How to cut chamfers?

[CPDDET]

Wondering how others are cutting chamfers, I'm having a bit of on issue getting smooth flat chamfers at different angles. While I do have a burns saw, it doesn't have a tilt arbor and besides, most the time the pieces I need to chamfer are much to small for that anyway.  I suppose some type of jig used with a hand chisel might work but just cant seem to find an easy, reliable method. 

 

Anyone have a method their using that works well for them?

 

Dave

[Jaager]

I have the thought that with practice a high quality miniature block plane would produce a smooth and accurate bevel:

[gwish]

I agree with the post above. There are some quality miniature violin and instrument makers planes for sale that would do the job.

 

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/types-of-tools/planes/ibex-archtop-carving-planes/?mtm_source=google&mtm_medium=cpc&mtm_campaign=|+GOO+|+SHOP+|+NBR+|+AllProductsUSA&gad=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwpc-oBhCGARIsAH6ote8k5FM1ZSIXOeLHQJgpnKMuTwe2myVtyY8pmua7QYJY9EdipLC2B54aAs7zEALw_wcB#mz-expanded-view-853390225766

Edited September 28, 2023 by gwish

[Gregory]

@gwish

 

Thanks, you just cost me a hundred bucks..  Couldn't resist..😁

[glbarlow]

The Ibex planers are great. I have one, didn’t know there were so many variations. 

[Altduck]

15 hours ago, Gregory said:

@gwish

 

Thanks, you just cost me a hundred bucks..  Couldn't resist..😁

They sure are pretty little tools.

Which size did you get, and how did you decide?

[Jaager]

The Ibex Luthier planes are carving planes.  The blades are convex.  Specifically for a bevel, would not a flat plane level the desired surface?

Now,  for a hull, one of these looks like it has excellent potential. 

[Gregory]

2 hours ago, Altduck said:

They sure are pretty little tools.

Which size did you get, and how did you decide?

I got the little 8mm blade.

 

Want to see if it helps making molding strips and other details, and because it's hard to resist pretty little tools.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Gregory

[Dziadeczek]

Ibex planes are great. I use my 8 mm one for shaving the edges of planks (for spiling) for planking the hulls.

I got mine (used) years ago for cheap (about 5 or 8 bucks, I remember) on one of the ship models exhibits from one of the exhibitors.

You can get them used on Ebay or similar, very good, perhaps all you need is to sharpen the blade a bit, if necessary.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Dziadeczek

[Bob Cleek]

21 hours ago, Gregory said:

@gwish

 

Thanks, you just cost me a hundred bucks..  Couldn't resist..😁

Jewelry is getting very expensive these days!  

 

 

Bevels on straight edges can be easily cut freehand with a flat plane and a bit of practice or a shop-made jig to provide the angle, but the problem of bevels in ship building and modeling is that there are very few straight edges! Planking, of course, is where the most beveling has to be done and plank edges are very often curved and their bevels can often be "rolling" (i.e., the angle changes over the length of the edge.) A flat-bottomed plane will work on a convex curve if your are careful (using the flat-bottomed plane essentially as one would a spokeshave), but it won't do well on a concave curve because, depending on the amount of curve and the length of the plane sole, the heel and toe of the plane sole are going to "bridge" the curve and so lift the iron up form the working surface. 

 

