Tiger 1 by marktiedens - FINISHED - Dragon - 1/35 scale

[Baker]

In case you want to hide these little painting secrets 

 

I think you can apply a winter camouflage if you wish (very easy to do) 

You still have plenty of time to decide this.

[marktiedens]

Good suggestion,but I`m not much into doing camo - don`t really know how to do it properly anyway.   The other track is now done - went a bit faster than the first one.   First picture is an unpainted section,the second is painted steel with a detail wash - looks pretty good in person.

 

 

 

Mark

[Javlin]

Liking those tracks but we need some MUD! Kevin

[marktiedens]

But, they already look like dirty steel.  I`m doing good just to get this thing put together.   Looking for some glue now that will stick PE to plastic - CA doesn`t work.  Doubt if plastic cement would work.  Epoxy is too messy.  I`m trying some fabric glue right now & will check it in the morning.   I don`t know what kind of brass this is - nothing seems to want to stick to it.

 

Mark

[Canute]

Get some Canopy Glue. It's a thick white glue that dries clear. Find it at RC airplane shops.

 

Or some of the Aleene's Tacky glues. They have several different formulations. I used the Extra Tacky to glue styrene to wood. Had to clamp that since the wood was a small structure and I think it absorbed the glue faster than I could stick the plastic to it.

[marktiedens]

Well,the fabric cement didn`t hold either - it was Dritz Fray Check.     I will try the canopy cement next.  Thanks for the info.

 

Mark

[Egilman]

1 hour ago, marktiedens said:

Well,the fabric cement didn`t hold either - it was Dritz Fray Check.     I will try the canopy cement next.  Thanks for the info.

 

Mark

Hobby Lobby has Formula 560 ot Tamiya's brand (same thing) I use it to attach the vinyl track pads to my plastic track links for the M8 HST. works great and it's invisible and they don't fall of.. and there is NOTHING that glues vinyl tracks to anything....

 

should work for PE

[Baker]

Maybe the PE parts are a little greasy. Then CA glue does not want to stick either.
degrease (water and soap) and try again with CA glue ??

 

[Canute]

Vinegar (mild acetic acid) may be better. Try not to touch the parts with bare fingers afterwards; you may transfer skin oils.

[mtaylor]

What Ken said seems to work very well.  Give them about 20 minutes or so in the vinegar.  It not only cleans but adds a bit of "tooth" to the brass.  Rinse well after pickling and let dry.  If you don't rinse, the acid will continue to work.

[marktiedens]

Thanks for all the suggestions! 

 

E.G. - I may take a little trip to Hobby Lobby.  I may stop at my local hobby shop & ask what they would recommend also - they deal with a lot of RC aircraft & vehicles.

 

I actually cleaned the parts with acetone,so I don`t think oily or greasy is the issue - may try the vinegar dip also.

 

Mark

[lmagna]

It is strange that CA will not bond PE to plastic in your case as it is pretty much universally considered the recommended method for this kind of building as far as I know. For what it is worth I have had good luck with the Bob Smith line of Insta-Cure glues, using mostly the thinner blends. I also bought a couple of bottles of VMS Flexy 5K under a recommendation from a another modeler, but have not ran out of my Bob Smith glue so have not personally used it yet. It does have the added problem though in that it is only available from Poland and even before the present day mail logjam was somewhat slow in arriving.

https://www.vms-supplies.com/flexy-5k-pe-product-overview

 

 

 

[marktiedens]

Well, I found something that works pretty good.   It`s a CA gel that is designed to glue coral down in an aquarium.  Very thick,but holds very well.  Plus,I can be assured it will hold if I stick the tank in an aquarium.    On another note,the kit is detailed enough that it even shows the seam welds,as can be seen across the bottom of this part of the tank body front.

 

 

Mark

[Egilman]

19 minutes ago, marktiedens said:

On another note,the kit is detailed enough that it even shows the seam welds,as can be seen across the bottom of this part of the tank body front.

Oh yes, all the high quality kits have that now and many of the AM manufacturers are now including weld seams for kits that don't have them...

 

Modeling has come a long way.....

[popeye the sailor]

I seem to be missing out on all the fun here.........made for good reading though.   thanks for the head's up on Testors....I'm an enamel head too.......I'd be lost if I went for some and it's all gone!  I'm lucky though........I can just hit Lou up for some more!         not to worry.....your doing a great job   

[marktiedens]

Thanks Popeye.   I was at Hobby Town yesterday & they were out of a couple of colors that they could not get replaced.   The clerk didn`t know if all the Testors paints were going away or just some of them.

