HMS Bounty by Trond - Billing Boats - 1:50

[Gregory]

Nice work..

FWIW, timberheads are extended frames,  Much more robust for belaying than cleats would be.

Edited March 23, 2022 by Gregory

[Trond]

The cleaves are in place and started on the staires. Unfortunate the work I did in the begining was not good to work with.

 

So I sanded it down with a power tool. One wrong move and .....

 

It went ok and I installed the stairs. Now I need to paint and make the frame around on deck.

 

 

 

 

[Trond]

Made the frame to the different hatches and gratings.

Been looking in different book and youtube and it seams that I dont have the correct tool (minitur table saw) to make the gratings.

So I need to buy them. The extra kit that I bough to the Bounty have some brass circular windows, I will glue them on the next couple of days.

 

[LyleK1]

1 hour ago, Trond said:

Made the frame to the different hatches and gratings.

Been looking in different book and youtube and it seams that I dont have the correct tool (minitur table saw) to make the gratings.

So I need to buy them. 

 

 

Try Syren Model Ship Company for the grating kits… good stuff!

[Trond]

Though of maybe put some varnish on before glueuning to deck. Tried it out, but turned out get an outside grayish look, not good.

So had to paint them over again brown.

 

[allanyed]

Hi Trond, 

 

I second Lyle's comment on the gratings.  If you cannot make your own, Syren is the best choice for accurate high quality gratings.   He offers 1:64 and 1:48 so the latter should be great for your scale of 1:50.  He has them with  camber and the battens  run fore and aft and the ledges athwartships as would be on the actual ship.   

 

In your photo above, what are the brass rings on the coamings and head ledges?    The coamings are no more than 6 inches high, maybe less depending on which deck, so I can't figure out what these would be.  

 

Thanks

 

Allan

 

[Trond]

17 hours ago, allanyed said:

Hi Trond, 

 

I second Lyle's comment on the gratings.  If you cannot make your own, Syren is the best choice for accurate high quality gratings.   He offers 1:64 and 1:48 so the latter should be great for your scale of 1:50.  He has them with  camber and the battens  run fore and aft and the ledges athwartships as would be on the actual ship.   

 

In your photo above, what are the brass rings on the coamings and head ledges?    The coamings are no more than 6 inches high, maybe less depending on which deck, so I can't figure out what these would be.  

 

Thanks

 

Allan

 

 

On my model they are suppose to be "windows", don't know the correct word. I guess they are for letting in light.

As you see they are to big with regard to scale. I saw i too, but then it was to late.

 

I must admit that there are some times that I cut some corners. The hole ship is so way of scale in all parts that I get very frustrated sometimes. The drawing/instructions are so bad, so I try to use the Bounty book as much as possible and scratch build, since all pieces in the kit is way off.

 

 

[Trond]

Here are the grating I bought. Must admit again that I forgot about scale when I bought it and saw it when I buildt them. I'm going to use the large one on the deck and will do some experiment with the small as  hatch for the staircase.

 

 

 

[allanyed]

Trond,

I cannot find any contemporary plan, model, painting or other that indicates there are tiny windows or ports of any kind in any coaming.    Of course port holes are seen in deck houses, but I would be interested to see if anyone here at MSW has seen such an opening in a hatch coaming.

It may be too late to fix unless you make new coamings and head ledges, but at least it something to watch out for in the future.   It is always good to check out every detail from a kit against contemporary information the same as if it was a scratch build.   

Ha en flott dag!

Allan

 

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by allanyed

[Trond]

12 hours ago, allanyed said:

Trond,

I cannot find any contemporary plan, model, painting or other that indicates there are tiny windows or ports of any kind in any coaming.  I may be wrong, but it may be from someone's fantasy when they drew up the kit.  Actually,  I do not recall ever seeing these on any ship in the 18th century or earlier.  Of course port holes are seen in deck houses, but I would be interested to see if anyone here at MSW has seen such an opening in a hatch coaming.

It may be too late to fix unless you make new coamings and head ledges, but at least it something to watch out for in the future.   It is always good to check out every detail from a kit against contemporary information the same as if it was a scratch build.   

Ha en flott dag!

Allan

 

 

 

 

Sorry for a bad explanation. I'll try again.

This first two picture is from the Bounty book where you can see circular holes/"windows" and the last two are from instruction manual and picture on the front of the box.

 

 

When I bought the kit I also bought the extra kit with canons, block, anchor etc. This was in the begining of 1990 and fortunately the world has move forward, including quality of model ships. In the extra kit these brass "rings/windows" was part of it.

