A fully Rigged Model Shipways Confederacy.......

[yvesvidal]

Folks,

 

While surfing the Web, I stumbled against a project which is dear to my heart: a fully rigged Confederacy!

 

Apparently, a very skilled modeler from North Carolina, Dave, has built the model as an Admiralty Model and added a full rigging with all masts and yards. I have looked at all the models built by Dave and am truly impressed and in awe with the quality of his models and the number of ships that he built.

 

 

I invite you to look at more of his work under http://www.davesconfederacy.blogspot.com/

 

A few full shots of the Confederacy in all its glory:

 

 

 

 

Fantastic work. Congratulations Dave.

 

Yves

 

PS: By the way, if anybody can give me more information about Dave and where he lives, I'd love to meet him. His Blog does not provide any clues.

Edited June 22, 2013 by yvesvidal

[realworkingsailor]

I think I've seen those pics before, but just the same...Whoa dang! She looks very impressive

 

Andy

[Jaxboat]

Yves

Thanks for sending the link. What a beauty! Hope Chuck does a rigging package although the man has a lot on his plate these days.

 

One question. Should this vessel really be called "USS"? I mean was the Bonhomme Richard or the Alliance called USS? I know it is picky but I really would like to hear some opinions

Jaxboat

Edited June 21, 2013 by Jaxboat

[realworkingsailor]

From what I've heard, the "USS" designation didn't come into being until well into the 19th century. Correctly, I don't think she should have any designation beyond "Continental Frigate"

 

Andy

[WackoWolf]

It wasn't called the USS.

[Jaxboat]

Thanks for the comments, guys. I am thinking the USS designation came into being with the offical founding of the US Navy in the mid 1790s when congress funded the first six frigates.

Best

Jaxboat

[WackoWolf]

 

After the American War for Independence, Congress sold the surviving ships of the Continental Navy and released the seamen and officers. The Constitution of the United States, ratified in 1789, empowered Congress "to provide and maintain a navy." Acting on this authority, Congress ordered the construction and manning of six frigates in 1794, and the War Department administered naval affairs from that year until Congress established the Department of the Navy on 30 April 1798.

 

It was almost 1800 before it was the US Navy. That is why the Confederacy wasn't named USS, if I remember right it was the UFC Confederacy ( I probably got the UFC wrong, and I know someone will correct me on that).

[freewheelinguy]

http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq63-1.htm

 

 

nto the early years of the 20th century there was no fixed form for Navy ship prefixes. Ships were rather haphazardly identified, in correspondence or documents, by their naval type (U.S. Frigate ____), their rig (United States Barque ____), or their function (United States Flag-Ship ______). They might also identify themselves as "the Frigate _____," or, simply, "Ship ______." The term "United States Ship," abbreviated "USS," is seen as early as the late 1790s; it was in frequent, but far from exclusive, use by the last half of the 19th century.

 

 

[mtaylor]

The Navy was disbanded after the American Revolution as Congress didn't see a need to have one.  Funny thing is, they left the charter for the Marines intact as they were to be stationed on certain merchant ships.  (Trivia... the USMC is thus called the "Senior Service")  A few years later, they realized their folly and chartered a Navy. 

 

I think the designation for the Confederacy was just the Confederacy, though Hahn refers to it as "Continental Frigate Confederacy" in his book.  At that point, there really may not have been a designation as Len and Andy have pointed out. 

[WackoWolf]

I think you are right in what you said. On the name on the ones I seen built it just say Confederacy, This could almost be a pissing contest as to what it was call. Thank you for posting what you said. So far there are only two that I know of that are fully rig all the rest just have the stumps for the mast.

[mtaylor]

Joe,

 

As I recall, there's no rigging plan for the Confederacy.  The Brits only took off her lines.  Any drawings from the US have either long since been lost or were destroyed during the War of 1812 when they burned Washington D.C. 

[russ]

Mark:

There is a list of spar dimensions from the British. Chapelle took those dimensions and produced a spar and sail plan for the Confederacy. On that plan, he lists the spar dimensions from the British.

 

Russ

[augie]

The Navy was disbanded after the American Revolution as Congress didn't see a need to have one.  Funny thing is, they left the charter for the Marines intact as they were to be stationed on certain merchant ships.  (Trivia... the USMC is thus called the "Senior Service")  A few years later, they realized their folly and chartered a Navy. 

 

I think the designation for the Confederacy was just the Confederacy, though Hahn refers to it as "Continental Frigate Confederacy" in his book.  At that point, there really may not have been a designation as Len and Andy have pointed out. 

I read of this disbanding years ago.  As I recall there was an idea to create gunboat 'kits' and have them deployed at strategic locations along the coast.  Then, if one spotted an Armada coming over the horizon, you would just need to break out the hammer and set to work.  Committees sure come up with some great ideas.

[Trussben]

Wow, she looks really impressive with the full rig, hmmmmm   Might add 6 months to the build though.

 

ben

[WackoWolf]

   The Crocker Brothers ( I know I spell the name wrong )plans have a rigging/sale plan sheet, I have the plans. I bought them before "Pearl Book Company" went out of business. Chuck also has a set. The cover of the 1991 "ModelShipwy" was of the "Confederacy" done buy a member of my club in CT. He use these plans also. Now as far as are they the real plans that can be argue back and forth, who knows for sure ( since I don't ). And I have found different things wrong with them when you put them up against what the NMM has. But the point I was making is that I now only know of two people who have rig her. Sorry if I said it wrong in the other post.

