Kilkis ex Mississippi (BB-23) by Panagiotis - FINISHED - scale 1:100 - Greek Battle Ship

[Panagiotis]

Hi all.

After the construction of the model of Armed Cruiser Averof and a time of laziness, I decided to start a new model. This time it’s the Battle Ship “Kilkis”, another warship of  the Greek Navy.

Kilkis (Greek: Κιλκίς) was a 13,000 ton Mississippi-class battleship originally built by the US Navy in 1904–1908. As “Mississippi bb-23” she was purchased by the Greek Navy in 1914, along with her sister “Idaho bb-24” and they both renamed as “Kilkis”, and “Lemnos”.

Kilkis was named for the Battle of Kilkis-Lahanas, (an aria nearby the town of “Kilkis” at northern Greece) a crucial engagement of the Second Balkan War.

She was armed with a main battery of four 12 in (305 mm) guns, Kilkis and it was the most powerful vessel in the Greek fleet. (along with her sister “Lemnos”)

The ship saw limited action during World War I. as it was decided to be operated solely as a harbor defense ship.

In the immediately ensuing Greco-Turkish War of 1919–1922, “Kilkis” supported the Greek landing in Asia Minor and participated in the final Greek sea-borne withdrawal in 1922.

She remained in service into the early 1930s, when she was used for a training ship. During the German invasion of Greece in 1941, she and her sister were sunk in Salamis by German Ju 87 Stuka dive-bombers. The two ships were ultimately raised in the 1950s and broken up for scrap.

More of its history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_battleship_Kilkis

Below I post some photos of her Greek carrier. 

Thanks

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[Kenneth Powell]

I will follow your log with interest since I am from Mississippi and have read a bit on bb23.

[ccoyle]

Based on your results with the Averof, this should turn out to be an excellent model.

 

Cheers!

[Panagiotis]

Thank you mates....

Having decided to go with “Kilkis”, I started gathering information from wherever I could find them.

Again my Greek friend Falieros (an acclaimed modeler), from his personal collection, provided me some incomplete drawings, which along with information and photos from the magazine “Warship Profile no 39", gave me what I needed to re-draw the hull lines.

I chose to build the model in the scale of 1:100, not only because this is my favorite scale, but also because at this scale, the model will reach the 116 cm (45.6693 inc) very convenient length, that will allow me  to carry it easily it in my cars’ back seat…

For those who are not familiar it's a big torment when you have to carry such a model in a trailer or on the roof of a car...

So for one more reason I felt happy... 

I proceed with the “bread and butter” method and the first planks are set.

A difference from the previous models of mine is that in the middle of the first planks, I placed a vertical plank shaped as the side view of the hull.

By doing this, I have a guidance but also a support, when I’ll be placing the rest of the horizontal planks, shaping the hull.

 

 

Thanks

Edited April 29, 2014 by Panagiotis

[Panagiotis]

Some progress.

The hard work...

 

The result 

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Thanks

Edited April 29, 2014 by Panagiotis

[Panagiotis]

Some more progress, raising up the bow and the stern…

I was trying to save some wood, using small spare pieces of it, but soon I realized that it was a waste of time,

trying to adjust them properly in places…

 

At this point I have reached the level of the deck for the prow and stern.

The deck at the middle of the hull will be supported by a waved construction, leaving also room for the eight (8) ( 7'' ) side guns.

 

Pencil marks at the positions of the side guns.

 

Thanks

Edited April 29, 2014 by Panagiotis

[Panagiotis]

The construction goes slow but steady…

The waved construction in the middle of the hull has been set as well the turrets of the eight (8) ( 7'' ) side guns.

The turrets have been made by cutting an aluminum tube but for the time being without barrels, as they are going to be built later.

Avoiding photos from the joyless stage of grouting, filing, making dirt and dust,  I'm just posting a photo of the hull, in the middle of that process...

The black painted parts are going to be covered by properly shaped plastic strips.

On these strips, I will shape portholes and thus the black color will give the sense of the inner of the hull.