I do agree Alan that after you mentioned it I haven't seen other models with this "windows"

 

Looking at it in perspective of what the intention of the Bounty was, moving plants. On could argue that they would be holes for air circulation. In the Bounty book there is two version of the ship, one before the assigment without canons and "windows" and one with canons and "windows".

At least that is my interpretation of haveing two sets of deck plans for one ship.

 

Anyone other thoughts?

 

[allanyed]

Thanks Trond!!    I was curious about this as I was not sure if it was from a contemporary source or something modern and not applicable to the actual  ship when she sailed in 1787.    It is a very interesting item that I cannot find on any contemporary model or drawing so far that shows these ports. .  Do you or does anyone following this build know if this was something contemporary?   

 

Thank you

 

Allan

[AJohnson]

14 hours ago, allanyed said:

Trond,

I cannot find any contemporary plan, model, painting or other that indicates there are tiny windows or ports of any kind in any coaming.  I may be wrong, but it may be from someone's fantasy when they drew up the kit.  Actually,  I do not recall ever seeing these on any ship in the 18th century or earlier.  Of course port holes are seen in deck houses, but I would be interested to see if anyone here at MSW has seen such an opening in a hatch coaming.

It may be too late to fix unless you make new coamings and head ledges, but at least it something to watch out for in the future.   It is always good to check out every detail from a kit against contemporary information the same as if it was a scratch build.   

Ha en flott dag!

Allan

 

 

 

They were an actual feature on HMAV Bounty (see extract from the Admiralty plans)  and they are on my Bounty by Caldercraft.

 

As they are drawn in RED along with the shelves for all the plant pots we can safely assume they were added for a reason when the RN purchased "Bethia" for her transformation into "Bounty" and her voyage to collect Breadfruit plants, the air scuttles above the great cabin being another addition.  I assume the botanists advising the Admiralty suggested that adequate ventilation and water/light (the additional "skylights" Bligh mentions in his log and the lead lined cabin for the plants) were needed to successfully transport live plants instead of seeds?

So Trond is right to have these holes, but as to if they were lined with brass/bronze, open or glazed I have no idea.  Or how if open they were made water tight in stormy weather; perhaps battened tarpaulins?

Great progress Trond, keep at it! 👏

 

[DaveBaxt]

If indeed these holes exsisted there would probably have been a means of closing them off in bad weather as would the open. If not they would be burnt out working those bilge pumps. Just a thought but correct me if I am wrong..

[Trond]

20 minutes ago, DaveBaxt said:

If indeed these holes exsisted there would probably have been a means of closing them off in bad weather as would the open. If not they would be burnt out working those bilge pumps. Just a thought but correct me if I am wrong..

I would agree, but I think I'm going to leave that detail out 😉

[allanyed]

Andrew,

Many thanks for posting that extract from the plans.  I had looked at drawing ZAZ6664 at RMG but it only shows the cross section of the coamings, thus missing these ports.   I just now dug a little deeper and see ZAZ6665 that shows the ports.  I scaled it and the coamings appear to be about 14" high so plenty of room to accommodate the small ports.   Very interesting!!!

Thanks again

Allan

[Trond]

Finished gratings aft and on the hatches for the stair. It didn't turn out to bad. I know it is not to scale, but it is defiantly a learnig process.

Now I only need to finish the forward grating.

 

The picture is not very good I must admit, but will take som new ones that give å better perspective on how it look

[Trond]

Here is a better picture on how it looks.

 

[Trond]

Onto to anchor winch.

Here is the drawing from th Bount book.

 

Here is the part from the kit

 

6 sides, not 8 which is on the drawing and the sides are bad.

So I made my own according to the book.

 

They turn out pretty good. There is a lot of forth and back in the book trying to get som dimention.

 

And here is the commericent

 

OK, now it was time for making the aksel and since I have a lath I useing that.

 

 

Looks good, but I mis calculated the angel and I will need to make new piece tomorrow

 

[Trond]

If it is the one than something else pops up. I was trilling to my new side support and forgot what I drilled in, playwood. So i got some damage that I had to repare.

 Then I remebered last knights mistake with angel and made some new ones.

 

 

Not finished, but had to try it out.

 

and some paint

 

 

Does anyone have a good idea how to make 8 sided instead of round.

I doing some measurment, but not very good. Need to think on how to make does 8 sides...

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Trond

[allanyed]

Start with square stock the taper to each end them mark out edges of each face of the octagon then plane or chisel or otherwise remove the material until you have 8 faces that are concentric.  I like to use a machined vee block for this kind of thing.   If you do not have one you can make one of wood or find a local machine shop and ask them to machine one.  The local shop owners years back did it in scrap aluminum  bar they had laying around for donuts and coffee.

