F4F-4 built as FM-1 Wildcat by Landlubber Mike - FINISHED - Tamiya - 1/48

[Javlin]

On 1/6/2021 at 7:00 PM, Egilman said:

the pilot doesn't have the strength to force the controls to move against the pressure stream..

Encountered something like that with water which technically so is air.I  was sailing a 17' cat with a buddy had one pontoon started to rise but not out were moving a good clip channel marker coming up heading right for it the tiller would not move it took both of us.

20 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

I spray mine in a booth that is vented out a window.

No No No!The fumes make the experience lets say more levitated You are doing great work on the build and research stuck on research on mine now but have a guy on another forum who is actually part of the team rebuilding a PRU in Canada to get me some help.The guys and you have stared a great conversation on the wing folds Lou,EG and Dan great work! Kevin

[Landlubber Mike]

4 hours ago, Lt. Biggles said:

Looking forward to seeing the process you use for building up the colours! If not too much trouble can you post pics of each stage? As I’ve not painted a plane with an airbrush before so am on the learning path! I think for mine I’ll black base and layer from there. Such fine lines of over doing, under doing, over weathering, under weathered! 

 

 

Not sure what I'm going to do yet.  Frankly, I'm a little intimidated doing it.  Not exactly an airbrush pro, and I'm unclear how many layers of paint I'll need before getting to the final stage. 

 

If I did black base, I might start with black on the whole model, then a darker gray color along the panels across the whole plane, then on the whole plane go with the base coat gray color that would be the base for the top half of the plane.  I'd stop there for the top half of the plane, and then go a lighter gray until finally hitting my base coat insignia white for the underside of the plane.  Not sure if that all makes sense, and it's a lot more rounds of painting than I'm used to doing.  

 

The alternative would be to paint the top half in the base coat gray and the bottom in insignia white, and then use washes, oils, etc. to break up the solidness of the base coats.  I'm somewhat leaning towards this option, but haven't decided just yet.  Part of me wants to take the opportunity to try out blackbasing, but it does seems a little trickier to pull off.

[Egilman]

3 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

The alternative would be to paint the top half in the base coat gray and the bottom in insignia white, and then use washes, oils, etc. to break up the solidness of the base coats.  I'm somewhat leaning towards this option, but haven't decided just yet.  Part of me wants to take the opportunity to try out blackbasing, but it does seems a little trickier to pull off.

The Wildcat doesn't have a lot of panel lines brother, at least those that are readily seeable beyond ten feet or so.... Outside of normal maintenance panels and operable parts there is no need for underlay highlighting.....

 

I would go with a nice grey primer overall with your base grey on top and base white on the bottom, the grey primer would serve to cut the brightness of the white and make the navy grey upper have the solid depth of color you need.... use panel highlighter for the parts that need it....

 

Save the labor of black basing for an aircraft that would benefit from it....

 

Just my opinion brother....

 

Nice job so far

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks!  I think you’re right.  I was looking at the model last night and the lack of panels was making it a head scratcher for me on whether the black basing was worth it.  I’ll just do the more traditional approach of base coats with panel line accents.  I think I’ll also try that technique of adding various dots of oil paints that you smear down to help break up the consistency of color.  That should do it.
 

Thanks again for helping me to work through this!

[Landlubber Mike]

I've been spending most of my time working on my 1/700 destroyer, but have been getting in some progress on the Wildcat.  Everything is painted up aside from the life raft, just need to do a few touch ups.  

 

 

I used Tamiya Insignia White for the underside from the rattle can, and Vallejo Dark Gull Gray for the top side.  I really like how the two colors are working together.  

