King Tiger Diorama by chadwijm6 - FINISHED - Airfix - 1/35

[chadwijm6]

While I'm waiting for paint to dry on my Sea King I thought I might have a go at my first tank. This will be a project to try and improve my weathering, so I intend to make this very worn and weathered.

 

I've bought some pigments, liquid ones from AK. And some German to i8tank colours from Vallejo.

 

 

The tank itself is a King Tiger, one of 6 I bought in a mystery Tank bundle. 

 

I've been doing a bit of research and it seems that the interior was generally an ivory colour. I'll likely take my own approach to detailing the guns etc. Black and white photos are hard to interpret for colours! That said I've found a couple of photos that I'll use for reference.

 

 

I've also found a video on YouTube that looks useful for the techniques to apply the camouflage.

 

I've done a bit of building so far and had a go with the pigments in the inside of the turret, where they won't be seen. I think I should have glossed it first.

 

 

[Darius359au]

The liquid pigment work well same as the rust ones you've got - little hint to make life easier wet the area your working on with some odourless thinner or which ever thinner your useing to break the surface tension and makes it easier to get the pigment to go where you want.

Ive added some photos one's a T34/85 thats just dirty and the others an extremely weathered Panther G ,(T34 is 1/16 and the Panthers 1/35)

Richard

[chadwijm6]

On 4/1/2024 at 10:31 PM, Darius359au said:

The liquid pigment work well same as the rust ones you've got - little hint to make life easier wet the area your working on with some odourless thinner or which ever thinner your useing to break the surface tension and makes it easier to get the pigment to go where you want.

Ive added some photos one's a T34/85 thats just dirty and the others an extremely weathered Panther G ,(T34 is 1/16 and the Panthers 1/35)

Richard

 

These are great, thanks.

 

I've made a bit more progress today, restarted the interior and then added a bit of detail. It really won't be seen but it feels wrong not to make some effort.

 

 

I've also started to paint the exterior underneath and behind the wheels. I'll do this in olive green on black primer so it's quite dark.

[CDW]

Following!

[chadwijm6]

Most of the build is done now so I've been priming. The PE parts supplied by Airfix went on well and so far the fit has been excellent. 

 

I'm really enjoying this build. Tanks are fun!

[chadwijm6]

Nice couple of hours with the airbrush this morning before the family wakes up

 

My first attempt at freehand camouflage on the wheels. 

 

Tracks next. I'm sticking with the supplied set by Airfix but it seems that they are transport tracks in this kit. Maybe on a future one I'll try some after market metal variety but as this is my first I'll keep it OOB.

 

I'm thinking I'll paint them in a gunmetal grey and then probably dry brush a bit with aluminium for wear, there seems to be a lot of conjecture about this being right or wrong on the net, and then see if I can start to get some rust and mud on it.

 

Edited April 6 by chadwijm6

[Egilman]

Your talking road wheels correct? Yes they are transport tracks, just wide enough they would fit on the rail cars without overhanging the sides...

 

First thing the idler wheel on all versions was pressed steel, it's rolling surface would be bare shiny steel.... The road wheels could be either pressed steel, pressed steel with a rubber tyre, or cast steel with a rubber tyre...

 

The easiest way to tell is the presence of the tyre.... it would be square shouldered and not shiny, there would be a steel bead affixed to the rim of the wheel to hold it in place... So you would have the flat surface of the tyre, and a square shoulder on the steel rim of the wheel... Pressed steel wheels wouldn't have that rim bead and would be curved right to the rolling surface....

 

What you have are late version pressed steel road wheels, the surface would be bare worn steel, light metallic grey unpainted...

 

And that fits with your choice of late war yellow, red-brown and forest green camo.... Brother Baker will probably be able to pin it down even better...

 

PS: the only German tanks with rust on their road wheel running surface? Destroyed tanks....

 

Edited April 6 by Egilman

[chadwijm6]

13 minutes ago, Egilman said:

Your talking road wheels correct? Yes they are transport tracks, just wide enough they would fit on the rail cars without overhanging the sides...

 

First thing the idler wheel on all versions was pressed steel, it's rolling surface would be bare shiny steel.... The road wheels could be either pressed steel, pressed steel with a rubber tyre, or cast steel with a rubber tyre...