[russ]

William Crothers is the man's name who drew that other set of plans.

 

Russ

[Chuck]

That rigging plan has some serious errors.  The masts and spar are Ok but Crothers arbitrarily added rails and other belaying points all over the place.  The most obvious being the rail at the forecastle bow.  I would take it with a serious grain of salt.  Dave used it for the masts and spars but we talked about the rigging while he was doing it.  There were plenty of weird things going on with the hull construction too if you examine the plans closely.  I dont like to speak badly of others plans and research but a great deal of what he conjectured on those those plans is clearly a "hail-Mary" guess.

 

Chuck

[mtaylor]

Hmm... I guess I stand corrected on the rigging plan.  Question is, who's is correct?  Where did Chappelle and the others get their info?  I curious.....

[WackoWolf]

Mark,

 

    Now that is the 64,000.00 question. Chuck knows Justin from my club in CT, he was the one who rig her in 91 but I do know he didn't do it all from those plans because of problems like Chuck had said. Also like I said they didn't match with what the NMM has either, and there is no framing plan anywhere either. I have been working on this ship in SoildWorks for well over a year and this is what I have done so far.

Edited June 25, 2013 by WackoWolf

[realworkingsailor]

Personnally I don't think she would have varied too much from contemporary British practice. I can't see that in the relatively short period of time between the start of the American revolution and her construction, there would have been a major sea-change in ship building and rigging practices in American yards. Certainly her overall design and size indicated that American ship builders and designers where already beginning to think slightly differently than the British establishment. But how far could it really have gotten in the short 3 or 4 year time scale?

 

Andy

[WackoWolf]

Andy,

 

    I agree with what you have said, but I do think that they were more towards the English way of building ships at that time but were starting to change at that time period. But this also can be argue back and forth all day long. You and me are both old ship builders of different types of ships. I first started off working on subs, 688 and tridents and then later the first two Sea Wolfs, later on after I got out of the IT trade because of job cut backs I went back into the shipyard trades but then it was fuel barges and tugs and then got move to the repair yard and work on almost everything but Battleships ( they were long gone by that time). The point I am getting at is things were changing almost everyday as to how they were made. Without an exact set of the plans for the Confederacy no one really knows for sure. Everyone seem to do this ship to the way they though it was done, so we will never know for sure one way or another. Now once Time Travel is made only then we maybe will know LOL.

  But do understand I agree with what you said 100%, but I am sure not everyone will agree with you and me LOL.

 

Thank you very much.

 

Oh before I forget ( which I did ) Thank you very much Russ for telling me and the rest the right name and spelling.

Edited June 25, 2013 by WackoWolf

[realworkingsailor]

Exactly. Before the revolution, some British navy ships where built in American yards, so it stands to reason that the master builders were trained by the British system and standards. With the exigencies of war, they would have simply fallen back on what they knew they could do well, and were trained to do, in order to expedite the construction process.

 

It's not until the later frigates of the 1790s that the obvious changes become apparent, both in rig and construction. When American designers and builders had the time to experiment with, and perfect, new ways of doing things. I think it is safe to say, that the results of their efforts caught the British completely off guard 20 years later.

 

Andy

[Trussben]

Hey Wacko,

 

That's some impressive 3D modeling you have going on there.

 

Ben

[WackoWolf]

Thank You very much. Still working on it. Hopefully soon I will start on it. Still a ways to go yet though.

[SawdustDave]

Just running across this discussion on my Confederacy. Been so long ago now..... I really appreciate the kind comments.

Be assured, I do not consider myself a serious historian of this wonderful art....just an old guy who fell in love with it and really enjoys the challenge.

[WackoWolf]

She is a Beautiful ship, didn't have a good history. I fell in love with her the first time I seen a model of her at Bob Hunt open house some years back, and then Chuck model and of course Rusty's when he brought his to the show in Ct. And there is the one that was built by my good friend Ron from the club I belong to in CT. The bigger the scale the more Beautiful she looks (just my option).

[yvesvidal]

Hello Dave,

 

I am glad that you did chime in at the end. I guess the Dave in NC and SawDustDave are one and the same person.

I still hope to be able to stop by one day and admire your collection of beautiful period ships.

 

Thanks

Yves (Raleigh, NC)

[SawdustDave]

Very interesting chat.....Allow me to clear up from my end.

I was allowed to build my Confederacy along with Chuck, as he developed the kit. Since all of my ships were built for my grand kids to enjoy long after I am gone, they all followed my building logs very carefully from over a thousand miles away. When I tried to explain that this beautiful ship would not have masts like all the others, it just didn't go over very well. So I told Chuck I would have to rig her best I could....fully understanding that some of the belaying would our best guess.

Turned out to be their favorite ship....creating another problem between two of the boys (both want to claim rights to it).

So now I am considering another build.....

Chuck's Winchelsea would be my choice but it isn't ready for prime time.

As for "USS".... Thanks for the info.

Edited March 14, 2014 by SawdustDave

[SawdustDave]

Decided to build The Mayflower. Using Chuck's plan sheets (thank's Chuck). First planking of the hull completed. I am leaning toward Ilhan Gokcay's version.....enjoying his wonderful build log.

[mtaylor]

SawdustDave,  will you be doing a build log?  I hope...