HM Sloop Echo 1781 by VTHokiEE - 1:48 - Cross-Section

[druxey]

Glenn: I use a Proxxon today, but still use a pin vise in certain situations. The transformer unit has a rheostat to vary speed.

[VTHokiEE]

31 minutes ago, tlevine said:

For a task like drilling the holes in frames, I put the bit in the sensitive press on my Sherline mill.

Do you do this in sections as you build the frame? I can’t quite visualize how to drill on one side when I need >5” to fit the entire frame in a vise.

[tlevine]

Yes, I do it in sections, drilling from the exterior side of the frame.  

[VTHokiEE]

Ever have one of those days when you build the entire frame and everything looks good, but then (after you checked the treenail arrangement twice but have the frame facing the wrong way) drill the treenail pattern backwards on the fourth frame? Sigh… thankfully deconstructing the frame and redoing the chocks isn’t that tricky/wasteful.

 

Looking forward to the next frame - Does anyone have any suggestions for shaping the special case toptimbers? I have gone through a few different methods in my head but none seem effective (trying to stretch the shape in photoshop and gluing it to the side of the frame). Thanks for any tips!

Edited February 20, 2022 by VTHokiEE

[dvm27]

Yes, I have drilled the treenails backwards and replaced the work. Actually, if you're using scale sized treenails they should be barely visible. I'm betting if the same "mistake" happened while building the ship they would have just let them be.

 

The special case toptimbers are just made from thicker material. I then used my Byrnes thickness sander to reduce the cast toptimber to the correct thickness and blended it by hand to the lower futtock. My PowerPoint build may show how this was done.

http://admiraltymodels.homestead.com/Tips.html

 

 

[VTHokiEE]

9 minutes ago, dvm27 said:

Yes, I have drilled the treenails backwards and replaced the work.

I must say, I’m glad that it’s not only me 😃. I had thought about leaving it but it would annoy me (at least I think it would) so why not fix it while I’m here.

 

I’ll take a look through the PowerPoint. I assumed using thick material was so that it could be sanded to shape instead of bent, Interesting.

[glbarlow]

I solve that problem by not including tree nails 🙂

 

[dvm27]

6 hours ago, VTHokiEE said:

I must say, I’m glad that it’s not only me 😃. I had thought about leaving it but it would annoy me (at least I think it would) so why not fix it while I’m here.

 

I’ll take a look through the PowerPoint. I assumed using thick material was so that it could be sanded to shape instead of bent, Interesting.

Bent?  Not possible mon ami. I wrote blended. Make your toptimber 3 aft 11 1/2" wide to start. There is a Power Point photo that should show you how to shape it.

[VTHokiEE]

6 hours ago, dvm27 said:

Bent?  Not possible mon ami. I wrote blended

Apparently my mind was on autopilot and read what it wanted instead of what was there. Thanks for the correction, I’ll be checking out the PowerPoint today when I’m at a PC.

[VTHokiEE]

Nothing really to report but I'm a third of the way through the frames. There's not enough time in a day lately so it took me a little longer to get through swapping the treenails around to correct my last error. Now for the special toptimbers, wish me luck!

 

[druxey]

I suppose you could bend the toptimber - if you made it of pasta!

[EricWilliamMarshall]

How goes it?

[VTHokiEE]

12 hours ago, EricWilliamMarshall said:

How goes it?

In a word - slowly. I have 7/12 frames completed (and hopefully correctly 🙂 ) and have broken ground on the 8th. Life took me for a bit of ride out of the shipyard at the beginning of the year (nothing bad) and as much as I wish I could spend more time on the build life and the temperature in my garage are currently against me. I'll keep slowly working away at it though but I figure no one really wants to see pictures of 3 (and ultimately 8 ) more fairly similar frames - ha.

Edited July 5, 2022 by VTHokiEE

[EricWilliamMarshall]

2 hours ago, VTHokiEE said:

Life took me for a bit of ride out of the shipyard

No worries; this is a hobby not a job.  And, yes, we are fine seeing more frames. It is much easier to watch than do.

 

[Theodosius]

Cool project! 🙂

[VTHokiEE]

So I have run into a slight problem reading the plans (currently available here: http://www.admiraltymodels.com/Tips.html) and I am hoping  that some advice from the forum can help me determine the best way to proceed. The top timber on frame 3 aft casts forward to make the side of a port. In the sided frame dimensions this top timber is marked as 9" and the second futtocks is marked as 8 1/2". I added the second futons and was preparing to deal with the top timbers (I've honestly am not certain how to approach shaping this yet which has not helped motivate me to work faster) when I saw that in the sided frame dimensions image it doesn't appear as if the toptimber extends past the second futtocks as shown in the next picture (which it would have to if it were indeed 1/2" thicker).

