Young America 1853 by EdT - FINISHED - extreme clipper

[Randy Todd]

Ed (or anyone following)-

 

Any recommendations on milled wood vendors?

 

Thanks,

 

Randy

[EdT]

Can't help there, Randy.  I sized all my own pieces from large stock as described in the book. 

 

Ed

[dvm27]

Home schooling, Ed? for some reason I thought you were Grandpa age. Loss of Crown and Hobby Mill vendors were indeed a great loss for our hobby.

 

With regards to the hull strapping I'm just curious how they would have been secured? Would there be copper rivets with peened ends? The outer ends would have to be counter sunk into the frames for the external planking.

[EdT]

Hello Greg, nice to hear from you. I am indeed too old to be home schooling my own children.  Our adventures in "distance learning" are on behalf of my daughter's two girls - kindergarten and 3rd grade.  Their mom teaches at the local high school and is either at school or teaching from home all day so we are hosting the girls - 7am to 4.  Pretty busy days, but I am enjoying living 3rd grade again - especially relearning math.  Actually Charlotte does not need much help, having become quite computer savvy - these use several different applications, take and post photos of their work, etc.  However,   kindergarten with Georgia is a full time job for my wife Dorothy.  Thankfully that is one-half day.

 

The iron strapping - 4" x 1/2"(or 3/4?) if I remember correctly, was bolted at every frame and at every overlap.  Frames were mortised so the iron was flush with the frame to allow planking.  I installed the strapping on the inside of the hull.  The internal vs. external decision was a toss up, since both were used and there is no record for any of Webb's ships, only the Lloyd's register entry which confirmed that she was strapped.  It would take a better structural engineer than me to analyze any difference, but I believe it would be a wash.  There would be great advantage in installation in favor of internal.  Since the straps run from keel to topside the entire height would require scaffolding, unlike a single progressing working level for planking.  Cutting slots to fit the straps externally would be more difficult, involving mostly overhead mortise work - likewise for the driving of bolts.  Given the very short construction time for the ship and the very urgent demand for these carriers at the time, I decided that these factors would lead to internal strapping.  I believe iron bolts would be used because the boltheads would be under the external hull planking. Copper would be very expensive for this and would not be appropriate against the dissimilar iron.  I believe these would be  the usual malleable iron bolts probably with a head on the iron side, driven through slightly undersized holes and peened over on the outer end.  These would be flush like other bolting.  The strap and any bolthead projection would have had to be set low enough to allow planking to lay flat on the frames.  I do not know how crossing of the straps was handled to accommodate this.  A long answer to a short question, but this was one of the more interesting decisions made on the model and lacking real data, assumptions had to be made.

 

The model strapping is thin enough not to require mortising of the frames - thankfully.

 

Ed

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

Iron bracing revisited.

 

So I have my framework off my shipway and I have been fairing the outer hull (happy to see how sturdy the framework is at this point). I was intending to start the iron strapping next (before returning the model back to the shipway and finishing the hold) but now realize Young America's iron bracing was likely the Admiralty System rather than the Lloyd's. While there appears to be no documentation for YA (other than the latticework was present), Webb's ship Ocean Monarch, built in 1856, used the Admiralty System. It appears that builders were transitioning out of the Admiralty System in the 1850s and by the 1860s Lloyds came to predominate. It appears your educated guess was correct. 

 

Now I am trying to decide what to do. I think it is too late to pull up the hold planking now, especially with the copper bolting of the hold ceiling. I can stick to my plan and proceed modeling the Lloyd's bracing system, but now I have strong suspicions that this is historically incorrect. I can still brace the remaining of the internal hull and try retrofitting copper bands between the frames externally at the hold level (as fore and aft, at least, these areas are still very visible). Or could leave off the iron latticework altogether. No option seems satisfying. Damn.

 

Thanks for letting me vent.