 

Allan

Edited April 11, 2022 by allanyed

[Trond]

8 hours ago, allanyed said:

Start with square stock the taper to each end them mark out edges of each face of the octagon then plane or chisel or otherwise remove the material until you have 8 faces that are concentric.  I like to use a machined vee block for this kind of thing.   If you do not have one you can make one of wood or find a local machine shop and ask them to machine one.  The local shop owners years back did it in scrap aluminum  bar they had laying around for donuts and coffee.

 

Allan

Sorry Allan, I didn't explain it good enough. 

 

I've already made 2 of these in the lathe to get the correct diameter, angel and lenght. My challange is to make the section in yellow from round to octagon. 

[allanyed]

I would go with files and/or chisels, but very slow and easy but hopefully some member has a full proof method to be sure every face is exactly the same and concentric.

[Trond]

Agree Allan, I need more tools 😁, I love quality tools.

So today I brough my wife and we did some shoping, including dropping into my local specailis shop for wood work and bought some tool.

I'm really thankful to have a wife that understands hobbies require tools.

 

 Veritas miniature tool serie.

I'we always said that good tools are at least half the job.

So I started making some strips with correct with of the 8 sides, one for top and one for bottom.

 

Than the lines.

 

And now my new tools, worked realy nice. Just needed some adjusting.

 

 

Her is  the partially finished part with holes. I know the holes should be square, but I have no way of make so small square holes.

Now I need to make the center piece and the ends, but looking good so far

[LyleK1]

Or you could glue flats to it... they would need to be cut to fit.

[Gregory]

16 hours ago, Trond said:

I have no way of make so small square holes.

Try taking a small nail and hammering it square..  Pushing it into a round hole will square the hole.

[Keith Black]

Or use a square jewelers file. 

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  'Love that low-angle plane.  Its one of my favorite tools.

[Trond]

I have tried small squere nail and filed the nail with sharp endges, but didn't work. I didn't want to push to hard and split the wood. 

And the jewlers file I have is a little to big. Need to get some very tiny files.

Now I need to make the iron fitting on each side for the axel

 

Question is should i paint the hole anchor handling brown?

Edited April 13, 2022 by Trond

[Snug Harbor Johnny]

  Trond,  I think I have an approach to squaring your holes that may work.  Mulling over the problem today, I chanced to recall using a mortising drill for furniture making.  Yes, it is a way to 'drill' a square hole - in that there is a long square housing with side openings that has a wood auger inside.  When used with a drill press on a piece of wood to get a mortice (for a tenon, of course) the auger cuts a round hole and the sharp, square corners of the holder follow and cut square corners.  The chips from the round hole come up the flutes of the auger to come out the open sides of the square holder, and the chips sliced out of the corners just come up with everything else.

 

  Now there is no such tool small enough for model applications, BUT there are miniature carvers made for bird and duck wood carving.  I have such a set I used for old time gun smithing (got them from Woodcraft).  One of the is a tiny square 'v' carver.  The tools come both straight and with bent ends.  The 'v' tool will cut a square corner into the round hole already drilled.  One can judge 'by eye' where to make the other three chip cuts to square the other corners, but I suppose they could be marked with a pencil dot for a guide.  The tiny chips that come out of the corners can either be blown out or 'winkled' out with a pin (or other implement) - I might try a dental tool.

[Trond]

On 4/14/2022 at 11:08 PM, Snug Harbor Johnny said:

  Trond,  I think I have an approach to squaring your holes that may work.  Mulling over the problem today, I chanced to recall using a mortising drill for furniture making.  Yes, it is a way to 'drill' a square hole - in that there is a long square housing with side openings that has a wood auger inside.  When used with a drill press on a piece of wood to get a mortice (for a tenon, of course) the auger cuts a round hole and the sharp, square corners of the holder follow and cut square corners.  The chips from the round hole come up the flutes of the auger to come out the open sides of the square holder, and the chips sliced out of the corners just come up with everything else.

 

  Now there is no such tool small enough for model applications, BUT there are miniature carvers made for bird and duck wood carving.  I have such a set I used for old time gun smithing (got them from Woodcraft).  One of the is a tiny square 'v' carver.  The tools come both straight and with bent ends.  The 'v' tool will cut a square corner into the round hole already drilled.  One can judge 'by eye' where to make the other three chip cuts to square the other corners, but I suppose they could be marked with a pencil dot for a guide.  The tiny chips that come out of the corners can either be blown out or 'winkled' out with a pin (or other implement) - I might try a dental tool.

Snug, do you have a picture or a drawing. I'm having a litle difficult to see it, but it sounds intersesting for later projects.