 

Mark

[marktiedens]

A little more progress - the side panels,front,& top are on along with a number of small details.   Some of the details are provided in PE & plastic,but many of the PE items are microscopic & not that different from the plastic parts,so I used the plastic bits.  Just can`t work with PE stuff that small.

 

 

 

 

 

Mark

 

 

[lmagna]

On 6/16/2020 at 6:02 PM, popeye the sailor said:

I can just hit Lou up for some more!

Sorry Denis, you cleaned me out!

[lmagna]

Great progress Mark

I am not much of an armor guy normally, the only "armor" kit I ever built was an M-113 some multiple years ago, but I am enjoying following your build.

[marktiedens]

Thanks Lou.    By the way,the forum has been changed so the non-ship builds in this area no longer show up in the "most recent posts" area on the main page.  The administrators felt that all the builds going on in this sub-forum were crowding out the ship related posts in that area.   I agree with their decision since this is,after all,a ship modeling forum & this sub-forum was added as a favor.

 

Mark

[lmagna]

3 hours ago, marktiedens said:

 I agree with their decision since this is,after all,a ship modeling forum

I also agree, and I love both ships and ship history, but I still follow and enjoy many of the non-ship builds. I think of it as a guilty pleasure.

[marktiedens]

 The tank body has now been painted.    I also did a slight amount of dry brushing to simulate paint being scraped off while going through the brush showing the factory yellow under the grey.   With that I will call the tank body done - off to the turret.    The 2 holes in the front "fenders" are for an optional mounting of the spotlights,so are not used since I mounted them in the top position.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mark

[Edwardkenway]

Very nice, I really do like the Tiger,  they're a very workmanlike tank

[marktiedens]

Yes,strictly business!   Too bad it was used for evil purposes.

 

Mark 

[Baker]

Nice work.

the yellow sand color was only used from 1943 on.
before that everything had the base color panzer gray.

[Egilman]

7 hours ago, Backer said:

Nice work.

the yellow sand color was only used from 1943 on.
before that everything had the base color panzer gray.

The big problem with accurate panzer colors is the photography of the period.... there is very little in the way of photographic evidence of what they actually did...

 

RAL was the organization that decided how military vehicles were painted... Reichs-Ausshuss für Lieferbedingungen (RAL) (Reich Committee for Terms of Delivery) established all the conditions under which vehicles were accepted for delivery....

Early German prewar armor between 1927 and the middle of 1937, tanks were painted in the Buntfarbenanstrich (colorful paint pattern). The pattern used three colors: RAL Nr. 17 Erdgelb-matt (matte earth yellow), RAL Nr. 18 Braun-matt (matte brown), and RAL Nr. 28 Grün-matt (matte green). The colors were sprayed onto the vehicle in the wavy pattern, with a different pattern for each vehicle. The borders were to be either feathered, or bordered by one to three centimeter wide stripes of RAL Nr. 5 Schwarz-matt (matte black). 

 

The above was similar to what you saw from french factories on Renault FT-17's.....

 

In the middle of 1937, it was ordered to change the camouflage pattern to Dunkelbraun Nr. 45 (dark brown) and Dunkelgrau Nr. 46 (dark gray), with feathered edges. Vehicles already painted in the Buntfarbenanstrich were not to be painted in the new pattern, unless they were to be re-painted anyway.

Towards the end of 1938, it was ordered that all vehicles were to be re-painted by the individual units. At the same time, it was specified that the pattern should be a base coat of Dunkelgrau, with one-third of the vehicle covered in Dunkelbraun.

One should note that The dark brown color during this period was very very dark, making it almost impossible to distinguish the two on black-and-white photographs. Most photographs of the period appear to show the vehicles painted in a monotone pattern which is interpreted as dark grey.

 

In the middle of 1940, units stopped buying paint directly from the suppliers themselves. Instead, paint was issued directly to the units from the Reichs-Ausshuss, with Dunkelgrau being the only issued color. On 31 July 1940, to save paint, it was ordered that armor should only be painted Dunkelgrau. On 10 February 1941, the RAL colors were re-numbered, with Dunkelgrau Nr. 46 becoming Dunkelgrau RAL 7021.

 

Shortly afterwards. during March 1941, it was ordered to paint all vehicles in North Africa a base color of Gelbbraun RAL 8000 (yellow-brown), with one-third of the vehicle covered by Graugrün RAL 7008 (gray-green), with feathered edges. To save paint, the areas covered by Graugrün were not to be covered with the Gelbbraun base color. Small items should only be painted in one color. On 25 March 1942, Gelbbraun and Graugrün were replaced by Braun RAL 8020 (brown) and Grau RAL 7027 (gray), once existing paint stocks were depleted, with no change in pattern.

