Atlantica by Wintergreen – Scale 1:30 - POF - sail training ketch - a smack of English heritage

[Wintergreen]

23 hours ago, KeithAug said:

It hurts my head trying to work out what they are doing?

Well Keith, as the caption clearly states: "De två timmermännen har spikat upp långa lister, även de kallas sänt, som visar hur bordläggningens plankor kommer att löpa. .."

Can't really understand what is hard to get about that 😄 

What they actually are doing is figuring out the run of the planks and that there is some wood to fasten the ends to. The stern frames are bolted to the stern timber and then the filling pieces are bolted sideways into the stern frames.

Anyway, it will be fun when I get there...

[KeithAug]

55 minutes ago, Wintergreen said:

What they actually are doing is figuring out the run of the planks

 

Interesting - more "suck it and see" than I might have expected.

[druxey]

Just catching up with you, Håkan. Very nice work. I, too wish I were fluent in CAD!

[Wintergreen]

Thank you druxey for shown interest, but I'm in no way fluent in CAD. I'm merely learning as I go.

The software I use has 3D functionality and I did try that some time ago. To my own astonishment I managed to create a hull-like shape. But then, I realized that it would take me ages after ages to get to the wood chipping business I quickly moved back to 2D. 

Soon I will continue my written story about the drafting and how I use Waynes treatise as a guide. 

At the moment it is slow going since all this with chemo really boggs up my brain. But I will get there!

[KeithAug]

1 hour ago, Wintergreen said:

since all this with chemo really boggs up my brain.

 

Hakan - You do remarkably well, i admire your fortitude.

[Wintergreen]

Hi all, just a wee update to show that I'm still at it.

Seven more frames to disassemble, nearly there...

Each frame is written to A4 for simple printing. 

 

Thanks for comments and likes!

Back to TurboCAD DeLuxe...

[KeithAug]

I think you undersell your CAD skills. Impressive.

[Wintergreen]

1.2.                   Frame lofting party

All Atlantica’s frames are double from sawn timber. All necessary details can be found in the construction drawing.

 

From the latest lines plan, create a copy and start by removing all station lines from it. Instead put in new station lines corresponding to the given distance for frames. On older drawings usually called room and space. Room is the space the frame occupies lengthwise and Space is the distance between two frames. In the detail above the room would be 210 mm and space 450 – 210 = 340.

 

 

To get consistency throughout I copied the entire center structure from my Construction keel plan. That way everything matches up with timbers and deadwood. On the keel plan I also had already marked where most frames would be. A bit of cleaning up was needed to get rid of some surplus lines.

I used the rectangle tool to create the first double frame and then did a linear copy to create the lot. Then a lot of trimming and numbering and I’m all set.

 

One thing missing from the construction plan are details about futtocks. That is the members of the frames. There is no clear evidence in the book either apart from them using quite few futtocks for each frame. From what I can gather from all pictures no more than maybe 6 members for each double frame.

 

The practice seems to be to mirror the futtocks for each half of the frame. That is my best bet and it will also limit the number of members in total.

 

As a practice run I lofted the widest frame, no 22 it turned out to be. Red depicts the aft face of the aft members and blue depicts the forward face of the forward members of the frame. The grey line is waterline 8 which is also the actual waterline and it is marked out for being a good reference point when mounting the frames. The taper or siding is also a bit of guess work and what looks good. The top and bottom ends are given by circumstances but the taper in between is just been shapely made up.

 

 

After a couple of more practice runs I started creating frames from aft working on forward. A decision was also made to omit frames that did not have stanchions on them bar the aft 10 frames. They will all be done. The reason for this is to reduce the labour of framing the ship on my behalf.

The process of drawing the frames are quite straight forward as described in Wayne’s treatise. Simply, on the sheer plan, construction lines are set at 

every crossing between a futtock line and station/frame line. The futtock line describes a curve. On the half breadth plan a construction line is set at every crossing between a water line and station/frame line. These two sets of construction lines converge in the body box. Then it is a matter of tracing these intersections and voilá, you have a frame line.

I take the liberty of a screenshot from Wayne’s treatise to show the setup of plans. It will give you an idea of how it works with construction lines and all that jazz.

 

 

Of course all this takes place after the plans have been faired. Nevertheless, bumps appear when the frames are lofted. It is hard to have plans 100% faired for all station, water and futtock lines. Take it as sanding margin.

After all frames are lofted comes the work with exploding them into separate members for templates to use when cutting timber. I choose to put most members on separate sheets. Every sheet has the centreline and waterline marked for easy adjustment and lining up when building. All 36 frame sheets are shown in the screenshot below. Size is A4 for easy printing.

 

As can be seen in the screenshot above, three colours are used.

• Green is used for the aft most face of the frame.
• Red is used for the middle face of the frames. Remember, each frame is double. Apart for the frames in the middle of the ship where the red is omitted due to the small or little bevel on these frames.
• Blue is used for the forward face of the frame.