What is needed is a set of small pattern-maker's spokeshaves. A basic set of spokeshaves will contain three different spokeshaves: 1) a flat blade with a flat bottom, 2) a flat blade with a rounded bottom, and 3) a rounded blade with a rounded bottom. These three will permit cutting straight and rolling bevels on straight and curved edges. (There are also spokeshaves with soles with other shapes such as curved iron edges for shaping round pieces such as wagon spokes from whence the tool gets its name.) There was once a small company called Aldon Products, P.O. Box 585, Detroit, Michigan 48224, which produced a beautiful set of pattern maker's spokeshaves pictured below.  In another MSW thread some time ago, I discovered Roger Pellet and I each had a set of these beautiful bronze and stainless planes. I've never encountered them elsewhere before or since. I believe the manufacturer has been out of business for over fifty years now and they seemed something of a unicorn these days. Amazingly, though, there are presently two Aldon miniature spokeshave sets offered on eBay U.S. right now! I briefly considered trying to buy both on spec, but decided to contribute the information as my gift to the MSW community.   Grab one fast!  https://www.ebay.com/itm/126108562639?hash=item1d5ca7f4cf:g:VyYAAOSwg5JlB2cy&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwAUu8LEzrj3XkZwixLDh%2B7kJCG1g8hjecPTrXDbZivA1eJFLE%2FzDmrU4a3b0ut4aMYi07VlWqJ7D7QN0%2BHxC1Rq9FwFWsDcPvroqe1IQaUGk3Lc6N0MN46bZrtrIrXDo0FMhPzWvBIl5f563W%2FgzO2YHHryZ0DR7VijXvL1Yn1XQEUVv0dain3K15X5EvWQCMg0ZvhaPw%2Bka6%2BHO2QAP800dsTQlCBIgpispX1nN%2FE%2FBAobCXa51ARDD%2Bw9fnuM%2BlA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6iE6dPbYg and https://www.ebay.com/itm/334983383832?hash=item4dfe90cb18:g:gqYAAOSwAh5kBK5q&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4LrEMbcpMI3ZiX2XFgBbG0M2py5EyXPo%2FZHwHj7oRC6epybp6nCf%2BbXnHqkYgYnbhhY2hVIt7vv9HPnBd0OdIlx1xx%2FEIoATRD7Zq3%2FUliuZXUuFU6ekz702p4946w1SdOdPsNGDq9fO83L%2BGoEAVbgIBDaaQXSl2ij8qzwDmWS1i1i0CVETOwp6KlisCoezf5Wq9%2BXTHJa1Uz8SeADitL1ZtPXgTxge4AUB6apHi8Hmh%2FZWUMnM5%2FM4D%2F0CFuj8L7Y8mNKqVYjOu95fzOg%2BVf%2FW9IPFrP%2BZoazoBY%2BS3mu7|tkp%3ABk9SR57y9tTbYg )  

Set of Three Miniature Vintage Aldon Products Solid Brass (bronze, actually) Spoke Shaves, Stainless 15/16" Blades, Detroit Michigan. The small planes are made of solid brass, 3 3/4" long with adjustable stainless blades 15/16" wide. One has a flat blade with a flat bottom, one has a flat blade with a rounded bottom and one has a rounded blade with a rounded bottom. This is a versatile set of spoke shaves that can be used for pattern making, model making, cabinet making, and instrument making. Photo credit: https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/mini-vintage-aldon-solid-brass-3863464343

 

I do not know of anybody who is manufacturing a set of small pattern maker's spokeshaves today. Perhaps one of the luthier's supply houses may, but I haven't found them. Lee Valley offers a very nice set of full-sized spokeshaves for around $320, but these are probably too large to really serve for miniature work. https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/spokeshaves/100613-veritas-spokeshave-set-and-roll 

 

 

Lee Valley offers a flat spokeshave in Veritas' line of miniature hand tools for about $45, but not a complete set. (Whether or not one considers the Veritas working miniature tools line as very well done collectable novelties or useful working tools is an open question that must be left to those who buy them.)  https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/miniature-tools/spokeshaves/71211-veritas-miniature-spokeshave?item=05P8401 $45

 

If the available spokeshaves are beyond a modeler's budget, as they certainly can be, a much lower-priced "modeler's plane" is always a better option for beveling than a chisel or hobby knife. Look for anything similar to the old cast iron Stanley "#100 series" planes. See: http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan11.htm#num100  Originals are collectable, but "users" may sometimes be had for a good price on eBay, or one can opt for the German-made Kunz replicas which are are perfectly servicable and sell for around $35.  https://www.amazon.com/s?k=kunz+plane&adgrpid=1330409633793008&hvadid=83150751536610&hvbmt=bp&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=43893&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=p&hvtargid=kwd-83150945519236%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=24665_13493338&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_7k7as92qis_p

 

 

 

 

 

At the bottom of the price spectrum is today's Stanley #101. (Not your father's Stanley by a long shot!) It is a folded sheet metal replacement for the old #101 modeler's plane that will only set you back around $12. Not much in the "pride of ownership" department if you are a tool wonk, but entirely serviceable and you'll probably be surprised at how often you end up using it for modeling tasks.. A properly sharpened and set plane is worth a thousand sheets of sandpaper.   

 

https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-12-101-Small-Trimming-Plane/dp/B00002X1ZC/ref=asc_df_B00002X1ZC?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80333166615611&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583932707228013&psc=1

 

Edited September 28, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[druxey]

All lovely tools and toys, but I think we have topic drift. The original question (unless I've misunderstood) is making a miniature chamfer on things like bitts, etc. A fine file or sanding stick does the trick. Is all!

