Castello Boxwood Price?

[captain_hook]

Hello,

 

I found a source of large Castello boxwood sheets here in Germany. Unfortunately I‘m not familiar with the current price. The seller gives some information:  Sheet length between 1,20m (about 4’) and 2m (about 6-7‘), 8 - 15 cm wide (3 - 6“) and 5,2 or 6,5cm height (2-3“). Price including tax would be 11,50 Euro (about 12,54 Dollar) per Kilogramm (2 pound). Is that currently a good price?

 

Thank you for any input.

Castello in 52 mm oder 65 mm Stärke / Längen zwischen 1,20 m - 2,00 m / Breiten liegen etwa bei 8 cm – 15 cm / Der Preis beträgt  11,50 € pro kg inklusive Mehrwertsteuer zuzüglich Versandkosten

[Jaager]

My math on this is kind of shaky,  I you can get this for ~$28/bf  and Gilmer is selling it for $44/bf now.

What you are describing is lumber - a board.   6 inches wide by 2 inches thick by 4 feet long.  Now, that is a unicorn.

 

My math:  51 lb/ cubic ft.  (Wood Database)   A bf (board foot) is 144 cubic inches   (12" x 12" x 1")  51 / 12 = 4.25 lb/ bf

a cubic foot = 12" x 12" x12"

$13/2 lb = $6.50/lb    $6.50 x 4.25 = $28/bf  I am thinking that this is what Chuck was paying back when he could afford to supply it.

 

If my math is correct,  Take out a loan and buy as much as you can. 

Unless this crash produces a World wide deflation, this is a deal.

My Hard Maple is ~ $8/bf  and Black Cherry is ~ $6/bf  - both grow in my region, it is bulk shipping by lumber truck/

You can probably get Acer pseudoplatanus  (Sycamore Maple) and Pear for a price in the same ball park,  so Castello does not have a monopoly over your choice of scratch build lumber.  If you have your heart set on using it, this may be a once in a lifetime deal.

[captain_hook]

Thank you, that is indeed helpful.

[Mark P]

Good Evening;

 

I agree with Jaager, even if it is not seasoned it still sounds too good to miss.

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

[Jaager]

Mark,   yes, probably even if green.  It is probably just me, but I think it would be seriously meshugga to pay the extra cost of shipping green wood from Brazil to Europe, as well as having to deal with the agricultural customs regulations for wood that could harbor pests.  Just speculation, but I assumed that it would be kiln dried before it was loaded into a container.  But you would be paying a lot for water were it indeed green wood.

 

 

 

I come at this from a very specific aspect of all this. 

This is strictly based on my philosophy and experience, an opinion piece only:

 

I favor POF at a higher end scale, but not a heroic one.   A scale of 1:48 would be ideal, detail can be had without too much faking.  Not wishing to sacrifice too much detail, but needing to be practical about display size, I opted for 1:60.  I wish my imaginary fleet to all be the same scale.  Even at 1:60 a first rate man of war is an imposing presence. 

Using Castello for framing at the larger range of scale,  My guess is that a single frigate size vessel may use about 2"x6"x48" or more of your lumber stock.  What with the curving timbers, there is a high proportion of waste.  Castello is so expensive that it would only make sense to have open framing below the wale, on both sides. 

With wood this expensive and it becoming difficult to restock,  serious tools are needed to process it.  This means that a free standing bandsaw with a blade that is stronger than mere steel is needed.  The waste from a tablesaw - multiple passes, flipping the stock is too expensive in wood lost to kerf.  The one advantage that a tablesaw has over a bandsaw (other than initial cost) is that you do not need to worship at the alter of blade replacement.

 

If you intend to use this just for planking, deck furniture, and masting,  your cost in lumber per vessel will be significantly less.  However, with boards this large, hard  and heavy,  it will still require serious shop machinery to work them.

 

Now,  if you have the proper tools, skills and time  and you load up a large supply,  you may be able to sell milled Castello to the community.  With it being a sellers market, you would stand a chance of recovering what you spend on tools, blades, and lumber in a reasonable time, and supply a sought after product.  HOWEVER, given that this would be skilled labor on your part, I doubt that you would be able to sell this at a price that sufficiently rewards your labor.

[captain_hook]

Thank you Jaager. I will order a small amount first (maybe 20 - 30 kg) to check if the source is reliable. The seller told me, that the wood is about 9 month old (after cutting down), so a 15% weight loss of drying out the wood should be expected. I have to store the wood then for some time. But it is not needed now, I would like to use it for a first POF project in about 2 years or later.

[Jolley Roger]

On 5/23/2020 at 1:12 PM, captain_hook said:

Price including tax would be 11,50 Euro (about 12,54 Dollar) per Kilogramm (2 pound).

Interesting, i'm paying the equivalent of 5,50 Euro per kilo for Cape Boxwood(Buxus Macowanii) over here.

From the local https://www.rarewoods.co.za/info/price-list-timber/

[Jaager]

Jolley,

You have the advantage of it being domestic for you.

