Young America 1853 by EdT - FINISHED - extreme clipper

[Randy Todd]

Hi Pat-

I was thinking about something along those lines. Glad to hear it works. As the decks are framed, I'm anticipating the hold collecting a lot more than bilge water. 

 

Randy

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

I've put off buying a milling machine/lathe long enough: it is time to put my marriage to the test! At your recommendation, I have read through the Joe Martin book. Your instructions in the YA texts seem pretty detailed for the specific tasks. However, I have no experience with any of this (other than some keen lathe work in 7th grade woodshop). My goal is to have a set-up that will allow me to complete this specific project with as few 'extras' as possible ( I have no immediate plans what direction I will pursue after completing the YA). There are dangers of going 'too simple' and 'too complex'. In the Micromark catalogue, there is a Unimat 6-in-1 modular system that seems simple and space efficient. I believe you reference using a Unimat in Volume 1 but I'm not sure we're talking about the same system. Sherline has many options, but all seem much more complex and space consuming. I know this puts you on the spot, but any advice regarding an option that should allow me to complete this project without going overboard would help greatly. I'm concerned my inexperience may lead me in the wrong direction. Any thoughts?

 

Randy

[EdT]

Hi Randy,

 

My Unimat is an ancient Unimat SL that I purchased used in 1978.  It is not the item now offered by Micromark.  I cannot comment on that product.  I have a Sherline mill and can recommend it highly.  Whatever tools you buy will require additional accessories to do most things.  They can be expensive.  If I recall correctly, the most complex milling job in the book was making the pump wheels with their 5 s-curved spokes.  This required a rotary table, specific milling cutters, and of course, tools for measuring and centering of the rotary table.  For these pieces I would refer you to the detailed descriptions in the book.  This is a pretty complex bit of work and you may wish to forgo that complexity and the accessory cost and go with something simpler in design. 

 

Recognizing that not many of us are machinists (me included), I tried to provide very complete instructions on machining tasks.  I would recommend reading those and deciding what you wish to tackle.  This goes for most of the tasks where the machine tools were used.

 

Combination tools offer advantages and have some disadvantages.  Cost and perhaps space requirements are obvious advantages, but most of these tools have a small footprint on the workbench.  Cost benefits include initial machine costs plus savings on any accessories that can be used in different ways on the same machine.  The primary disadvantage is setup time.  For many years I used the Unimat as a lathe, a mill, a circular saw, grinder and drill press.  I gradually tired of the setup time required for the changeouts, sometimes multiple changes for a single piece, and eventually added single purpose tools, first a circular saw, then the Sherline mill.

 

The Sherline mill is a very versatile tool for tasks ranging from simple drilling to complex precision tasks.  In reading the books I am sure you noted that the range of uses is wide.  I find that the most useful Sherline mill accessory is the sensitive drilling attachment.  A rotating base for the milling vise is a useful everyday substitute for the expensive rotary table.  The list of Sherline accessories is long and bank account threatening.  The only gripe I have with Sherline is that the milling vise often makes me want to scream out loud.  I understand its design as a rigid platform for machining, but I often wish they had a simple screw vise to use for ordinary tasks like drilling and even some light machining.  I have been unsuccessful in finding something like this on the market.  Tool companies seem to avoid making accessories usable on other brands.

 

At the end of the day, you will need to evaluate your needs, your tolerance for the learning curve involved in the use of tools like this and the price tag of the initial tool and the accessories that will be needed.  You may find the chapter (YA Vol I) on tools and which ones to purchase first to be helpful, if you have not yet read it. 

 

Its all part of the work process,  Good luck.

 

Ed

 

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

Thanks for your quick and thorough replay. I have been leaning towards the Sherline machines but wanted to make sure I wasn't overdoing it (the grief I am going to get over cost will be mighty). While in some ways attractive, the modular aspect of the Unimat system made me uneasy: I would have preferred to be able to see how sturdy it is first and some of the configurations are completely unnecessary. I want to avoid falling into the Peter Principle with work-arounds, so it is time to settle on a milling machine/lathe soon. At least I can go into it now with a little more confidence.

 

Randy

[rtropp]

I use a mill for drilling also.  (Space is at a premium in my shop.) My difficulty with Sherline is that working the drill requires turning a wheel, a very finely tuned wheel, rather than pulling a lever as in a drill press. After a few holes, I find the wheel awkward, a pain for most drilling tasks.  It takes a lot of turning. Sherline does have this jiggly attachment that lets you lower the drill bit but it seems a bit kludgy and still a pain for repetitive hole drilling.