[Bob Cleek]

1 hour ago, druxey said:

All lovely tools and toys, but I think we have topic drift. The original question (unless I've misunderstood) is making a miniature chamfer on things like bitts, etc. A fine file or sanding stick does the trick. Is all!

Thread drift? Moi?  

 

The original poster asked: 

 

 

     Wondering how others are cutting chamfers, I'm having a bit of on issue getting smooth flat chamfers at different angles. ...  I suppose some type of jig used with a hand chisel might work but just cant seem to find an easy, reliable method. 

     Anyone have a method their using that works well for them?

 

I'm not sure that a broader response is necessarily a "drift. He asked, "Anyone have a method their using that works well for them?" That sounds like an invitation to a pretty wide spectrum of answers. I think there's a world of difference between "make do" and "do best." We're always free to "cut corners" (especially in the case of bevels  ) and take other shortcuts when modeling. It's up to the individual to determine where their personal standard lies on the precision spectrum. I qualified that my post was addressing "best practices" at the outset.

 

 

There is a wide range of both bevels and modeling skills. I think that the difference in "crispness" which I find to be a reliable measure of the quality of scale workmanship is often determined by a shape's having been created by cutting rather than abrading. Each shaping method has its place, of course, but as I look at models I made decades ago, the difference between those made in my earlier "sandpaper period" and later when I came to use blades and scrapers more often is very apparent to me. If one can easily form a bevel with sandpaper or a file which is indistinguishable from one made with a cutting blade or scraper, the entire discussion becomes academic, of course.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Bob Cleek

[CPDDET]

44 minutes ago, Bob Cleek said:

Thread drift? Moi?  

 

The original poster asked: 

 

 

     Wondering how others are cutting chamfers, I'm having a bit of on issue getting smooth flat chamfers at different angles. ...  I suppose some type of jig used with a hand chisel might work but just cant seem to find an easy, reliable method. 

     Anyone have a method their using that works well for them?

 

I'm not sure that a broader response is necessarily a "drift. He asked, "Anyone have a method their using that works well for them?" That sounds like an invitation to a pretty wide spectrum of answers. I think there's a world of difference between "make do" and "do best." We're always free to "cut corners" (especially in the case of bevels  ) and take other shortcuts when modeling. It's up to the individual to determine where their personal standard lies on the precision spectrum. I qualified that my post was addressing "best practices" at the outset.

 

 

There is a wide range of both bevels and modeling skills. I think that the difference in "crispness" which I find to be a reliable measure of the quality of scale workmanship is often determined by a shape's having been created by cutting rather than abrading. Each shaping method has its place, of course, but as I look at models I made decades ago, the difference between those made in my earlier "sandpaper period" and later when I came to use blades and scrapers more often is very apparent to me. If one can easily form a bevel with sandpaper or a file which is indistinguishable from one made with a cutting blade or scraper, the entire discussion becomes academic, of course.

While sandpaper and files will work, I think they are perhaps the most difficult in attaining a crisp bevel that allows the greatest amount of glue area. 

Thank you all for some great ideas. I think this is just another task that takes time and practice to develop with sharp hand tools.

[JohnLea]

I bought this thing a while back.  Like most of my tools it has been rarely used if at all.

 

Seems to me that the blade could be replaced with a straight one.

 

[CPDDET]

40 minutes ago, JohnLea said:

I bought this thing a while back.  Like most of my tools it has been rarely used if at all.

 

Seems to me that the blade could be replaced with a straight one.

 

I considered something similar but thought it would limit me to 45 degree bevels. Seem like I rarely get a 90 or 45 when building my models. But vertais does make a very nice 45 bevel attachment for their plane. Tempting!

[CPDDET]

I have1/4, 1/8 and 1/16 chisels along with the dogleg ones from Stumac. I think I will stick with those for now and hopefully improve with practice.

Although a micro plane is definitely in my future. Christmas isn't far off and maybe Santa will be good to me.

[Roger Pellett]

When it comes to eye hand coordination I have always been at or near the bottom of the pack and neuropathy hasn’t improved things.  However.  Like many modelers, for miniature woodworking, I own a 1/8in and 1/16in chisel.  I seldom use them.  I find that a chisel with a wide blade is easier for me to control.  IF I was to cut a chamfer I would reach for my trusty Stanley yellow handle 3/8in chisel.  The wide blade is easier to roll as necessary and it is far less likely to wind up where I don’t want it to be.  Of course, keep the chisel sharp and if possible try to cut with the grain.

 

Roger