 

Question for everyone - when I look at pictures of the Wildcat, there usually isn't such a sharp line between the colors, but more of a soft transition as if it was overspray.  Any ideas on how to achieve that?  I considered taping just outside the line and spaying a very diluted paint mixture.  I don't know if I want to re-tape, but was thinking about possibly hand brushing a very thinned gray along the line - sorta just pressing the bristles against the line like I was sponge painting.  Any ideas on which would be better?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Edwardkenway]

I think OC knows how to do a soft blend type line or EG. Something to do with blu-tak

Coming on nice Mike, I do like the grey colour!

Edited February 14, 2021 by Edwardkenway

[Egilman]

3 minutes ago, Landlubber Mike said:

when I look at pictures of the Wildcat, there usually isn't such a sharp line between the colors, but more of a soft transition as if it was overspray.  Any ideas on how to achieve that?

Look up sponge or stipple painting technique..... it's my go to without masks for rattlecan or an airbrush.....

 

Very fine closed cell foam, Autoparts store, Maguires polishing pads is fine enough, or at Michael's or Hobby Lobby, sells what is called the "Spouncer"!  Four cellulose sponges on wooden dowels.

[Egilman]

14 minutes ago, Edwardkenway said:

I think OC knows how to do a soft blend type line or EG. Something to do with blu-tak

Coming on nice Mike, I do like the grey colour!

Making card masks and using thin strips of bluetack to hold the mask a few mm's away from the surface.... Spraying rattlecan in various directions off the mask will produce a feathered edge....

 

With an airbrush you just paint it directly....

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks guys, really appreciate it.  I might try the sponge idea since there isn’t too much to do here.  I feel like every time I use the airbrush, paint gets where it shouldn’t, even when masking.  I have a couple of small sections where it looks like some of the gray got under what was like three layers of tape - not from too heavy a layer that went under the tape, but sorta like the mist floated under the tape - doh!

Edited February 14, 2021 by Landlubber Mike

[Old Collingwood]

Dont know if it might help  - but don't  they  advice  or suggest burnishing down the edge of the tape  when its in place?   also  with my method on my Mossie and Spit  with Blue Tack  work great as long as you have it stuck well to the model, and as  EG said  - the thicker the hight of the worm shape Blue Tack - the  more subtle the  camo will be.

 

OC.

[oneslim]

Duck Brand Poster Putty.  It is used for mounting posters on a wall.  Can be ordered on Amazon.  Just roll it into a rope and place it on the model.  Then add masking tape to the putty to mask the the lighter color.  It leaves no residue.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Duck-Poster-Putty-Wht-2oz/dp/B07L7W5KST/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1BWGC4QIB6IST&dchild=1&keywords=poster+putty+for+walls+removable+non+marking&qid=1613361128&sprefix=Poster+putty%2Caps%2C153&sr=8-6

 

BobW

[Egilman]

7 hours ago, oneslim said:

Duck Brand Poster Putty.  It is used for mounting posters on a wall.  Can be ordered on Amazon.  Just roll it into a rope and place it on the model.  Then add masking tape to the putty to mask the the lighter color.  It leaves no residue.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Duck-Poster-Putty-Wht-2oz/dp/B07L7W5KST/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1BWGC4QIB6IST&dchild=1&keywords=poster+putty+for+walls+removable+non+marking&qid=1613361128&sprefix=Poster+putty%2Caps%2C153&sr=8-6

 

BobW

Any of the non residue leaving stickum putty's will work..... it's kinda an art on how high to make the beads of putty, higher give a more diffuse blend of overspray, lower give a sharper line with a less diffuse edge.... Getting this right will take a bit of practice, but try it on a scrap of plastic with a straight edge piece of cardstock to get the feel of what angle to shoot the paint can at...

 

Once you get that down, doing a pattern is just applying the technique to a curved piece of card...