Wait for my next post...

Thanks

Edited August 11, 2013 by Panagiotis

[Panagiotis]

The work with those plastic strips…

The strips at the prow were cut in the proper shape, the portholes were opened and they painted with gray color in their thickness.

I made the painting at this stage, because later it would be quite difficult without spoiling the black background…

 

Coming to stern the work was a bit different.

If I was going with a strip in one piece (for each side) this should be curved in both axes and that wasn't easy.

Watching a photo showing the real ship in repair stage, I noticed that there were iron plates that were forming -

covering the same part of the hull. And that was what I needed...

 

Thanks

Edited August 14, 2013 by Panagiotis

[Jim Lad]

A good start to what will no doubt be another beautiful build!

 

I'll be watching with interest.

 

John

[Panagiotis]

Hi. I’m doing some work at the ship’s hull, actually I’m constructing some bilge keels (there are many...).

So studying drawings and photos, I came to a query.

As you can see there is a metal plate at the bow, (I guess both sides) in which I didn't manage to find any information.

Is there anyone who can enlighten me?

Thanks

 

[Jim Lad]

They're probably fixed torpedo tubes.  A lot of early battleships had them.

 

John

[Panagiotis]

Thanks for the answer John.

This was also my first thought but in the magazine (Warship profile No 39) is written that:

“There were also two 21in torpedo tubes mounted underwater on the lower platform deck.

These were near the bow and were fixed to fire directly abeam, one on either side.”

So, it must be something else (?)

Thanks

Edited August 21, 2013 by Panagiotis

[Panagiotis]

Bilge keels are set, eight (8) of them...!

I will proceed with the plates at the bow... the question can wait.

 

Thanks

 

[mtaylor]

Those plates could still be doors for fixed forward firing torpedoes.  As I recall, at this stage in BB development there were still a lot of different things being tried and either accepted for the next generation or rejected.  I remember seeing one that had tubes firing dead astern.  I guess they wanted as much firepower as they could carry.

[realworkingsailor]

Another couple of thoughts... perhaps they were torpedo doors, and have since been plated over?

 

Or maybe simply reinforcement for ramming?

 

 

 

Andy

Edited August 24, 2013 by realworkingsailor

[Jim Lad]

Andy,

 

I would have thought any reinforcement at the bow would be via internal stiffeners.  I still can't think of anything other than torpedo tubes.

 

John

[Panagiotis]

Hi all and thank you for your answers.

Well, I'm not an expert but here are some thoughts of mine.

If we consider them as shutters of the torpedo tubes, then, as far I know those shutters are withdrawn inside the nest of the muzzle at the side of the vessel (in a submarine). But in this case these "shutters" look rather like closures-covers and I can't imagine how these would be functional (for them themselves or the ship) being expanding away from the hull, in ship’s battle speed.

In the other hand, I don’t think you construct torpedo tubes and seal them, just because you change your mind …or you construct them for a potential future use…

You don't make torpedo room-tubes without plans. Plans are needed because it's not only the outer doors of the tubes. You have to draw also the surrounding area and how this battle station is going to be fitted in the specific part of the hull. There is also the matter of the ammo. You have to draw the whole path through (the rest apartments) a torpedo will end up at the launching room (or the store room) when the ship replenishes ammo.

Therefore I think it's not so easy to abandon or modify a construction at that scale and when this already has been made.

Of course “There is always a first time for everything”…

So until a new valid point of view, I tend to believe that are iron plates to provide protection or reinforcement to the bow.

Thanks

Edited August 26, 2013 by Panagiotis

[mtaylor]

You pointed out the two forward tubes that fire abeam, but from the pictures, it doesn't appear that there are external doors for them.  As for front tubes, a door does not have to be hinged. Submarine forward torpedo tubes come to mind on this.   It could slide back, up, or down.  Now again, given the time period, it's possible that fore tubes firing forward might have been removed and a plate welded over the opening as Andy suggests.   Are there any plans showing the interior fittings at that level?