 

Randy

[EdT]

Thank you, Randy.  Always good to hear reinforcement for ones educated guesses, but sorry to hear of your predicament.  No suggestions come immediately to mind.  What is your reference on Ocean Monarch?

 

Ed

[Randy Todd]

My primary reference is William Crothers The American-Build Clipper Ship, p196. He cites a WH Webb text 'Plans of Wooden Ships...from 1840-1869' published in 1895. I was betting that Webb would have advanced to the Lloyds System for his last extreme clipper. After reading Crothers, it is apparent that the Admiralty System was very much alive in 1850s ship construction. Damn.

[ClipperFan]

2 hours ago, Randy Todd said:

My primary reference is William Crothers The American-Build Clipper Ship, p196. He cites a WH Webb text 'Plans of Wooden Ships...from 1840-1869' published in 1895. I was betting that Webb would have advanced to the Lloyds System for his last extreme clipper. After reading Crothers, it is apparent that the Admiralty System was very much alive in 1850s ship construction. Damn.

EdT & Randy Todd

This is off topic but I thought you would appreciate this. While digging for rare images of "Glory of the Seas" in San Francisco Maritime Museum images, I stumbled on a beautiful starboard broadside view of "Young America." Her impressive lofty rig, long low hull and distinctive trailboard of a lady seated between two crossed flags are convincing evidence of her identity. Original photo is first. The second image has been brightened up to allow better viewing.

[EdT]

Thank you Randy, for the reference.  I am quite familiar with it, though over the past several years I had forgotten the specific passage.  I can confirm that at the time Crothers's analysis definitely influenced my decision to use internal strapping on the YA model.  I do believe, however, that there is room for doubt.

 

And thank you, GuntherT for the images.  I have never seen this photo, but agree that she is indeed Young America and I will be very pleased to add it to my collection - making a total of three.  The photo will take some study, but offhand I see nothing that departs from the others in terms of detail.  I would love to have had this when designing the model.  Thanks again.

 

Ed

[ClipperFan]

1 hour ago, EdT said:

Thank you Randy, for the reference.  I am quite familiar with it, though over the past several years I had forgotten the specific passage.  I can confirm that at the time Crothers's analysis definitely influenced my decision to use internal strapping on the YA model.  I do believe, however, that there is room for doubt.

 

And thank you, GuntherT for the images.  I have never seen this photo, but agree that she is indeed Young America and I will be very pleased to add it to my collection - making a total of three.  The photo will take some study, but offhand I see nothing that departs from the others in terms of detail.  I would love to have had this when designing the model.  Thanks again.

 

Ed

EdT

You're welcome from Rich aka "ClipperFan." We met briefly, years ago in Mystic, CT for the annual Model Ship Builder's Convention. That was just shortly after publication of your first book on constructing the Hull of Young America. I am constantly thrilled to find more images on line of these wonderful vessels, that previously have been buried in museum vaults.

[Randy Todd]

Wonderful photo. Another good reference!

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed- Finished Chapter 8. I like yours better. Randy

[EdT]

Looks beautiful, Randy - and very familiar.

 

Ed

[Moab]

Our "craft" doesn't get any better than this. Beautiful! Great photos and text. Thank you...Moab

[Rick310]

Ed, 

first let me congratulate you on the magnificent three book series building the young America. it is an invaluable resource for model shipbuilding and certainly sets the bar for for the rest of us to strive for!.

I I have a paining by Charles Ogilvy of the New Castle Maine build Clippership Golden Rule. The painting clearly shows an iron railing  around the stern and belaying pin rail exactly as you modeled for the Young America.

I thought you might find this interesting. Great job, regards Rick

[EdT]

Thank you for your comments and for the images, Rick.  Having read the books, you will know that deciding on that pin rail was one of the more difficult choices in designing the model.  Although there were others, most are well hidden within the ship and not as visible as this one.  My only excuse would be that all of those lines had to belay somewhere.  For those who don't remember, here's a reminder.  Note also the very full rail forward of the poop break.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ed

[EKE]

Ed-

 

I was doing a search on MSW on clippers, and discovered this log for Young America.  I have spent the last few days pouring over it with fascination and admiration.  I have seen many magnificent models here, by many master modellers.  But I have to say, I haven't seen anything quite like this incredible creation.  I mean it when I say:

 

This is a masterwork. 