Given similar history elsewhere, what seems to be a constant and never ending supply,  could just as easily evaporate in the future.

It looks as though you can also get Pau Marfim - which is listed as being excellent for masts and yards.

What sort of wood do you get with Mixed Indigenous?  The price looks good,  maybe scrap for jigs, if there are no gems in there?

[Jolley Roger]

10 hours ago, Jaager said:

Jolley,

You have the advantage of it being domestic for you.

Given similar history elsewhere, what seems to be a constant and never ending supply,  could just as easily evaporate in the future.

It looks as though you can also get Pau Marfim - which is listed as being excellent for masts and yards.

What sort of wood do you get with Mixed Indigenous?  The price looks good,  maybe scrap for jigs, if there are no gems in there?

Yeah, I hear you. I try and stock up as much boxwood as I can.

The horrible reality is that boxwood is used as firewood in rural areas over here! - one man's trash is another man's treasure comes to mind.

The mixed indigenous has some potential, which I would like to explore in future - White pear, which is similar in characteristics to European pear and Cape holly, similar to the other holly species

[Jaager]

Cape Holly is listed in the Wood Database.  If it is similar to ilex except for the color not being white, it will work for most anything and everything. The sample looks like the color varies, so if clear finished wood is the goal, I would use an aniline dye to get a uniform display.  You would have to look long and hard to find a wood that works better for planking.

White Pear - what I find is Pyrus calleryana in answer to the search.  The white refers to the color of the blooms.  The cultivar that I am familiar with is Bradford.  The wood is hard, tight grain, closed pore. 

It grows fast, Spring wood and Summer wood are fairly wide and are slightly different in color.  But only slightly. It is more brown than pink/red.  It has a mildly waxy feel, but glues well.  The uses and working characteristics make it a joy to use.  I think it is a bit harder than Holly,  but should be just as useful - for any part.

If what you can get is close to the above and the price is as low as I read it to be,  rent a storage locker if you need to, and buy as much as they will sell you. The same with the Boxwood and Pau Marfim.

The basic assumption behind this is that your objective is scratch building using POF.

[Jolley Roger]

22 hours ago, Jaager said:

White Pear - what I find is Pyrus calleryana in answer to the search.  The white refers to the color of the blooms.  The cultivar that I am familiar with is Bradford. 

The basic assumption behind this is that your objective is scratch building using POF.

Thank you for the the info Jaager, much appreciated!

The white pear we have is the Apodytes dimidiata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apodytes_dimidiata, still worthy of stocking up I think.

Definitely going the scratch build route.

 

PS. Apologies captian_hook for the thread drift.

[captain_hook]

I received the Castello today, had to raise my order to 40kg (minimum amount for ordering), seems that I now have enough to build shipmodels out of it for the rest of my life. The colour differs from yellow to light brown. Still have to store the wood for the next two years to get rid of all moisture. Any fungicide protection needed before storage?

 

Best Regards,

Andreas

[Jaager]

The billets do not appear to be wet enough to worry about fungus.  I have never read of chemical fungicides  being used anywhere around this.  

If the ends are not sealed, do that.  Old paint can be used, but you do not wish to contaminate any of the wood with paint spread,  you can melt a pot of candle wax and dip the ends in it.

 

Definitely sticker the billets  ~ 1/4" gap should do -  If you are OCD,  place stickers on the top layer and place a layer of heavy weight - like concrete building blocks.  Where you store them - have good air flow. 

[captain_hook]

OCD? You mean Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder? 🤗 Thank you for all the information. One of the billets will definitely become a POF swan class in the future ..

[Chuck Seiler]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 11:47 PM, Jolley Roger said:

The horrible reality is that boxwood is used as firewood in rural areas over here!

[mtaylor]

I asked this in a similar topic but no answers.....  

 

I'm just curious, is there anyplace left that will sell boxwood in a size less than a huge billet?  Even a 2X4 is too large for me to mill.  I'm not looking for a large quantity just a few sheets for my stock.   Preferably in the States since there would be less problems.

[bruce d]

Hi Mark,

A UK source, and all I can say is the service is brilliant.

https://shop.exotichardwoods.co.uk/boxwoods.html

I ordered from them yesterday online after phoning to discuss stock. When viewing online, if the item has an 'add to basket' button, it is in stock. I have visited their wonderful shop in the past and didn't want to leave...

 

HTH

Bruce

[Chuck]

They have some nice pieces.  Very expensive however.  I wonder if the ship to the usa?

[Jaager]

On 6/4/2020 at 3:22 PM, captain_hook said:

One of the billets will definitely become a POF swan class in the future

POF - the framing at higher scales seems to me to require a higher volume of wood than I would anticipate - if I did not know better from experience.  You may come to understand what I meant by "Take out a loan and buy as much as you can."  I hope that I am wrong about this in your case.  If I calculated correctly, you are already $500 invested. The loss to kerf, really hurts.  The waste from scroll cutting individual timbers can approach 50% or more.  Mid ship is a lower loss to waste.  It gets progressively more wasteful as the bow and stern are approached.  If you assemble your frames by gluing up the plank stock in a horse shoe and scroll cutting the whole frame from a pattern on that,  all bets are off on the degree of waste.  That is in the WOW! zone.