 

The easiest way to tell is the presence of the tyre.... it would be square shouldered and not shiny, there would be a steel bead affixed to the rim of the wheel to hold it in place... So you would have the flat surface of the tyre, and a square shoulder on the steel rim of the wheel... Pressed steel wheels wouldn't have that rim bead and would be curved right to the rolling surface....

 

What you have are late version pressed steel road wheels, the surface would be bare worn steel, light metallic grey unpainted...

 

And that fits with your choice of late war yellow, red-brown and forest green camo.... Brother Baker will probably be able to pin it down even better...

 

 

Thanks @Egilman for the info. 

 

I'm a little confused though. This is what the scheme details say on the kit, I've highlighted the bit about the transport tracks. 

 

[Egilman]

Yeah, it's a very late war version, also see the other note right above the one you enclosed... The 9 tooth drive sprocket...

 

So, what this all means is, if you want to produce a historically accurate Tiger II of Panzer Abieltung, (battalion) 503 during the defense of Berlin in 1945, you need to make those changes with aftermarket products expressed in the note... Otherwise you will have a generic representative Pz.kfg VIB from 1945 on transport tracks...

 

For that transformation you will need a full set of combat pressed steel road wheels, a 9 toothed sprocket and workable combat tracks...

 

That's the Airfix 1/35th King Tiger.... ok...

 

Generic aftermarket, they don't make tracks and wheels specifically for the Airfix Kit...

 

So we go with...

Last production batch 18 tooth late type tracks...

https://quickwheelstore.com/1-35-quicktracks-t-35068-tracks-for-sd-kfz-182-tiger-ii-kgs-73-800-152-last-production-batch.html

9 tooth sprocket late pattern...

https://spruebrothers.com/trxtr35093-1-35-trex-disassembled-king-tiger-sprocket-9-teeth-late-type-pattern-2/

 

As far as the road wheels, in combat configuration she carried 40 of them {chuckle} the kit wheels are adequate just not enough of them....

 

There are other vendors and manufacturers out there those two links are just a sampling... And finding the road wheels in 1/35 is going to be a chore given all the 1/16th scale products out there...

 

Edited April 6 by Egilman

[chadwijm6]

4 minutes ago, Egilman said:

Yeah, it's a very late war version, also see the other note right above the one you enclosed... The 9 tooth drive sprocket...

 

So, what this all means is, if you want to produce a historically accurate Tiger II of Panzer Abieltung, (battalion) 503 during the defense of Berlin in 1945, you need to make those changes with aftermarket products expressed in the note... Otherwise you will have a generic representative Pz.kfg IVB from 1945 on transport tracks...

 

For that transformation you will need a full set of combat pressed steel road wheels, a 9 toothed sprocket and workable combat tracks...

 

That's the Airfix 1/35th King Tiger.... ok...

 

Generic aftermarket, they don't make tracks and wheels specifically for the Airfix Kit...

 

So we go with...

Last production batch 18 tooth late type tracks...

https://quickwheelstore.com/1-35-quicktracks-t-35068-tracks-for-sd-kfz-182-tiger-ii-kgs-73-800-152-last-production-batch.html

9 tooth sprocket late pattern...

https://spruebrothers.com/trxtr35093-1-35-trex-disassembled-king-tiger-sprocket-9-teeth-late-type-pattern-2/

 

As far as the road wheels, in combat configuration she carried 40 of them {chuckle} the kit wheels are adequate just not enough of them....

 

There are other vendors and manufacturers out there those two links are just a sampling... And finding the road wheels in 1/35 is going to be a chore given all the 1/16th scale products out there...

 

 

Amazing information! Thank you.

 

I'm thinking it's going to be generic then. But I have another 5 Airfix Tanks, different models, I bought a bundle from them, so maybe I'll spend more on one of them. But for this one I'll just build it as it is. I'm expecting it to end up far from perfect as I want to try the weathering products I bought, which I imagine will be a learning process 

 

But thanks again for the information. Very much appreciated 👍🏻 

 

[realworkingsailor]

A lot of Airfix’s 1/35 armour kits are reboxes from Academy. So any aftermarket designed for the corresponding Academy kit should also fit the Airfix kit.

 

 

Andy 

[chadwijm6]

So the original colour I painted the wheels in I think was too light/pink. I've resprayed them in a darker red/brown, Vallejo Armour brown 71.041. 

Much better I think. And I carried on and did the rest of the camouflage. The green is Vallejo again, their medium olive green 71.092. Both paints were part of a German tank camouflage set that I bought. 