 

Thank you for bringing it into the world, and thank you for sharing your technique in such beautiful detail.  I know I'll continue to learn from referring to this log for years to come.  As a beginning ship modeller, I have to say this is invaluable. 

 

With admiration,

Erik

Edited August 29, 2021 by EKE

[EdT]

Thank you, Erik, for your generous comments, and Keith for the thumbs up..  Its nice to know that the work is still being "discovered".

 

Cheers,

 

Ed

[BANYAN]

Not just 'discovered' Ed, but actively being used.  The quality of this work and your books will continue to not only be an inspiration, but an essential reference for clipper ships.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[EdT]

Thank you, Pat.  Always good to hear from you - and to keep up with your great work.

 

Ed

[rwiederrich]

6 hours ago, EdT said:

Thank you, Pat.  Always good to hear from you - and to keep up with your great work.

 

Ed

I've got your books in my library and I reference them all the time...though I do not go that *Deep* with my builds...the terminology and research you have done has paid off in dividends.    Thanks Ed.

 

Rob

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

Hope all is well.

 

I've re-started my YA project and am now fabricating/fitting/pinning the lower deck beams. Should I drill through or just into the frames when making my pin holes?

 

All the best,

 

Randy

[EdT]

Hi Randy,

 

I'm not sure I understand the question.  Could you be more specific?

 

Ed

[Randy Todd]

It looks like a hole is drilled through each end of the deck beams. The hole seems to be angled towards the deck clamp and I assume into the frame. Do I carry the hole through the entire thickness of the frame or stop before going through?

[EdT]

I'm sorry Randy, but I am still not following you.  The deck beams do not bolt through the frames or even into the frames if /I recall correctly.  If you can give me the drawing reference it may help.  IF you refer to page 136, Vol I, Figure 10-11 shows the detail for the model bolting.  Bolts are placed through the beam into the clamp and into the hanging knee.  Is this the detail you are referring to?

 

Ed

[Randy Todd]

Yes! Thank you!

 

I missed Figure 10-11. In earlier figures, the pins looked more angulated (and I assumed the holes -and later bolts- entered the frame rather than remaining in the deck clamp alone). Glad I waited and asked.

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

I have a housekeeping question: As the decks are installed, how do you remove wood shavings/dust that collect in the hold. Right now I'm only working on the lower deck. As the other decks are added, removal of debris seems like it will get more and more difficult. How did you address this issue?

 

Randy

[EdT]

Hi Randy,

 

The first recommendation is to keep out debris as much as possible to begin with.  Of course this is more of a nice goal rather that a practical solution.  I have used a shop vac from outside the hull to suck or blow stuff out, but also used compressed air spray cans with long tubes.  These are pretty effective at removing dust and getting into tight spaces.  The open framing at the bottom is, of course, a big help when blowing out dust.

 

Ed

[BANYAN]

Randy, further to Ed's excellent advice, I have made up a small tube extension for the end of my vac hose that results in a very useful accessory.  The flexibility of a thin walled plastic tube allows me to manoeuvre it into tight places - you can find many sizes at an Aquarium supplier).  Use one of those step down reduction adapters to fit the hose as best possible; then use telescoped tube of various sizes to get as close as possible to the final size you want, then pack any gaps with silicon sealer or use tape if only narrow gaps.  If you push the tubes further back one into each other without creating a long series of stepped tubes, you end up with a short fat end that can slide inside the adapter.  Put a bit of pantyhose/stocking between/over the adapter and thickened tube end when sucking up small parts (rather than having to dig them out of the vacuum bag

 

cheers

 

Pat

[EdT]

Sounds like quite a gadget, Pat.