Richard

[wefalck]

As you have the mill, you fabricate an adapter for a hand-held drill that allows you to rise and lower it like on a drill press - the x-y-table than provides for co-ordinate drilling capability. Wasn't it Keith Aug on this forum, who showed some years ago such a gadget ?

 

The hand-wheel on the y-column is not very conveniently located for drilling operations, put personally I like the screw-feed for drilling tiny, sub-millimetre, holes, as it results in less drill breakage.

Edited December 15, 2021 by wefalck

[EdT]

Richard, I would urge you to look at the Sherline sensitive drilling attachment to make drilling with the mill easier.   If this is the "jiggly" attachment you refer to, I am surprised.  It is by far the most used device on my mill, allowing me to lower the drill by hand in a controlled, but still precise way.  Drilling using the Z-axis wheel is not a good idea.  Drilling pressure is difficult to control in this way.  It puts heavy force on the drill bit that often results in breakage of small drills.  The hand-controlled method is much better.  If you do not have the drilling attachment, the link below shows it.

 

https://www.sherline.com/product/1012-532-sensitive-drilling-attachment/

 

Ed

[rtropp]

I tried this a while ago with my current micro mill.  (In fact I think i still have it somewhere.) One problem for me was that I did not see a way to create a stop point for the drilling.  So, both accuracy and repeatability became a problem. Also, using the drilling attachment was not as comfortable, accurate as using a standard lever.

Probably just habit and preference but I found myself using my Proxxon whenever I had to drill multiple holes.

 

Thanks for the advice.

Richard 

[EdT]

You can create a stop point on the Sherline Mill by setting the Z-Axis height to the end of travel on the bit in the  sensitive drilling attachment.  For example, raise the head using the Z-axis wheel with the drilling attachment fully extended so the tip of the bit rests on the surface to be drilled, then lower the precise depth required on the Z-axis.  Sorry if I,m beginning to sound like a Sherline shareholder.

[Maury S]

Great tip Ed.

Maury

[michael mott]

Sent you a PM Ed

 

Michael

[michael mott]

On 12/13/2021 at 10:48 AM, EdT said:

The only gripe I have with Sherline is that the milling vise often makes me want to scream out loud. 

See my PM

 

Michael

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

Quick question about dimensions: The filling strakes are 6" thick but how high? Common planks are 3.5" thick but how wide? I'm sure they are somewhere, but I can't seem to find these numbers.

 

Thanks!

[rtropp]

Ed,

I had not thought of trying that.  I will give it a try on my current mill.

 

Michael,

do you have to use the sherline milling vise or can another be used?

Thanks,

Richard

[EdT]

Randy, the width of common planking is not specified, at least to my knowledge.  I believe common available widths would have been used. possibly in the 10-14" range.  Others may wish to comment on this. 

 

I have searched (briefly I admit) for a simpler vise that could be used on the mill and have purchased a couple that have not really fit the bill.  My need has not been pressing enough to do more than that, so I generally live with the Sherline vise.  The others I have could no doubt be adapted - more of a mounting task than anything else.  The fact that I have the vise permanently mounted on the rotating base, has seemed to compound the adjusting problems, but as I say, this is all more of an annoyance than an impediment.

 

By the way, thanks everyone for the likes and comments.

 

Ed

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

Finished the Lower Deck. I learned a lot but am glad my mistakes will be largely buried from view. Middle deck should be better. I ordered my lathe for the pillars- should be an adventure. Your book and log complement each other well and have been a big help so far.

 

Happy New Year,

 

Randy

 

Todd YA2.HEIC

Todd YA1.HEIC

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

I am trying to get things set up to fabricate by turned pillars. I just purchased a Proxxon DB250 wood lathe and am very new to this equipment so please have patience with my questions.

 

[1] In figure 9-48, you show a 5/32" diameter brass tube in the tailstock. This is to prevent splitting the wood. However, the tailstock to my lathe comes to a point. I do not believe Proxxon has a similar set up as you show. Is there an alternative way to protect the wood?

 

[2] Is that a clamp on your tool rest that is holding your bit (Figs 9-48 and 53)? My lathe has a simple rest, but no clamp. Do you have any suggestions?

 

[3] What is your bit made out of (Fig 9-50)?

 

These are my questions for now. I'm sure there will be more. Hopefully, I'm being clear.