 

I've also been out to the local hobby craft store and bought some materials to have a go at my first diorama. I bought some foam, a picture frame to use as a base, Sculptamold, DAS clay, Woodland Scenics Conifers, Brambles and their static grass kit. Not exactly sure what theme I'll attempt yet but I'd like to have a go at making a brick wall and putting some grass down, so I guess there'll be those in it somewhere. I've also bought some tamiya German tank personnel figures that are arriving this week. 

 

So my first tank suddenly also becomes my first go at a diorama and a first attempt at painting figures as well. I blame the fact that I've been looking at the other excellent modellers on here for tempting me to believe I can do this. Anything better than rubbish and I'll be delighted! 

 

[Baker]

On 4/6/2024 at 12:02 PM, Egilman said:

Brother Baker will probably be able to pin it down even better...

Brother Baker is little bit late, i think 🫣.

But is now following. 

[chadwijm6]

6 minutes ago, Baker said:

Brother Baker is little bit late, i think 🫣.

But is now following. 

Welcome!

[Old Collingwood]

That camo scheme  looks  excellent  - really  authentic,  love  the ideas   you  mentioned  about figures  etc.

 

OC.

[chadwijm6]

9 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said:

That camo scheme  looks  excellent  - really  authentic,  love  the ideas   you  mentioned  about figures  etc.

 

OC.

Thanks OC. I tried to vaguely follow the instructions but it's definitely more adlib than accurate. 

 

[Darius359au]

The paint schemes looking good ,there's no right or wrong way with the German ww2 vehicle camouflage! , there was a large variation in schemes in the field and the only consistent pattern was as it came from the factory ,and even that changed at the end ,the Panther I posted earlier is ,like i said, very late war under the worn whitewash ,it's base is red oxide primer ,instead of dunkelgelb, that's had patches of reed green and bands of light dunkelgelb which was a paint saving measure at the end.

I've just noticed a slight problem with the turret and I know it's too late to change it now so it's more a heads up than any thing ,the spare track hanger hooks and the tab's for the track pins to lock the track in place should be vertical instead of horizontal https://tankmuseum.org/tank_collection/tiger-ii

For a 1st build it's looking good👍

[Egilman]

Like Darius says there is no "right" Especially in very late war German camo... Looks fine to me... If anyone ask, answer with this question... "were you there" {chuckle} Usually shuts them up.... (but there are die-hards)

 

Looking good my friend, especially for a first build... I don't think I could do better...

[chadwijm6]

5 hours ago, Darius359au said:

The paint schemes looking good ,there's no right or wrong way with the German ww2 vehicle camouflage! , there was a large variation in schemes in the field and the only consistent pattern was as it came from the factory ,and even that changed at the end ,the Panther I posted earlier is ,like i said, very late war under the worn whitewash ,it's base is red oxide primer ,instead of dunkelgelb, that's had patches of reed green and bands of light dunkelgelb which was a paint saving measure at the end.

I've just noticed a slight problem with the turret and I know it's too late to change it now so it's more a heads up than any thing ,the spare track hanger hooks and the tab's for the track pins to lock the track in place should be vertical instead of horizontal https://tankmuseum.org/tank_collection/tiger-ii

For a 1st build it's looking good👍

Thanks Darius.

Of course they should be 🙄. Now I re-look at the instructions it's obvious but I can still see how I got it wrong, but honestly I should have realised that. Thanks for the heads up. At least I've got 5 more in the bundle I bought!! 😀 Thanks for the heads up though I could easily have seen that being a mistake I would have repeated!

 

 

2 hours ago, Egilman said:

Like Darius says there is no "right" Especially in very late war German camo... Looks fine to me... If anyone ask, answer with this question... "were you there" {chuckle} Usually shuts them up.... (but there are die-hards)

 

Looking good my friend, especially for a first build... I don't think I could do better...

 

Very kind, thank you. 

 

For me, what I've found is that finally, in my mid 50's l, I've found something 'arty' and creative that I'm not too bad at. At least I like what I'm producing. I can't draw or paint to save my life and have always found things like that frustrating. Modelling relaxes me. And on top of that I'm learning so much, not just modelling techniques but the history behind the models. Important history too.

