HMS Echo by Hamilton - 1:48 - Admiralty Models - cross-section

[hamilton]

Thanks OC

 

Christian - I'm not sure...but I suppose I'll find out...and I'll try to be conscious of this as I go....thanks!

hamilton

[hamilton]

A small update - not much time this past week for modelling, unfortunately, but I have a short break from work over the weekend, so hopefully I'll be able to make some progress. Today, I spent a very short time putting together a simple jig for taking vertical measurements - it's just the profile drawing adhered to a piece of 3/4" plywood with a batten clamped along the line marking the bottom of the keel. I made some tick strips out of card, but I think I will take a different approach to transferring these marks - I have a number of right angle plates that I made from 1/8" acrylic some time ago and the taller of these can be used to transfer vertical measures to the model - instead of using tick strips on the drawing, I will use 1/4" masking tape which can then be fixed to the right angle plate itself - perhaps a more stable way of transferring the measures, but we'll see how it goes - I'm going to try to mark and file out the notches for the sweep port sills and lintels this weekend using this method. 

hamilton

[allanyed]

Your idea of using a stiffer material is a great idea.  I have used my machinist squares similar to your use of right angle acrylic plates.  Looking forward to your progress.

Allan

[hamilton]

Thanks Alan - yes, this seemed like a much better approach than trying to line up tick strips. It'll be a little tricky as the model progresses, and I may need to modify the framing squares to allow me to continue using this method as I work aft - the framing square that I built from the Admiralty templates is too wide for me to be able to slide the acrylic squares in back of the frame for transferring marks. I'll see if I can puzzle this out over the weekend as I try to get my first frame raised. One thing I will definitely need to do is mark out the station lines as verticals on both the disposition of frame and profile drawings, so I'm sure I'm correctly laying the tape strips. This wasn't necessary for the deadflat frame as there is a little reference for it on the drawing itself, but it will be much better to mark them all out as verticals to ensure the reference lines are correct.

 

In the meantime, I spent a bit of time last night testing the method and seeing if I could set up the deadflat frame with accuracy. Using the vertical measurement jig and some 1/2" masking tape (turned out I didn't have any more 1/4" stuff, which I think would be better), I took measures for the upper & lower deck beams at side, the height of breadth line and the design waterline. I then just peeled this tape off the jig and carefully lined it up with the edges of the square at the bottom and along one side - repeated for the port side square and that was that. The port and starboard squares were lined up with the height of breadth line on the drawing fixed to the building board and then clamped in place.

 

In the photos below, I've set the frame up and clamped the fore and aft framing squares and the lateral squares. I found it useful then to take a tick strip with the lines marked out and used this to test the port & starboard symmetry of the frame  and make minor adjustments to its positioning before final clamping. What you see in the final shots below is the frame set up on the building board ready to be marked out for the various lines noted above. The deadflat 1 frame needs also to be marked out for the sweep port notches on its aft face. In fact there are, I think, only 4 frames total that don't need to be notched out for sweep ports, gun ports and/or scuppers.

 

A brief observation - the process of constructing frames has really re-oriented my focus and attention in modelling. The necessity to approach each component with care and thought for its relations is so much more on the surface of things than I've experience in my work on model kits, where I feel like I lag in conscientiousness here and there where the kit manufacturer has done the work for me....Even with my scratch Bluenose there were a couple of "auto-pilot" moments where I was leaning much more on the documentation supplied by MS for their kit, and where I felt I could fudge things without any overall bad effect. Here, there's no fudging things! It has to be right or it's not going to work - it's a lot of pressure, but it feels like there's a lot of learning happening too, which is fun.