 

What I do is find a three-view pic of the camo pattern I wish to duplicate, say like the grey, brown, green midwar british pattern on a spit or hurricane.... I use gimp to scale it to match the model, then print three copies... In that pattern I would paint the grey overall first, then lay down your putty beads to mask off the grey pattern by cutting out all the grey patterns on the pic and attach them to the model using the putty beads in their respective positions, those areas you want to remain grey... Then spray the brown overall staying away from direct spraying at the lifted mask edge..... Next step is the same as the first, cut out the masks incorporating both the grey and brown areas and apply it to the model the same way after the brown has dried.... No need to remove the grey masks just add putty beads to the brown areas leaving the green areas uncovered.... Then spray the green areas using the same spray angles as you did for the brown areas.... When dry remove all the masks....

 

Practice first on a throwaway model...... Once you try it a few times and figure it out, it's easy to duplicate a specific pattern on a specific aircraft....

 

EG

Edited February 15, 2021 by Egilman

[Landlubber Mike]

21 hours ago, Old Collingwood said:

Dont know if it might help  - but don't  they  advice  or suggest burnishing down the edge of the tape  when its in place?   also  with my method on my Mossie and Spit  with Blue Tack  work great as long as you have it stuck well to the model, and as  EG said  - the thicker the hight of the worm shape Blue Tack - the  more subtle the  camo will be.

 

OC.

Yeah, I usually do that but it's likely user error on my part in not fully getting it down.  Very frustrating!

 

Just went back over your Spitfire log which was very helpful (and came out beautifully).  I didn't fully appreciate the blue tack idea at the time, as I thought you were just trying to avoid cutting out masking tape in the particular shapes for the camo.  Now I see it was to also get the feathering effect.

 

Since I already painted both colors, I'm going to try and feather in a transition by hand.  I don't know that I want to re-mask.  I was originally thinking of using the Vallejo gray rather than the Tamiya white, as the water based properties will be easier to work with.  Then again, maybe the Tamiya will be easier.  The white won't cover the gray as easily as the gray will cover the white, so maybe it's  better to go with the Tamiya white.  I have a bit of the Tamiya decanted so I can try it out.  I'll probably practice using both and see which has the better effect.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Landlubber Mike

[Old Collingwood]

2 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Yeah, I usually do that but it's likely user error on my part in not fully getting it down.  Very frustrating!

 

Just went back over your Spitfire log which was very helpful (and came out beautifully).  I didn't fully appreciate the blue tack idea at the time, as I thought you were just trying to avoid cutting out masking tape in the particular shapes for the camo.  Now I see it was to also get the feathering effect.

 

Since I already painted both colors, I'm going to try and feather in a transition by hand.  I don't know that I want to re-mask.  I was originally thinking of using the Vallejo gray rather than the Tamiya white, as the water based properties will be easier to work with.  Then again, maybe the Tamiya will be easier.  The white won't cover the gray as easily as the gray will cover the white, so maybe it's  better to go with the Tamiya white.  I have a bit of the Tamiya decanted so I can try it out.  I'll probably practice using both and see which has the better effect.

Glad I could be of help Mike.

 

OC.

[Egilman]

Brother, since you've already painted both colors, the foam or stipple brush is the best technique to use, blu-tack masking will only screw it up at this point..... And I"m sure your aware, dark over light works better in this situation..... also I personally think it would improve the look if you dropped the transition a bit down the sides of the fuselage, personal preference I know, but I feel like it would work better if it was a bit lower.... The sponge/stipple technique using grey over white is the easiest way to do it......

 

Nice work my friend, your going to have another museum class aircraft when done...

Edited February 16, 2021 by Egilman

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks EG for the kind words and your thoughts.  Looking at the pictures, I think you're right about going dark over light, especially to bring the line down a bit.  Speaking of the line, I didn't mean for that sharp point near the tail, so I smoothed the curve on that one. 