 

In the world today so much is instant and short lived that it's therapeutic to do something that takes time, develops skills sets and is ultimately rewarding. The other thing that I didn't expect is the community. Particularly on this site. I take as much enjoyment from looking at other people's builds, not to mention inspiration, as I do building my own. Feedback is helpful, constructive and kind and you get a sense that everyone has your back and wants you to do well. It's a nice place to be.

 

Philosophical ramblings over.

Thank you all for your comments and likes. 

[Baker]

10 hours ago, Baker said:

Brother Baker is little bit late, i think 🫣.

But is now following. 

Breakfast with Tigers... 

Schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 received their first Tigers 2 mid-44. With textbook camouflage scheme and standard numbering.
At the end of September 44 they received 45 new Tigers 2 and were transferred to Hungary.
In the early 1945's the name was changed to sPzAbt.Feldhernhalle.
This unit was totally destroyed in Budapest. So Berlin 45... very unlikely

 

The 9 or 18 tooth sprocket.

You have the 18 tooth sprocket, this is the first (early) model of the sprocket.
Definitely build a mid 44 model (your camo is already good) Everything built later had 9 teeth and the simplified tracks.

 

 

 

[chadwijm6]

24 minutes ago, Baker said:

Breakfast with Tigers... 

Schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 received their first Tigers 2 mid-44. With textbook camouflage scheme and standard numbering.
At the end of September 44 they received 45 new Tigers 2 and were transferred to Hungary.
In the early 1945's the name was changed to sPzAbt.Feldhernhalle.
This unit was totally destroyed in Budapest. So Berlin 45... very unlikely

 

The 9 or 18 tooth sprocket.

You have the 18 tooth sprocket, this is the first (early) model of the sprocket.
Definitely build a mid 44 model (your camo is already good) Everything built later had 9 teeth and the simplified tracks.

 

 

 

 

Thank you for the research Patrick. Very helpful. 

 

If it's breakfast with Tigers then I guess I should get some Frosties (For the non-Brits Tony the Tiger, the cartoon character associated with the cereal, thinks they're Grrrreat!)

[Egilman]

There you go Brother Baker is the expert on German Armor...  I'm just a bit player....  Well done sir... I knew you would track it down...

 

So the kit is using a fictitious historical location as well... Happens all too often...

[chadwijm6]

2 hours ago, Baker said:

Breakfast with Tigers... 

Schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 received their first Tigers 2 mid-44. With textbook camouflage scheme and standard numbering.
At the end of September 44 they received 45 new Tigers 2 and were transferred to Hungary.
In the early 1945's the name was changed to sPzAbt.Feldhernhalle.
This unit was totally destroyed in Budapest. So Berlin 45... very unlikely

 

The 9 or 18 tooth sprocket.

You have the 18 tooth sprocket, this is the first (early) model of the sprocket.
Definitely build a mid 44 model (your camo is already good) Everything built later had 9 teeth and the simplified tracks.

 

 

 

 

So maybe for my diorama I should be thinking Budapest 🤔

 

If I may ask a question gents, I'm just doing the tracks and I'm wondering what colour to paint them before weathering. I was thinking gun metal grey. Or would a non metallic grey be more appropriate?

 

 

[Darius359au]

2 hours ago, Baker said:

Breakfast with Tigers... 

Schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 received their first Tigers 2 mid-44. With textbook camouflage scheme and standard numbering.
At the end of September 44 they received 45 new Tigers 2 and were transferred to Hungary.
In the early 1945's the name was changed to sPzAbt.Feldhernhalle.
This unit was totally destroyed in Budapest. So Berlin 45... very unlikely

 

The 9 or 18 tooth sprocket.

You have the 18 tooth sprocket, this is the first (early) model of the sprocket.
Definitely build a mid 44 model (your camo is already good) Everything built later had 9 teeth and the simplified tracks.

 

 

 

There are a few photo's of  koniegstiger's in berlin but they are Schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 503  ,so im thinking they've been confused with the heer Schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 there's no real clear images of the camouflage they had though  https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/tiger2/kingtiger-somewhere-in-berlin-april-1945/

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/tiger2/tiger-2-tank-6/

 

Richard

Edited April 10 by Darius359au

[chadwijm6]

9 minutes ago, Darius359au said:

There are a few photo's of  koniegstiger's in berlin but they are Schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 503  ,so im thinking they've been confused with Schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 there's no real clear images of the camouflage they had https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/tiger2/kingtiger-somewhere-in-berlin-april-1945/

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/tiger2/tiger-2-tank-6/

 

Here is the actual tank, number 233 in Budapest.