There are examples of vehicles in Europe in 1941 and 1942 with a two-tone pattern. The most likely explanation is that vehicles intended for North Africa, and painted at the factories, were re-routed to European units.

 

Early 1943, all vehicles were ordered to be painted in a base coat of Dunkelgelb RAL 7028 (dark yellow). Only small pieces of equipment were to retain their previous color. On top of the Dunkelgelb base coat, stripes of Rotbraun RAL 8017 (red-brown) and Olivgrün RAL 6003 (olive green) was applied.

The Rotbraun and Olivgrün paint was delivered to the units in tins, which were thinned with any available liquid. It was then applied by the maintenance section, which allowed the pattern to match the terrain. This also resulted in a wide variety of patterns, from elaborate sprayed camouflage, to patterns that look like they were smeared on with a broom and rag.

To standardize and improve camouflage patterns, in late 1944, it was ordered that all vehicles were to be painted at the factory. The pattern, Hinterhalt-Tarnung (ambush camouflage), still used a base color of Dunkelgelb, with Rotbraun and Olivgrün stripes. On top of each color, small dots of the other two were applied. This pattern was created to give the appearance of the sun shining through forest foliage.

 

In late 1944, vehicles started leaving the factories in their red oxide primer, with only sparse camouflage. Even later in 1944, more elaborate camouflage in Dunkelgelb, Rotbraun and Olivgrün began being applied at the factories over the red oxide primer. Furthermore, Dunkelgrau could be used if Dunkelgelb was unavailable. Despite this order, there has never been any evidence that Dunkelgrau was actually used.

 

In December of 1944, it was ordered that a Dunkelgrün base coat, with a hard-edge pattern of Dunkelgelb and Rotbraun should be used.

 

I lifted this info from Panzer World, it is a basic compendium of what we know about Nazi Germany's Armor colors and paint schemes....

In general, by 1942 the german army stopped using Dark Grey to paint their tanks, Dark Yellow becoming the primary base color in 1942 especially for armor going to africa. (becoming official policy in 1943) They could go back to using dark grey in late 1944, but there is no evidence that they actually did this...

 

In essence, field commanders were responsible for having their equipment painted in the specified manner, which usually descended to the tank crew to decide what they were actually going to do. (that was beneath the consideration of german officers) So Dark Grey over a base of dark yellow would locate and date place this tiger during the invasion of Russia, 1941-42....  Everywhere else being in Dark Yellows and browns....

 

And nowhere else.....

[marktiedens]

WOW - that`s a lot of info!  Thanks so much.   Looks like the only thing consistent is inconsistency.    So,with this being early production,1943,at Leningrad, would you recommend I eliminate the yellow streaks?   I`m leaning on going back over it with the grey,thinking weathering is not such a good idea without it being in a diorama of some kind.  My lack of knowledge on this subject is really showing,isn`t it. 

 

Mark  

[Egilman]

By '43 at Leningrad it would be in yellow with red-brown and green blotches or stripes. (there wasn't any Panzer Grey tanks anymore) Panzer Grey over Dark Yellow could still be found in that area in mid to late '42... (but it would be a sitting duck for soviet 76.2mm anti-tank guns in that dark color) That's the reason they made the full switch to yellow camo, the Russian winters and summers were a killer in more ways than just cold.......

[marktiedens]

Well,I guess I`m a little confused.  The box cover photos have it painted dark grey,yet in my first post it states on the box cover "initial production,Leningrad,1943.    Am I misinterpreting your info,or is the kit info incorrect?   I`m not going to re-paint it in camo,so just curious.

 

 

Mark

[Egilman]

4 hours ago, marktiedens said:

Well,I guess I`m a little confused.  The box cover photos have it painted dark grey,yet in my first post it states on the box cover "initial production,Leningrad,1943.    Am I misinterpreting your info,or is the kit info incorrect?   I`m not going to re-paint it in camo,so just curious.

 

Mark

I would lay my money on the kit info being incorrect. The only way it would be possible is the tank was in action the entire time. Initial production paint scheme as shown on the box ended sometimes in late '42 when  paint stocks ran out and all field tanks were ordered to be repainted into yellow based camo I believe in February of '43...... So it is "possible" but I believe improbable.... and, a very important point, my opinion... of course not knowing what their info was when they designed the kit, it hard to know what they based their artwork on, so I would say it is their opinion also...

 

Anyway, it is a possible paint configuration for a tank that was unavailable for repainting due to operations in early 43...