 

I need to finish this one as I have my eye on other kits in the stash.  Am thinking of doing the Accurate Miniatures SB2U-1 Vindicator kit as a simpler build given that there's not too much aftermarket available for it.  I was thinking of doing it as the box cover pre-war neutrality patrol colors - I guess I'm a glutton for punishment when it comes to yellow wings.  Anyway, looks like a nice and fairly straightforward kit - except for the fact that apparently the kit has parts to build it with the wings folded, though no instructions on how to do so. 🤔

 

[Egilman]

5 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Thanks EG for the kind words and your thoughts.  Looking at the pictures, I think you're right about going dark over light, especially to bring the line down a bit.  Speaking of the line, I didn't mean for that sharp point near the tail, so I smoothed the curve on that one. 

 

I need to finish this one as I have my eye on other kits in the stash.  Am thinking of doing the Accurate Miniatures SB2U-1 Vindicator kit as a simpler build given that there's not too much aftermarket available for it.  I was thinking of doing it as the box cover pre-war neutrality patrol colors - I guess I'm a glutton for punishment when it comes to yellow wings.  Anyway, looks like a nice and fairly straightforward kit - except for the fact that apparently the kit has parts to build it with the wings folded, though no instructions on how to do so. 🤔

 

That's a gorgeous kit brother, and as originally released there is no provision for folded wings... The wing parts are one piece lower and port and starboard upper wing panels.....

 

The several reviews of it out there all say no wing fold, and a couple say they wish they had aftermarket for a wing fold..... Scalemates shows no aftermarket for a wing fold in their collection of links..... 

Are the wings already split for the fold? that means they would have had to cut the inner wing spar as well....

 

Well the wings folded straightforward on the Vindicator, straight up with the tips meeting at the top over the cockpit, inverted "V" is how they looked......

Another thing about the instructions, the painting is accurate for a pre-war vindicator, the Neutrality patrol aircraft were grey over grey.... The instructions try to claim that the yellowbirds were painted that way especially for the patrol.... {chuckle} They don't always get it right....

 

Anyway it's a gorgeous model looking forward to your rendition.... And for others wishing to follow, Academy has released this kit for the last three years, but in different markings....

 

I'm there brother, whenever you get started....

[Landlubber Mike]

With my foray into plastic, I've done four Accurate Miniatures kits - well, I guess technically two were in-house creations (the F3Fs), while the F4B-4 and the P-6E were repops of some older Monogram kits.  I was looking up other kits with yellow wings and came across the AM Vindicator - I had read about the plane, but never knew what exactly it looked like.  When I found it, I was like, man this is quite the ugly bird, but kinda in an attractive way.  Plus, when I saw there was a yellow wings version available, I was in.  The knock on the kit is that a number of them had an ugly depression in the side of the rear half of the fuselage, which was a pain to fix because it was in that area that looks corrugated.  When I bought the kit from UMM-USA, I asked if the particular kit they were selling had that issue and the owner, John Vojtech, kindly included another set of fuselage halves that look perfect.  What a nice guy!

 

Thanks for the clarification on it being pre-way versus neutrality patrol.  I think I had actually copied those words from either the instructions or another build log, so good to have my terms correct!  I'll probably go with the kit markings, as they are different and I won't have to paint the cowl a separate color. Otherwise, I have the Yellow Wings decals set for this plane and can do it up in the typical fashion of other yellow wings (like the other planes I built) with the belly band, painted cowl and tail, etc.:

 

 

  

For the wing fold, the kit does not include any instructions at all, but includes the insert pieces necessary when you cut the wings in half.  Another gentleman actually went through with it, and posted pictures here:  http://www.hyperscale.com/2008/features/sb2u1cb_1.htm

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Landlubber Mike

[ccoyle]

I approve of the SB2U. I have the 1/33 scale card version from Kartonowa Kolekcja, showing an example from VS-72 aboard Wasp in Feb 1942. KK published an earlier kit of the same aircraft in pre-war markings, but I missed out on that one.

 

[Egilman]

7 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

For the wing fold, the kit does not include any instructions at all, but includes the insert pieces necessary when you cut the wings in half.  Another gentleman actually went through with it, and posted pictures here:

Well then it's a not well known feature of the kit apparently, looks pretty straightforward, the wings break right on the dihedral chine and rotate straight up.... his method of supporting the outer wing panels without putting a strain on the hinge mechanism is very well done and should be easily repeatable....