 

[Baker]

41 minutes ago, chadwijm6 said:

Here is the actual tank, number 233 in Budapest

With the later style sprocks and tracks 😇

[Baker]

57 minutes ago, Darius359au said:

There are a few photo's of  koniegstiger's in berlin but they are Schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 503  ,so im thinking they've been confused with the heer Schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 there's no real clear images of the camouflage they had though  https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/tiger2/kingtiger-somewhere-in-berlin-april-1945/

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/tiger2/tiger-2-tank-6/

 

Richard

There were indeed Tiger 2  tanks in Berlin.

Unit? 

[Baker]

Private Baker and his Tiger 2

La Gleize, Belgium 1991

[Darius359au]

3 hours ago, Baker said:

There were indeed Tiger 2  tanks in Berlin.

Unit? 

schwere ss panzer abetilung 503 ,the links in my post show 2 koneigstigers from ss503  ,it was schwere ss panzer abetilung 103 but the unit was redesignated 503 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/103rd_SS_Heavy_Panzer_Battalion

 

Richard

 

 

[Egilman]

Just in case anyone is interested....

 

Unit History of Schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 103.

 

This unit was initially established as II. Battalion of 11. SS-Panzer-Regiment in July 1943. It was first deployed in anti-partisan duties in Croatia in July and took part in the disarmament of an Italian tank regiment in August. During September it then spent September training with the captured tanks and assault guns, before they were once again employed as infantry against the partisans.   It wasn’t until February 1944 that they received their first Tiger I-E tanks for training after being moved back to Germany. They received specialist training at Paderborn during February and March. The Tigers were re-assigned to another unit and the battalion was moved to the Netherlands to continue their training with some old Panzer I tanks.

 

In May 1944 the trained crews were transferred to the 101. and 102. Schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilungs. The battalion received six more Tiger tanks on 26 May 1944 to continue their training. Another four tanks were received on 22 August, but were quickly handed over to 301. Schwere Panzer-Abteilung Funklenk (Radio-control). The battalion immediately started retraining for the Tiger II.

 

They receive the first four Tiger II tanks in October 1944. They continued to train and received more Tiger II tanks up until the end of January 1945.

 

During this time they are redesignated 503. Schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung. 

 

On 28 January they detrained in Pomerania and were soon thrust into combat against the Soviets. They fought in the area around Arnswald until forced to withdraw on Zachan in mid February.   Some of the battalion was sent to Danzig on 17-18 February. The trains were heavily attacked by the Soviets and the battalion were forced to detrain on a number of occasions.   Other elements of the battalion ended up supporting the 5.Jagerdivision during a Soviet attack around Reetz. By 12 March they are operating with I. battalion of the 7 Grenadier-Regiment around Groß Mishau.  The rest of the battalion arrived in the Danzig Pocket on 22 February 1945. Their first engagement was around Stargard. On 7 March the Soviets launched a massive attack against the pocket. Two Tiger II, one Panzer IV, a StuG and an 8.8cm Flak 36 gun manage to destroy 57 of the 80 tanks attacking, but the Soviets were undaunted and continued the attack.

 

Soviet attacks carried on throughout March and the Tiger II tanks face off against their Soviet counter part the JS-II heavy tank during many encounters. Later in the month the 503. Schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung elements in Danzig support the 11. SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadierdivision “Nordland”. In early may most of the crews in Danzig were transported back by sea to Swinemünde to rejoin the rest of the battalion around Berlin.   

 

During April the rest of the battalion fought a number of defensive battles to hold off Soviet thrusts towards Berlin. In one engagement near Bollersdorf, on 19 April 1945, Tiger II tanks under SS-Oberscharführer Körner destroyed an assembling armoured brigade of JS-II and T-34/85 tanks (a company of JS-II tanks and approximately 100 T-34 tanks).   By 22 April the battalion has retreated back to Berlin and were engaged in heavy street fighting.   On 3 May the remaining troops, after failing to breakout of the Soviet encirclement, are taken prisoner near Ketzin. Those few crews still in the Danzig pocket surrendered on 9 May 1945.

 

So yes, it is possible that there were Tiger II's in Berlin in the final days of the war...

 

(Uunabashedly stolen from the Flames Of War website)

Edited April 10 by Egilman