 

The templates are printed to be glued on the forward face of the forward frame pieces and on the aft face of the aft frame pieces. Hence the aft templates are mirrored for this purpose.

Since I had the CAD up to speed, work continued on the frame plans for the shipway or building board. I have understood that it simplifies greatly to have the ship built upon a framing plan. Then it is a matter of setting the gantry on the frame line in question. The keel and centreline structure needs to sit firmly in place on the shipway though.

Here is a screenshot of the framing plan.

 

For my own convenience it is printed on three, size A3 papers. As it happens there is an A3, colour printer at my work... what a coincidence.

Each frame is numbered and there is an additional line where the keel ends. Also in this plan can be seen the gaps where frames were left out.  One might wonder why there is a gathering of frames at no 30-35. That is because the main mast goes there and more stanchions are needed for the pin rails. The same goes for frames six through ten.

 

With all this work done some building can take place. Next item up for drafting is the deck structure with deck beams, carlings, hatches and bitts and stuff. 

 

Thank you if you read all the way here. I hope all this text makes at least some sense. 

 

Til next time, ta!

Edited February 22, 2022 by Wintergreen

[Wintergreen]

Hi guys,

Quick status update.

Over the last weeks I've been preparing framing.

That meant, 

1. Finish the centreline structure

2. Print the framing plan for the shipway and all plans for the frames

3. Build and mount the slanted keel support

4. Glue the plan to the shipway

5. Build end supports to hold the ends (no duh 😄)

6. Prepare wood for the frames

 

Bullet one was fairly quick since the only parts missing were the fashion pieces. After some trimming they aligned with one another.

Bullet two was really easy. Got that done before I went on 100% sick leave.

Bullet three took some time. However, I didn't really think it through since I mounted the keel support prior to gluing the plan on the shipway. I had some challenge in getting the plan at the correct place in correlation to the keel. But what would building scale model boats be without a challenge or three??

Anyway, I solved it so now the plan and the keel are on par with each other.

The plan I glued with spray glue after carefully masking off all adjacent surfaces of the shipway.

Finally, the stem and stern supports. Inspiration was taken from EdT:s Najad build vol 1, where he describes both the shipway as well as supports and other stuff.

And finally finally, the most time consuming task, milling timber to scale thickness. I have yet to decide whether to use birch or apple. Probably I will do a couple of test frames. In calling them "test frames" I hide the issue of redoing stuff. Clever huh?

 

After all this text, some pictures.

(don't mind the background mess)

 

 

And Karsten is happy as Larry (just learnt that expression 🙂)

[druxey]

Just catching up. Looking good so far, Håkan!

[KeithAug]

Hakan,

 

Your off cuts bin looks a bit like mine - wood, broom handles both metal and wood, bit of tubing etc, etc. You have reminded me - i musts sort it out. Nice progress on the build - all looking very neat. 

[jlefever]

A wonderful clean looking start. I look forward to seeing your next steps.

 

Jim

[Wintergreen]

On 3/10/2022 at 10:27 PM, KeithAug said:

Your off cuts bin looks a bit like mine - wood, broom handles both metal and wood, bit of tubing etc, etc

Yes, sorry about that mess. Probably should sort it through also. 😋

 

On another note for those who are interested, not shipbuilding, I'm done with the chemo since last Wednesday. Follow up x-rays revealed that the tumor had significantly diminished in size. Next up will be a preop meeting with the surgery dept in 1,5 weeks. 

Still suffering from side effects though, and I'm still very tired. 

But the sun is shining!

[KeithAug]

6 hours ago, Wintergreen said:

On another note for those who are interested, not shipbuilding, I'm done with the chemo since last Wednesday. Follow up x-rays revealed that the tumor had significantly diminished in size. Next up will be a preop meeting with the surgery dept in 1,5 weeks. 

Still suffering from side effects though, and I'm still very tired. 

But the sun is shining!

 

Good to hear Hakan, hopefully it is all improvement from here, fingers crossed that you see a rapid return to good health.

[FlyingFish]

7 hours ago, Wintergreen said:

But the sun is shining!

Indeed it is! Sounds like very positive news Hakan, pleased to hear it.

[Wintergreen]

@KeithAug, @FlyingFish Thank you guys!

Yes, I try to keep an upbeat note to this crap called cancer. Makes it easier to bear.

 

Stay tuned for more updates on my build... I feel there are frames coming soon...

[Jim Lad]

The backbone of your model looks really good, mate.  Also very positive news re the tumor.  Ain't chemo a fun time in your life!!! 

 

John

[Wintergreen]

On 3/12/2022 at 9:04 PM, Jim Lad said:

Ain't chemo a fun time in your life!!! 

No John, it's not! 😄

I have managed to build and mount three frames. It's a finicky business to say the least.

On another note, the surgery is done and I'm currently in the hospital. Will be released this weekend as it looks right now. Belly looks like a Swiss cheese with all the patches...