 

Without knowing what's there, maybe the best way is just to show a plate.

[Panagiotis]

Mark, the two torpedo tubes that fire abeam, were no affecting the hydrodynamic state of the ship. Maybe that's why there were no doors-shutters, at least being shown.

I don’t know what you have seen as moving side back-up and down doors but you have to consider the position of the arm-s that was holding-removing the plate (shutter) and the channel on the surface of the hull, inside which had to be moving (the arm-s).

The book says that the two abeam tubes were the only ones since of her build.

There is also a drawing which I can’t “read” it... and a photo from her construction but I don't think it shows something more.

...

In my research I have found two more photos from her launching and after some Photoshop work, maybe there is something interesting on one of these.

As you can see the marks of the draft appear to follow a step at the hull’s surface and maybe this is an indication that the plates were placed from the beginning of her construction.

Unfortunately I don’t have more information on this and yes I have already proceeded as if they are iron plates.

 

Thanks

Edited August 25, 2013 by Panagiotis

[mtaylor]

Good research and good thinking.  I think you're doing the right thing.

[Jim Lad]

Those launch photos certainly don't seem to show any sign of tubes right in the bow pointing forward.  I wonder if the plate is anything to do with the armour belting?

 

John

[Panagiotis]

Ok. Better late than never...

I took another look in the magazine and I think the mystery is hidden in the lines below.

Some additional web search, confirmed the construction and the use of a ram for the pre-dreadnoughts

and a closer look at the previous drawing, shows the plates over many bulkheads at the bow.

Finally we can end up that those iron plates were supporting the ram.

Thanks

 

[realworkingsailor]

It makes sense, really. In a ramming situation, you wouldn't want your own shell plating peeling like a sardine tin....

 

Andy

[Panagiotis]

The work goes on. The hawseholes, the muzzles of the torpedo tubes, and the side guns are placed.

What followed is a short wall at the perimeter, which will determine the position of the main deck, which a small part of it has already been set at the prow.

The aft lower deck has also been cut and placed but only temporarily. Certainly, I’m referring to a shaped piece of plywood, on which and in time, glued planks of 1.5 × 1.5 mm are going to give the final form.

The rear deck is planed to be removable, giving an easy access to the "engine room". In contrary the main deck will be unmovable, but not for the part of the superstructure, and so there will be another open for to the batteries.

View of the starboard. The empty spaces before the short wall, are going to be the places for the spare anchors.

 

View of the rear-starboard. Pencil marks for some future fittings are visible on the deck.

 

 

Thanks

 

 

[Jim Lad]

Very nice progress!

 

John

[Kenneth Powell]

She looks great. Keep up the good work and the posts with photos

[Panagiotis]

Of course Brian...And yes, I think you are right...

Seeing again the photos of her launching, I also noticed I have missed the right angle ...

I see whether I can do something...

Thank you

[druxey]

The 'under construction' photo appears to show the fore end of an armour belt with the fore end angled to match the curve of the stem.

[Panagiotis]

Hi all.

After a double check of my drawings and some additional research, I have come up to some clues.

 Most significant is that In the lines of the magazine is written:

The reason that the muzzles appear pointing forward, in the previous launching photo, I think is the angle that the photo has been taken and as she was moving backward and down to the sea.

Initially I thought I have done a mistake on the model, but watching again her photos and photos from other ships, I think I haven't.

As you can see in the below photo, with the ship in a dry dock, there is no angle apart from the given sense because of the shape of the hull.

The photos below show the USS Texas in her launching.

I think it’s understandable the different sense that is given on every photo, on the position and the angle of the muzzles.

Ending with some final thoughts: There was no need to be pointing forward, since there was the ability of gyro angle settings.

The forward pointing muzzles should have been drawn and built in a relation with the hydrodynamic of the hull.

 

Thanks

Edited September 3, 2013 by Panagiotis

[Panagiotis]

Some progress with prow details, grouting and priming.

 

Thanks

Edited September 4, 2013 by Panagiotis