 

Gonna be another home run.....

[Landlubber Mike]

2 hours ago, ccoyle said:

I approve of the SB2U. I have the 1/33 scale card version from Kartonowa Kolekcja, showing an example from VS-72 aboard Wasp in Feb 1942. KK published an earlier kit of the same aircraft in pre-war markings, but I missed out on that one.

 

 

Did you start this one?  I can't believe how well these planes model in card with all the compound curves.

[Landlubber Mike]

1 hour ago, Egilman said:

Well then it's a not well known feature of the kit apparently, looks pretty straightforward, the wings break right on the dihedral chine and rotate straight up.... his method of supporting the outer wing panels without putting a strain on the hinge mechanism is very well done and should be easily repeatable....

 

Gonna be another home run.....

 

Yeah, it's sort of a hidden feature I suppose.  The wing inset pieces are there, but no instructions for them.  Doesn't look too difficult to implement, but certainly a little trickier than putting in the drop in wing sections from Wolfpack that I'm using on the Wildcat.  I'm glad I did the Wolfpack first as it's given me some experience on how the wing folds operated.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Landlubber Mike

[ccoyle]

4 hours ago, Landlubber Mike said:

Did you start this one?

 

Nope. This one isn't even on my radar yet, but I like having it my collection so that I can take it out once in a while and flip through the pages. ☺️  Also, I prefer my warbirds with enclosed cockpits to have plastic canopies available for them, and to the best of my knowledge no one has offered one yet for this kit. Right now I'n slowly gring through my 2-for-1 PWS-10 build, coupled with my canoe project. Here is a link to a great build of the SB2U pre-war version.

[Landlubber Mike]

Wow, that's stunning!  Again, I'm amazed you guys can do planes in card - really cool!

[popeye the sailor]

really nice progress Mike  

[Landlubber Mike]

This model has languished a bit - in part because I wanted to finish up other models, but also because of modeler paralysis in planning out the various steps with all the aftermarket and general modifications to the build.  Hasn't helped that the Aires aftermarket set isn't plug and play, but has required quite a bit of finessing.  Also, there's a lot of tricky things to plan around, including the US insignia on the side fuselage coming up on the panels covering the life raft, how to attach the folded wings to the stubs, etc.

 

But, I did dust it off the other day and glued the engine, cowl, and landing gear (propeller is just on to test everything out).  Took me hours of sanding, cutting, test fitting, rinse and repeat to get all that to work with the kit parts.  In the end, it's looking not too bad.  I have some touchups I need to do, then will clear for decals and weathering.   I also need to soften the line between the Dark Gull Gray and Insignia White - that has me a little nervous, but I just need to get it done and move on.

 

  

 

Thanks for looking in!

[Landlubber Mike]

While waiting on paint to dry on other projects, I picked this one back up.  I was stuck for a while in trying to figure out how to soften the demarcation between the gull gray and the insignia white.  Eventually I tried using blue tack and spraying diluted paint at an angle, but I wasn't too satisfied with how that came out.  So, I tried the sponge technique of almost dry brushing using a tiny bit of sponge in between a pair of tweezers, and blotted it down along the long.  That worked much better, and so after some touch ups, I sprayed a gloss clear coat and then applied the decals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The decals are from the Wolfpack wing fold set, and they went down really nicely with really no trace of silvering.  I did goof and put the propeller decals on the wrong side of the propeller, so had to use the kit decals.  The kit decals had a very thick carrier film, which took a while to settle down with Micro Set and Micro Sol.  I'm glad I had the Wolfpack decals as I have a feeling it would have been a real pain to try and get the larger decals down if I was stuck with the kit decals.