 

Here are some photos - I hope to have the first frame raised by the end of the weekend - I just need to mark it out, trunnel the joints, work on the keel notch to ease the fit, and it'll be ready to go......deep breath....

hamilton

Edited May 17 by hamilton

[hamilton]

One last update for today. I used the markings on the tape strips attached to the right angle plates to mark out the lines on the front face of the deadflat frame. I then cut a tick strip and marked the lines on it from the profile drawing and checked against the marks on the frame. With a very small adjustment on the starboard side, the markings were nice, even & symmetrical. I then unclamped the frame and extended these marks across the face of the frame using a straight edge, and then extended the lines around the frame, so each line is marked out on all sides.

 

I still need to add trunnels to the futtock joints, which should be interesting - the joints are such a tender spot that I'm not sure how to approach it in terms of supporting the frame so it doesn't break under even the controllable pressure of hand drilling....My current idea is to put the frame in my bench vice so the outside edge of the frame is just above the jaws and going for it from there....I have some cast-off futtocks that i made while practicing my scroll saw work so I might just glue up a couple of those just to see how it feels and how it goes....I guess I'm not in any rush!

hamilton

Edited May 18 by hamilton

[hamilton]

So I may have been pre-emptive, but I decided to raise the deadflat frame on the keel today. Doing so took quite a bit of finessing and was definitely aided by the deadflat 1 frame when it came to final positioning.

 

The whole endeavour was slowed by the fact that I broke not one but both of the frames while adding the trunnels, and had to reset the futtocks and in one case re-make one of the chocks - which I did using the method suggested by Greg which worked way better for fit - still a bit of adjusting to do, but not as much as when I was just cutting them from the patterns on the frame drawings....

 

For mounting, the frame was merely glued to the keel assembly with PVA, which I will let cure for 24 hours before securing the seating with a length of brass rod - this will be invisible under the keelson, so I'm not going to treat it in any way, just use it for structural support.

 

I lined up the frame along the reference lines on the lateral framing squares and clamped these in place. I then clamped the forward square along the centre line (I etched a centre line on the acrylic base and vertical support for certainty)and then clamped the frame to the aft framing square.

 

Once this was done, I inserted some 2mm spacers (scrap basswood) between the two frames and used a length of 2mm basswood for a bracing piece at the top. This is only glued to the aft edge of the deadflat frame but clamped between the 2 frames to secure it. I was quite please not only with the seating of the frame, but with the alignment of the outside edges of these first two frames. I will be adding these horizontal braces to the tops of the frames as I go for structural support and to ensure symmetry and will saw the centre portions flush and sand down the remaining material flush with the frames when I fair the cross-section for planking. The bracing pieces you see further down the frame are not glued and will be removed once the glue is set and I'm ready to install deadflat 1, which I will do after completing frame 1 forward.

 

Any comments, tips or feedback on this process are always appreciated. Thanks and bye for now

hamilton 

[hamilton]

A final update - deadflat 1 has now also been raised, after notching it out on the aft face for the sweep port sills. Here are a couple of shots to round out the set....moving on to frame set 1 next....think I will continue to do these in pairs as long as that continues to make sense....

hamilton

[druxey]

All looks fair and square!

[hamilton]

Thanks Druxey! We'll see how the rest of them go......frame 1 F/A is on the go now and hope to finish on the weekend....been fun so far

hamilton

[hamilton]

Wow - so I guess time has gotten away with me a little here....though with good excuse - was teaching a summer course and this occupied quite a bit of time through May/June and then once that was done, I spent some time on the house and garden - felling and disposing of an old cypress tree and constructing a new fence around our front yard. With these "serious" tasks out of the way, I spent a bit of time continuing with the second layer of lower hull planking on my Bellona, which is progressing quite slowly, since this is a part of ship modelling that I do not really enjoy - perhaps because, though I understand it in principle, and have followed many procedures detailed by some pros both here and elsewhere, my results are never great and the planks seem to want to run in insane ways - I'm beginning to think that this is down to either over-fairing or under-fairing of the bulkhead frames and I can't figure out which......