If you are not subject to compulsion about uniformity in materials used, it may not be painful for you to be ruthless.  It would save your  supply and your financial reserves if the Castello was reserved for only those regions where it will be on display, and an Acer species is used in the hidden regions. 

If you are one of the meshuga and intend to display the innards at a higher range scale, instead of planking the topside and decks completely,  boy howdy on the volume used there!

Anyway, I admire your optimism in expecting even a Swan class sloop to only cost you one billet.

[captain_hook]

@Jaager:That is only a distant wishful thinking what to do with the wood, but I appreciate your comment. 
 

Actually I have to think about the right place to store it. I have sealed the ends with some clear nitrocellulose paint first (so the black paint won’t penetrate the wood) and then some old black paint. I decided to store the wood in the basement. There is a window above for air circulation if needed, the radiator in the back is not used, only little light / UV and no known problems with humility. The billets are separated with 1/2“ stickers and I have put some weight and some boxes on top. What do you think?

[bruce d]

2 hours ago, Chuck said:

They have some nice pieces.  Very expensive however.  I wonder if the ship to the usa?

I am speaking to them early next week and will ask. Concerning the castello prices, there are a few nice surprises if you compare the different thicknesses. My 13mm thick piece of castello was less than 20% more than the 6mm equivalent. 

[Jaager]

19 minutes ago, captain_hook said:

What do you think?

I think you got it right.

[mtaylor]

13 hours ago, bruce d said:

I am speaking to them early next week and will ask. Concerning the castello prices, there are a few nice surprises if you compare the different thicknesses. My 13mm thick piece of castello was less than 20% more than the 6mm equivalent. 

 

Let us know.  I didn't realize how pricey castello has become.  But, when we need some, we need some. 

[Edwardkenway]

On 6/6/2020 at 8:57 AM, bruce d said:

Hi Mark,

A UK source, and all I can say is the service is brilliant.

https://shop.exotichardwoods.co.uk/boxwoods.html

I ordered from them yesterday online after phoning to discuss stock. When viewing online, if the item has an 'add to basket' button, it is in stock. I have visited their wonderful shop in the past and didn't want to leave...

 

HTH

Bruce

They've got some nice wood, I did not see the boxwood last time I was on their website. 

 

20 hours ago, Chuck said:

They have some nice pieces.  Very expensive however.  I wonder if the ship to the usa?

At the bottom of the number 13 piece page they have :

Castello boxwood is CITES listed and requires special licences for export. We regret that for practical reasons we are not able to supply this item to countries outside the EU.

 

[bruce d]

5 minutes ago, Edwardkenway said:

At the bottom of the number 13 piece page they have :

Castello boxwood is CITES listed and requires special licences for export. We regret that for practical reasons we are not able to supply this item to countries outside the EU.

Ahhhhh....

When we speak I will ask if they have any suggestions about North America-friendly sources. I believe they import from NA so they may have some ideas.

[bruce d]

On 6/7/2020 at 5:21 AM, mtaylor said:

Let us know. 

We spoke and sadly they cannot export to North America for the reasons Edward spotted, and he did not have any suggestions for NA sources. Bit of a dead end from your point of view, sorry it didn't work out.

On the bright side, my wood has arrived and is undergoing our strict 'cleanse-it-and-leave-it-for-two-days' process before opening.

 

[mtaylor]

No worries.  I appreciate the feedback.  The search will continue.

[Edwardkenway]

After a bit of Google surfing I could only find :

https://www.rarewoodsusa.com/

They have some boxwood but very expensive and mention knots, wormholes and minor cracks. 

(Small worm hole and slight surface feathering.

$187.55

A

32.25 × 8.062 × 2.437 in)

And I thought you guys over the pond had an easier job finding wood🤔

[mtaylor]

I saw that too, Edward.  And winced.   One would think we'd have an easier time.   It was what... a year ago and one of the wood places said they like 10 pallets and were trying to get rid of it?  

[davec]

rare woods usa sells real boxwood (buxus species).  Castello Boxwood  is awesome wood for ship modeling, but is a different species despite the name.  For ordering in the US, I'm still really happy with Gilmer Wood in Oregon, which regularly stocks Castello.  There is a fair amount listed on their site https://www.gilmerwood.com/categories/38-boards-and-blanks/products?utf8=✓&filter=Boxwood&category=  They seem to have more than just what they list on the website, and are really helpful if you call them and tell them what you are looking for.  They only sell as billets, but their wood has flat (or nearly flat) and perpendicular sides, which makes it pretty easy to work with using just a band saw and thickness sander.  I bought a 6' foot 2x4" 10 years ago, which was enough for Hannah and the Echo Cross section, and should run out as I finish the Sharpie.  I've ordered twice since then, and continue to be happy with their quality and service.

 

Dave