Restrictions are no lifting. No cycling. Nothing heavy for at least 4-6 weeks. Modelboat building should be okay though. 😉

Spirits are, if not high, on a modest level anyway.

[KeithAug]

1 hour ago, Wintergreen said:

Will be released this weekend as it looks right now. Belly looks like a Swiss cheese with all the patches...

Restrictions are no lifting. No cycling. Nothing heavy for at least 4-6 weeks. Modelboat building should be okay though. 😉

I think you may be quoting from the standard play book. 

[mtaylor]

That's great news, Håkan.  As for the restrictions... seems model work is best option, but then, we're all biased here for that.

[Jim Lad]

Håkan, it's a bit sad to have to tell your wife, "Sorry, honey, but according to the doctors, all I can do around the house for the next six weeks is a bit of model making!" 

 

John

[vaddoc]

These are indeed good news Hakan! Hopefully you ll be on the mend in no time at all. Your boat also seems to be progressing  very well. I am very impressed that you can create a three dimensional fair hull from just 2D plans, I am really looking forward to see how all will come together.

I presume you will use birch for the planks? What wood did you chose for the frames?

 

Vaddoc

[Wintergreen]

On 4/1/2022 at 10:07 PM, vaddoc said:

I am very impressed that you can create a three dimensional fair hull from just 2D plans, I am really looking forward to see how all will come together.

Vaddoc, well, that remains to be seen, doesn't it? And I also am looking forward to see if it will come together.

 

Anyway, it's been a while and I was not released from hospital on that particular weekend. Instead it became almost three weeks in hospital with an additional surgery Fri April 1st. It's a story for itself and I will not recapitulate it here.

Status now is that I need IV every day to keep my fluids balanced and I can be up and about for a hour or so before pain takes the fun out of it. They've been rummaging about in my lower abdominum and it takes a while before it "sets" again. Hence the pain.

 

Boatbuildingwise four frames are now in place. Frame no 4 was prepared before my hospital experience and today I felt good enough to glue it in place.

It looks like this:

Four frames done means it is 32 to go...well, one at a time. Slow and steady, slow and steady.

 

Finally, thank you for likes, comments and well wishes!

[vaddoc]

I hope all will settle soon Hakan! If they did as good a job as you do with your boat, you ll be back to normal in no time at all. 

I like very much your generous rabet at the horn timbers, very nice. I cannot follow it further down the hull though.

[KeithAug]

Hakan, glad to see you back in the workshop even if it is only an interlude between the daily IV treatments.  Noting Vaddoc’s comment I think it unlikely that the average medic would be as pedantic about their craft as the average msw builder.

 

Your framing and keel are looking very good. Sometimes slow and sure is the best strategy for both model boats and convalescing builders.

[Jim Lad]

Great to see you making time for the workshop, Håkan.  While we love to see your model growing, just remember that your wellbeing is absolute top of the list for you.

 

John

[mtaylor]

I can only agree with what the others have said, Håkan.  It's great that you're home and able to do some ship work even if it's only for an hour which is a (personal belief) form of therapy.

[Wintergreen]

I thought that it's time to treat the audience with a small update.

The "quick recovery" is unfortunately not what my body was in for. However, on the upside I've skipped the painkillers and I'm back to work tomorrow at 50%. Downside, I still need IV Mon through Fri, but I think that is about to change soon. My bowel is slowly going back to normal speed. Right now I'm only 10-15% above target. It has been 70-90% previously. And I still get (very) tired after any kind of exercise. 

 

Anyway, that about my health. 

Now about the build. 

Frames are coming along at a slow and steady pace. No 9 is in place. No 10 is what you see resting on the board. Before it got too crowded I took care of the keelson (laying beside the keel structure).

With No 10 in place I'm 1/3 done with building the frames. Parts for No 12 to 32 are already sawn and waiting for their turn. 

If you wonder, the ruler is set at deck level. I chose that as reference instead of any other line. Timber tops will need trimming and the waterline is secondary to the build I thought.

It can't be seen in this photo, but the timbertops are waywing a bit in and out. That will be remedied when the horizontal help beam is removed and sanding commence. 

Also, the templates are mounted to the frames with double adhesive tape. No too tricky to remove after sanding has taken place.

Finally, a Big thank you for likes, comments and well wishes!

 

[Jim Lad]

Great to see you back in the workshop, Håkan.  

 

John

[Wintergreen]

Me again. Thanks for likes and comments! Always appreciated.

As can be seen in the photos below progress is being made. My goal is one frame per day. As of now, #30 is glued in place (yes, after the picture was taken) which means I'm not exactly up to target. After frame zero, actually no 22, I'm on the home stretch regarding framing. The hull shape is starting to show now.

Apart from that, not much else to report at the moment. Feeling quite well and been out MTB-ing a couple of times in the last week. Feels good!