 

But anyway, this is a different log, so I should save my planking woes for the Bellona pages....in any case, though I mentioned above that I hoped to finish frame set 1 at the end of May, these frames are still in process. I thought I had completed 1 forward, but then realised that I assembled it with the second futtocks turned the wrong way on the first futtocks. I thought I had corrected this, but it turned out I made exactly the same mistake when I was trying to "correct" it from the first time!! This time, I managed to get it right (at least orientation wise) and have glued up the elements of 1 forward, and am now just waiting for the glue to fully cure before finishing the frame up and installing it on the keel.

 

The second futtock of frame 1F leans back slightly - about 1/32" at scale. To achieve this, I placed the frame on the assembly template with the notched chocks facing downwards. I then ran a small 1/32" thick batten along the line on the body drawing that marks the joint between the futtocks - this propped the joint-end of the futtock up while its top end rested on the drawing. The photos below show what I mean. 

 

In the second photo, you'll notice that the chock is standing proud of the frame at its lower end - this will be corrected once the glue is fully cured.

 

I'm going to be heading back east next week to visit my folks, so will once again be away from the bench, but if I can carrve out some more time today and tomorrow I can hopefully finish up 1F at least - the components of frame 1 aft are cut and need a bit more refinement before assembly and it's unlikely I'll be able to get to it before I get back home.

 

In any case, enjoy the photos, basic as they are, and happy modelling

hamilton

Edited July 6 by hamilton

[hamilton]

I finally got frame 1F right, I think - after constructing, deconstructing and reconstructing it 3 times! It has not yet been fixed to the keel, as there is still a bit more work to do - cutting notches for the sweep port sills.

 

To mark these out, I transferred markings for the sills from the sheer plan (which shows their heights) to the frame drawing (which doesn't). This allows me to take an initial location from the plans, which can then be confirmed/corrected by setting up the frame on the keel and using a tick strip to ensure consistency with the notched face of the aft deadflat frame. I have now marked, but not notched out, these elements - the last before instaklling the frame permanently on the keel. I'm out of town and away from the workshop at the moment, so this will have to wait - but the elements of frame 1 aft are now laid out on the building board waiting for me to come home and once that's done I will mount both frames of the set at the same time. Frame 1 aft has the merit of not having any fiddly elements to it - no shifted or cast futtocks and no gunports or sweep ports to account for - so it's just a matter of refining the futtocks and chocks, assembling and mounting it.

 

Here are some photos - enjoy and happy modelling

hamilton

[hamilton]

Got back home yesterday and used the east-west jet lag to complete and mount frame 1F in the peace of the early morning - a great time to be out in the workshop with a hot coffee.

 

I dry fit the frame in place and used a small length of 1mm x 4mm walnut from the Bellona build to mark off the height of the sweep port sills in line with the aft deadflat frame. Checking these against the marks transferred from the sheer plan onto the body plan showed that the measures were spot on. I used a couple of triangular needle files to refine the notches and then mounted the frame.

 

I had already attached a batten between the toptimbers of the aft deadflat frame - this was dimensioned according to the wider gap between DA and 1F that accommodates the sweep port, while I used a 2mm thick piece of scrap wood between the floor of DA and the cross-chock/first futtocks of 1F - this helped maintain the slight (approx. 2mm) lean aft of the second futtocks of 1F.

 

The floor/futtocks of frame 1 aft are cut and need a bit of refinement, and I need to make the chocks for them as well, but since I just finished my 1 major home improvement task of the summer (a new fence around our front yard) and since the Admiral has been too pre-occupied with her business lately to invent other tasks for me, I hope to have 1A mounted on the keel by mid-week. It is a simple frame with no cast or shifted timbers and no need to notch out for ports or scuppers, so it will be considerably more straightforward than 1F was.

 

Happy modelling and enjoy the photos! If the first photo makes the frames look like they're sitting a little squiffy, blame this on the unsteady hand of the photographer not the attentiveness of the modeller - though in this case they are the same person...

hamilton

Edited July 14 by hamilton

[druxey]

Looking good so far. The scores for the sills are nicely positioned. You may wish to clean out the inner corners with a very sharp blade, or the sills may not seat properly later on.

