602f82c8fcd8762.JPG

 

I also made up a couple of the masts. These won't be installed until later, I was just looking for something easy to build up. I still need to make up one more of the shorter ones and finish painting these.

1663128586_Masts01.JPG.f6724b8ae2a53924c8b786150f01d9a4.JPG

 

Finally I started building up some of the crews mess kits. I just laminated a pine block with thin basswood strips, to simulated the planks, added some trim for the top and weathered them up.

852789319_MessKit04.JPG.0b7755f8664564f41edc76479acedd11.JPG

1601209855_MessKit01.JPG.210e7e633efa6aa69f234250e041dce2.JPG

921873230_MessKit02.JPG.7f484fdb5d11497378cb0c4255e03e0f.JPG

 

2058434628_MessKit03.JPG.31fa69e225761650e854c60dd3f2925c.JPG

One complete, nine more to go. I need to figure out how to make up tiny padlocks to go on them. Not sure of how I am going todo that, I'll just have to do what I can and see if I can get it right.

1365599446_MessKit05.JPG.106e870a01b426f8f261026b7721540c.JPG

One last thing. 1-2-3 blocks are heavy. If you use them, please don't drop them on you model. 😪 Thankfully it didn't dent the cannon, only chipped the paint. Some minor repairs that I will have to take care of.

774960953_Damage01.JPG.dc191088799661ed8377286894a46c2b.JPG

 

 

And finally, one last shot of how she is sitting today. I'm getting there. I might just be able to get her completed by the 160th anniversary of her sinking coming up this December.

1605058838_Overall05.JPG.5e7afe6592386340b3791d6e30b027e7.JPG

 

Thank you all for stopping by and having a look. As always, I appreciate the likes, comments and kind words.

 

-Brian

 

Edited by mbp521

Current Builds:                                                                                                 Completed Builds:

Mississippi River Towboat Caroline N.                                                    HMB Endeavor: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                    USS Constitution - Cross Section: Mamoli

Non-Ship Builds:                                                                                              HMS Victory - Cross Section: Corel

New Shipyard                                                                                             King of the Mississippi - Steamboat: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                     Battle Station Section: Panart (Gallery)

In Dry-dock                                                                                               Chaperon - 1884 Steamer: Model Shipways  

USS Constellation: Aretesania Latina                                                       USS Cairo - 1862 Ironclad: Scratch Build 

Flying Fish: Model Shipways                                                                               

                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                            

Posted

Well that was an extensive and excellent update Brian. Why did you decide not to use brass for the ships bell - not withstanding the question the bell looks excellent.

Keith

 

Current Build:-

Cangarda (Steam Yacht) - Scale 1:24

 

Previous Builds:-

 

Schooner Germania (Nova) - Scale 1:36

https://modelshipworld.com/topic/19848-schooner-germania-nova-by-keithaug-scale-136-1908-2011/

Schooner Altair by KeithAug - Scale 1:32 - 1931

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/12515-schooner-altair-by-keithaug-scale-132-1931/?p=378702

J Class Endeavour by KeithAug - Amati - Scale 1:35 - 1989 after restoration.

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/10752-j-class-endeavour-by-keithaug-amati-scale-135-1989-after-restoration/?p=325029

 

Other Topics

Nautical Adventures

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/13727-nautical-adventures/?p=422846

 

 

Posted
1 hour ago, KeithAug said:

Well that was an extensive and excellent update Brian. Why did you decide not to use brass for the ships bell - not withstanding the question the bell looks excellent.

Thank you Keith, I look at your Germania build and the metal work that you have done on that, and think to myself, maybe one day in about 100 years I'll be able to do that. 😁 

 

Actually I would love to have done the bell out of brass as I did my cannons, it's just at this time I don't have the equipment or the skills (yet) to successfully make one that way, and I didn't want to pester the guy who made my cannons for something so small. A milling machine is on my list of tools to get one day, and would have definitely come in handy on this build for several parts, unfortunately the budget hasn't provided enough fundage for one yet. For now my little cheapo mini-lathe will have to work.

 

-Brian

Current Builds:                                                                                                 Completed Builds:

Mississippi River Towboat Caroline N.                                                    HMB Endeavor: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                    USS Constitution - Cross Section: Mamoli

Non-Ship Builds:                                                                                              HMS Victory - Cross Section: Corel

New Shipyard                                                                                             King of the Mississippi - Steamboat: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                     Battle Station Section: Panart (Gallery)

In Dry-dock                                                                                               Chaperon - 1884 Steamer: Model Shipways  

USS Constellation: Aretesania Latina                                                       USS Cairo - 1862 Ironclad: Scratch Build 

Flying Fish: Model Shipways                                                                               

                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                            

Posted

Awesome! Also, I love snakes, and would happily have hand-caught and carried that fellow out for you.

 

One thought on the bell location in front of vs. atop the wheel house: in most regular steamboats I've seen, the bell was located in front of the wheelhouse on the hurricane deck. I assume this is not only because, as you said, the wheelhouse would have been too flimsy, but also because it makes running a pull rope from the wheelhouse out to the bell easy: it goes out the front, not up through the roof. This detail can be seen on many historic photos. Finally, and this thought just occurred to me, having a large bell tolling right over the pilot's head might have deafened him; better to have it out further in front?