 

Randy

 

 

[gjdale]

Randy,

 

Your lathe is a wood lathe, hence the rest. Ed uses a lathe designed for metal working, hence the “clamp”, which is the tool holder. These are two very different beasts. With wood turning lathes, you hold the tool by hand to work the piece. With metal turning lathes, the tool is usually held in a tool holder, although you can add a wood turning rest if you desire (Sherline for example offers this as an accessory).

[Randy Todd]

Grant-

 

Any ideas how I can set up my lathe to make these turned pillars? I have no experience here. I need some guidance.

 

Randy

[Randy Todd]

Grant (or Ed)

 

I also purchased the Proxxon MicroMill Mf70 37110. I got both because they seemed to have a small footprint (I have little space), looked simple and adequate to complete the YA project. Should I try to return these? If so, what would you recommend I purchase?

 

Thanks in advance for your help/advice,

 

Randy

[EdT]

Thanks, Grant, for answering Randy's questions.  I cannot add much more to what you have said, except to say the modeling projects of this complexity frequently involve solving problems like this one - as well as many others.  While I tried very hard in writing the books to make explanations useful to modelers of all levels and thus help draw more people into this level of the craft, it has not been possible to cover every contingency or answer every question that may arise.  Randy, I am sure a solution to this problem will emerge as you give it more thought.  A very acceptable and simple solution is to use plain square posts, since there is no direct evidence that turned pillars were used in the actual ship.  Alternatively, I am sure you could devise a  homemade device on the Proxxon lathe, as I did to solve the problem on my equipment.  The tool, itself, will not solve every problem.

 

As far as advice on return/replacement of your purchases, I cannot advise on that, but I will say that while a more sophisticated tool will certainly be more capable (and more costly) , the learning curve will be greater and the need for devising solutions to problems like this will not likely be reduced.

 

Ed

[gjdale]

Randy,

 

I have to agree with Ed - more sophisticated tools are more capable (and more expensive) buy aren’t the panacea to all your modelling problems. That said, I’m very biased towards the Sherline lathes and mills - they are a joy to use and do enable you to produce some excellent results - BUT - they also often require a good deal of thought about the process by which you achieve those results. For me, it is often the challenge of how to hold the workpiece for a particular operation that takes the most thinking. I often go searching through logs like Ed’s or Danny Vadas’ looking for ingenious solutions to these problems when they arise. I then try to replicate what they have done. Occasionally, I’ll come up with my own ideas too.

 

Only you can decide whether to return/replace your current tools, Should you decide to do so, my recommendation would be to look at the Sherline range. Yes, they are expensive, but as my dear old Dad often said, “quality is remembered long after price is forgotten”.

[EdT]

Thanks, again, for your comments on this, Grant.  Good advice.

 

Ed

[Randy Todd]

Thought I'd share something that has been working for me. To prevent debris and parts (and their retrieval), I made two deck-shaped drop clothes (out of a rag) and cut a slit up the middle (to allow placement of the pillars). It not only has saved me from having to fish fallen timbers from the hold, but the surface is easily vacuumed. Deck cover.HEIC

[Randy Todd]

Hi Ed,

 

Happy New Year!

 

I am getting close to adding the scuppers. Page 186 mentions the scupper locations are on drawing 1 but I can't seem to find them. Am I missing something?

 

Thanks in advance and hope all is well,

 

Randy

[Alex-Ks1]

OUTSTANDING WORK .... 

[EdT]

Hello Randy,

 

Seems like I neglected to show these on Drawing 1.  Apologies.  If you look closely at drawing 5, you will find small circles representing scuppers through the waterway between frames D and E, and 16-17.  The third pair are obscured on the drawing by other construction but should be located between frames 32 and 33.  I no longer have the model, so I cannot double check that, but in any event, these were located fairly arbitrarily in the model design.  I made these by drilling at a slight downward angle thru the waterway, then inserted small brass tubes shaped flush at both ends.

 

I am sure we would all appreciate your sharing some photos of your model.  Good luck.

 

Ed

[rwiederrich]

2 hours ago, EdT said:

I no longer have the model,

Ed....what became of her....if I may ask?

 

Rob

[EdT]

Thanks for asking, Rob.  The model is at Mystic Seaport.

 

Ed

[rwiederrich]

1 hour ago, EdT said:

Thanks for asking, Rob.  The model is at Mystic Seaport.

 

Ed

Fantastic.  I'd love to see her......but that is completely across the country from me.  Someday maybe.

 

I've been working at getting my Glory of the Seas loaned to local nautical museums myself.

 

Several museums have declined due to lack of floor space.

 

Glad folks are getting to see her first hand.

 

Rob