[hamilton]

yes, Druxey - this is easier to see in the photos than on the model - there is a definite roundness to the inside corners that needs correcting...fortunately the files are small enough to get in there...added to the lengthening list!!

hamilton

[hamilton]

Frame set 1 is now complete and installed. Frame 1-aft was very straightforward - the last such frame for a while....(see photos below)

 

I feel like constructing the first 4 frames, while challenging, is kind of a like a tutorial to get you used to the process - with a couple of little quirks thrown in (like the cast toptimber of frame 1 forward). From here, though, things seem to get much more difficult, with a much more significant and complex cast to frame 2-forward and frame 3-aft and the gunport to manage between these....I spent today making templates for the components of frame set 2 - using 11.5" stock for the toptimbers of the forward frame to accommodate the cast aft. 

 

It's a bit of a mystery to me how to achieve the cast....I had thought I could do this using the belt sander, but given the curvature of moulded dimension of the frame, this would be very difficult to get an even result in the cast along the sided dimension.....my feeling is that taking a template of the sided dimension from the disposition of frame drawing and having at it with some sanding blocks will likely be the way to go....I may clamp the part in the bench vice with the sided dimension facing upwards to make the process a little easier, but I am open to any and all suggestions on how to approach this......

 

In any case - there's other work to do before turning to these cast toptimbers so I'll dig into that before facing this challenge! Bye for now

hamilton

[druxey]

Cast toptimbers? Cut the pieces out of a piece whose thickness is the overall width of the timber as seen from the side. Trace the side's shape on this to see where parts of the timber need cutting away.

[hamilton]

Thanks Druxey - it's more the actual cutting away that is giving me the nerves.....but the plans and practicum, in addition to Vol 1 of the Swan series have taken a lot of the mystery out of things - I think in this instance it's more that a lack of practical experience at this approach to ship modelling makes it seem really daunting - I've decided to cut a couple of extra top timbers to practice on and get a feel for how to achieve the proper result

hamilton

[hamilton]

Both frames in frame set 2 have now been assembled and it remains only to mark/cut out notches for the gunport sills and the scupper. This was a challenging process with the cast toptimber of framer 2F, but in the end it was not quite as difficult as I feared it would be and I'm very happy with the results. I do want to take a bit of time to outline the process...

 

The first step was to transfer some reference marks from the disposition of frame drawing to the frame drawing, using tick strips to measure off and square these up. Horizontals were drawn across the frame drawing to ensure symmetry athwartships. I then clamped the frame components in place on the drawing and transferred the marks to the outside and inside edges of the toptimber.

 

I then cut a template from a printout of the dispotion of frame drawing - actually 2 to tack onto the outside and inside edges of the frame, being careful to orient them correctly! These were tacked with rubber cement and the areas to be cut down marked onto the frame piece. This was a little finicky since the disposition of frame drawing does not accout for the outward curvature of the frame itself, resulting in templates that are short compared to the toptimber piece itself. This was not too difficult to correct for, but required a lot of back and forthing from plans to part. The area to be cut was marked out on both inside and outside edges.

 

I then clamped the piece to a slab of 3/4" ply and, using a #11 blade stated gradually removing the wood by making a cut down to the line, slicing wood off carefull edgewise from the face of the piece to that cut and then using sanding block and file to clear out the excess material. I did a little bit at a time, following the gradual shallowing of the cut and then sanded the surface down smooth. 

 

To cut the other side, I glued a small strip of basswood of an appropriate thickness to the plywood slab to accomodate the cutaway I made previously and to straighten the piece so I could remove material on the other side using the same technique described above. This took a bit of time and care, but worked out ok in the end. And now I have my first properly cast toptimber! 

 

If I can get a bit of time tomorrow I'll notch the frame out for the elements described above and then raise the frames on the keel....fun times!