Posted
1 hour ago, Cathead said:

Awesome! Also, I love snakes, and would happily have hand-caught and carried that fellow out for you.

 

One thought on the bell location in front of vs. atop the wheel house: in most regular steamboats I've seen, the bell was located in front of the wheelhouse on the hurricane deck. I assume this is not only because, as you said, the wheelhouse would have been too flimsy, but also because it makes running a pull rope from the wheelhouse out to the bell easy: it goes out the front, not up through the roof. This detail can be seen on many historic photos. Finally, and this thought just occurred to me, having a large bell tolling right over the pilot's head might have deafened him; better to have it out further in front?

Eric, I would have been more than willing to let you haul him off. To me, something that slithers across the ground without legs is just unnatural. When I am out walking the property, I am always carrying, just on the off chance that I run into a snake (or something worse). We have an over abundance of Copperheads, Water Moccasins, and Rattlers out here and I am not going to take the time or get close enough to check whether or not is is venomous. Shoot first, look later 😁. I don't deliberately go out in search of them, they have just as much right to be out there as I do. But if one is in my path or where I'm working (i.e. the chicken coop, barns, etc...), then it's toast.

 

As for the bell placement on the Ironclads, the "wheelhouse" in the case of these boats is the structure that covers the paddlewheel. The "pilothouse" refers to the where the ships wheel is up front. Since patrolling the Western Rivers was somewhat new territory for the U.S. military, the Brown Water Navy hired civilian pilots who were very familiar with the waterways to pilot these boats. My guess is this is why they called it the "Pilot House". A little bit different than a standard riverboat and it took me a bit to get used to the terminology differences.

 

According to the divers that salvaged the Cairo, on one of their dives, they slipped down over the forward wall of the structure and found the bell. Unfortunately they didn't mention anything about whether it was mounted on a pedestal or not, so I am not sure how to place it. This bell was used to keep time on crew watches, and would be tolled once every half hour, so it seems to me that it would have been too low to the deck to ring if it wasn't mounted a little higher up. I'm still looking into it though.

 

The bell was located in this area.

504307787_BellLocation.thumb.jpg.57151b0084f189242464605155cce1e3.jpg

 

-Brian

Current Builds:                                                                                                 Completed Builds:

Mississippi River Towboat Caroline N.                                                    HMB Endeavor: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                    USS Constitution - Cross Section: Mamoli

Non-Ship Builds:                                                                                              HMS Victory - Cross Section: Corel

New Shipyard                                                                                             King of the Mississippi - Steamboat: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                     Battle Station Section: Panart (Gallery)

In Dry-dock                                                                                               Chaperon - 1884 Steamer: Model Shipways  

USS Constellation: Aretesania Latina                                                       USS Cairo - 1862 Ironclad: Scratch Build 

Flying Fish: Model Shipways                                                                               

                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                            

Posted (edited)

Absolutely wonderful detail Brian; Cairo is really brought to life with all your added detail.   No wonder you attracted your unwanted visitor, it simply heard about your build and came to have a look for itself ;) 

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited by BANYAN

If at first you do not suceed, try, and then try again!
Current build: HMCSS Victoria (Scratch)

Next build: HMAS Vampire (3D printed resin, scratch 1:350)

Built:          Battle Station (Scratch) and HM Bark Endeavour 1768 (kit 1:64)

Posted
1 hour ago, BANYAN said:

Absolutely wonderful detail Brian; Cairo is really brought to life with all your added detail.   No wonder you attracted your unwanted visitor, it simply heard about your build and came to have a look for itself ;)

Thank you Pat for the kind words. The added little details to me are one of my favorite things to build. They really start to pull things together and add that touch of realism to the model. As for my little visitor, next time he can just peek in the window if he wants to take a look. I'll be more than happy to show it to him with a couple of panes of glass between us. 😁

 

-Brian

Current Builds:                                                                                                 Completed Builds:

Mississippi River Towboat Caroline N.                                                    HMB Endeavor: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                    USS Constitution - Cross Section: Mamoli

Non-Ship Builds:                                                                                              HMS Victory - Cross Section: Corel

New Shipyard                                                                                             King of the Mississippi - Steamboat: Artesania Latina

                                                                                                                     Battle Station Section: Panart (Gallery)

In Dry-dock                                                                                               Chaperon - 1884 Steamer: Model Shipways  

USS Constellation: Aretesania Latina                                                       USS Cairo - 1862 Ironclad: Scratch Build 

Flying Fish: Model Shipways                                                                               

                                                                                                                            

                                                                                                                            

Posted

Brian, my apologies, I completely and shamefully misinterpreted and misused terminology. Never mind.

 

The way you describe it, though, the use of pilots on these naval vessels sounds exactly the same as normal river practice, where the pilot was the de facto captain of the vessel, while the "real" captain was more of a business manager and had no say or authority over navigation.

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