So then I started looking at pictures of the finished frame and it looks like the second futtocks is the same thickness as the floors (10 1/2").

Right now I think I need to remake the second futtocks thicker but since this is counter to the sided dimensions I was hoping that some could advise? Thank you!

 

[No Idea]

Just my thoughts - but looking at the picture and the drawing I would suspect that the 9" top timber tapers very slightly in the bend as it meets the 8 1/2" futtock.  If I were making this part I would make it out of a wider piece and cut the shape into it.  I don't know if this will help but thats what I see - cheers Mark

[glbarlow]

No advice to offer, however I’m very impressed with your dedication to this complex project. 

[VTHokiEE]

1 hour ago, No Idea said:

make it out of a wider piece and cut the shape into it

Thanks, I will definitely be making it out of a wider piece - I wonder if I should simply taper it down instead of changing the futtocks. I suppose either path will work in the end (assuming it doesn't look off).

 

1 hour ago, glbarlow said:

No advice to offer, however I’m very impressed with your dedication to this complex project. 

Thank you! It has definitely been an experience (and I'm hardly started ha!)

[No Idea]

If my assumption is correct and I'm sure that others may have a differing opinion I would make and glue the two parts together and then simply blend them together at the joint.  I think the most critical aspect is getting the offset correct.  Good luck mate 👍

[dvm27]

Been awhile since I made this frame but perhaps the photo will show better what I've done. I'm pretty sure I started with a wider toptimber and shaped it to fit the offset. It needs to be wide enough at the top to form the side of the port. Then shape downwards in a smooth arc to fay into the next futtock.

[VTHokiEE]

9 minutes ago, dvm27 said:

done. I'm pretty sure I started with a wider toptimber and shaped it to fit the offset.

Thanks this part makes sense; it’s the futtock width that I’m not entirely certain about. It seems like you may have used a thicker futtock than what the sides dimensions specify (but it’s hard to tell from the picture).

[tlevine]

As Greg said,  the top timber is initially wider.  Then, the aft portion of the upper part of the timber is sanded down and the fore portion of the lower timber is sanded.  In his picture you cannot tell that the entire timber is narrower because the band is hiding the joint.  If you go to the first post in my Echo (link in my signature) you can see the frame in question.

[VTHokiEE]

Thanks @tlevine your build images really cleared it up. I think I can continue on my merry way (🤞).

[VTHokiEE]

Thank you everyone that has helped me so far on this build I can't express my gratitude enough. Without it I would've certainly given up by now, but here I am with a touch of progress. I finally conquered my fear and tackled one of the top timbers on frame 3 aft. I'll go through my process in case it is of help to anyone (I can guarantee there are better ways but this made sense in my head. I first cut the piece out of a thicker piece of AYC to account for the cast (11.5" to account for the 2.5" cast on the 9" frame). I then used my micro mill to cut out the mostly straight portion of the forward cast (I did some editing of the frames and sided dimensions in photoshop to determine approximately where this line would be.

I then flipped the piece over to create a notch at 8.5" to help with the curved section. As an aside I used my Byrnes table saw and NRG thin strip jig (still trying to figure out the best way to set this up, but I got there) to cut a strip at 2.5" to help hold everything in the right place when I'm working and eventually clamping and gluing the piece to the frame.

Finally I drew the curve in, and rough sanded it out.

It isn't perfect (I unfortunately took a little chip out where the timbers meet - see below) but I'm pretty happy and proud that I was able to get here. Of course now to do the second one but the garage is so hot I need to hydrate and eat lunch.  

Thanks for following along!

 

[druxey]

Just remember to make a left and right, not two of the same! Well done so far.

[No Idea]

Thats some good milling there mate - I think you've got this.

[VTHokiEE]

Thank you @No Idea and @druxey! I’m going slow and keeping the parts on the left and right to do my best to avoid making identical parts. Now that I’ve said that I’ve pretty much jinxed myself into making identical parts 😁.

[No Idea]

1 minute ago, VTHokiEE said:

Thank you @No Idea and @druxey! I’m going slow and keeping the parts on the left and right to do my best to avoid making identical parts. Now that I’ve said that I’ve pretty much jinxed myself into making identical parts 😁.

Slow is good - what's the rush?  Take your time and just do your best.

[glbarlow]

This takes an a level of attention to detail I'm not sure I could muster.  Very interesting work, glad to see you back at it.