 

One thing I'm kicking myself on is that I cut out the cowl panel that had the cat insignia for VC-12.  Pretty funny insignia, though not particularly family friendly.  I was originally thinking about making a diorama out of this one and having a mechanic removing one of the panels, but now now I'm leaning towards just finishing it and moving on to something else.  So, I might see if I can attach at least one of the panels to the model.  It might take a little creativity as the holes I cut are a touch big, so I might need a filler strip, etc.  Hopefully something works out.

 

 

 

Next up is another gloss coat, then I will work on panel lines, shading, breaking up the solid colors, etc.  I don't think I'll weather this all that much, but might dirty it up a touch.  Since it was on a carrier, these planes were generally kept in pretty nice condition.

 

Thanks for looking in!

[Egilman]

Well, I imagine your going to put it on a deck grey hanger deck undergoing some sort of maintenance.... When they had those covers off, they were usually placed on the deck, face up, behind the gear under the fuselage......

 

Nice to see you working on her again my friend....

 

 

[Landlubber Mike]

4 hours ago, Egilman said:

Well, I imagine your going to put it on a deck grey hanger deck undergoing some sort of maintenance.... When they had those covers off, they were usually placed on the deck, face up, behind the gear under the fuselage......

 

Nice to see you working on her again my friend....

 

 

Thanks!  I was thinking of that but there aren't many pictures out there, and of course most are of the flight deck.  

 

 

 

USS Lexington:

 

 

 

 

Edit:  Just found a colorized version:

 

 

This is said to be the hangar deck of the USS Long Island, but the decking looks like the flight deck type of deck:

 

 

 Yorktown:

 

 

 

I did find this from carrier base and background from Coastal Kits but I think it's for a modern day carrier: 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Landlubber Mike

[Landlubber Mike]

Interesting post on US Navy hangar deck paint - looks like they used to be painted white, but then paint was stripped to lessen issues from fires:

 

http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5363

 

Some time ago, I asked for info on what color to paint the hangar
decks on my USN aircraft carrier ship models. Several of you responded,
and said that the appropriate color was flat white.
I replied the Samuel Eliot Morrison's History of U.S. Naval Operations
in WWII indicated that all USN ships were ordered to remove interior
paint in the wake of the shipboard fires during the Battle of Savo Island.
Again, I was told that hangar decks throughout WWII were white.
In the book 1942: The Year That Tried Men's Souls, author Winston
Groom writes on pp. 275-276, that the navy ordered paint stripped from
all interior compartments, due to its contribution to spreading onboard
fires from battle damage.
Also, the USS Enterprise (CV-6) Plan of the Day for 29 August, 1942
states:
"From an analysis of the fire we had below on the 24th (Aug 1942), it
is apparent that we were greatly aided in fighting the fire and the fire did
not spread from the original damaged areas due to the fact that nearly all
paint had been removed from the compartments affected. The many laborious
hours that the crew has spent scraping paint paid real dividends in that emergency.
There is still a considerable amount of paint to be removed from compartments
in which there is a possibility of fire as the result of bomb or shell damage in an
engagement. It appears that the next two weeks will offer an excellent opportunity
to finish the job, and we should by all means make the most of it in order to place
the ship in the best possible condition for future engagements. It is desired that
those divisions which do not have spaces in the damaged area start again today
on the paint removal project, being guided by the priority lists which have been
prepared by Heads of Departments. ...
Divisions having spaces and areas exposed to the weather should also take
this opportunity to clean up and touch up rust and corrosion spots and in general
look to the preservation of the ship."
(signed) W.F. Boone, Commander, U.S. Navy, Executive Officer

Based on this info, I believe that after August 1942, the proper color for a
USN hangar deck should be bare metal. I have found no info to indicate that
the USN had any non-flammable paint to use in hangar decks, nor that hangar
decks were specifically exempted from paint removal - especially as hangar
decks were the principal areas damaged by enemy bombs, and were very
prone to fires, due to the aircraft stored there.