 

Enjoy the photos and happy modelling

Edited July 21 by hamilton

[hamilton]

A question for @druxey if you have a moment.....

 

The scupper blocks that are inset between frames 3F and 3A and between frames 4A and 5F - I'm assuming that these should stand proud of the outboard edge of the frames to allow them to be flush with the main wale....but how are the inboard sides treated? I'm guessing that the pump dale scupper inboard will be covered by the pump dale itself, but how about the "regular" )(not sure how to designate this) scupper? This is a long way off in the build, but working on frame set 3 has put it in my mind.....

hamilton

 

[hamilton]

Frame set 2 is now complete and raised on the keel. Frame 2 aft is shortened in line with the gunport and also contains the aft notch for the scupper block (to be added later), so reference lines were drawn for these and the frame was notched out for the scupper block. 

 

I added a batten across the aft face of frame 2F at the level of the lower edge of the lower gunport sill and used this to align frame 2A. It will also be useful for bracing the frames when the time comes to remove the upper part of the toptimber to open up the gunport. I won't do this until after I've raised frame 3F, since this one is subject to the same treatment. 

 

One photo below shows the notches for the scupper block - the photo makes the it seem out of alignment, but I promise you it is not....

 

Altogether this is a very fun build. I have been really intimidated by the framing process - having observed others do it so well....but it is a really fun challenge so far - though maybe talk to me when it comes to the deck framing, which seems an even trickier business than this!

 

Bye for now

hamilton

Edited July 25 by hamilton

[hamilton]

Frame set 3 is now complete and installed on the keel. Together, frame 2F and 3A define the gunport and I've also removed the tops of the toptimbers on 2A and 3F to open this port - the ends of the timbers still need some refining (and all frames need to be completed) before installing the gunport sills and completing the framing of this feature. The work is not perfect! But it has been a lot of fun! 

 

I had been dreading crafting the cast toptimber of frame 3A, but in the end (and given the experience of making 2F which has a more subtle cast aft) it was not that difficult. I made 4 templates from copies of the disposition of frame and fixed these to both inboard and outboard edges of each toptimber with rubber cement. I then marked the portion of the toptimber to be cut away, tested for symmetry and used the same method described above for 2F. In the end, this one ended up actually being a little more straightforward since 2F is cast in more of a subtle "S" curve, while this one is cast out from the bottom edge and the top part is more or less a straight run. The trickiest part was refining them for symmetry and this was less tricky than it was very exacting a slow going.

 

I've cut out all the components of frame set 4 as of this morning, and will start refining and assembling them over the next couple of days. We're heading out to the cabin for a couple of weeks of Gulf Island relaxation - beach combing, swimming, paddle boarding, reading and visiting with friends - a nice break from the city but I know I'll be excited to come back to the bench! I have a week more vacation when we return and then it's back to work - I'm hoping to have the framing done by the time work starts up again, but we'll see.....

 

Bye for now and enjoy the photos

hamilton

[druxey]

Well done so far. I often find I dread certain making certain parts because I over-think the process. When it comes to actually making them, it usually goes better than I expected. Sounds like that was the case with your cast toptimbers.

 

Enjoy your vacation and safe travels!

[hamilton]

Lots of scrolling on this page!! Hope this post will push the log to page 3 - I imagine people are getting sick of scrolling, as I am.....

 

In any case a final post before we head out on holiday - just a quick one to show frame set 4 completed and raised on the keel. These two frames were very straightforward, though I wish I had added the taper to the toptimber before assembling the frame - I'll do this with 5-aft which has a similar taper. The only other feature is a notch filed into the aft face of frame 4-aft for the pump dale scupper. There was some difficulty getting these symmetrical port and starboard, but in the end they went ok - we'll see much later in the fitting out stage....

 

In the meantime, here are a couple of photos of the model as it stands. I head back to full time work on Aug. 15, and I'm hoping to be able to complete the framing before then - assembling and mounting frame set 5, adding the gunport and sweep port sills, installing ribands along the toptimbers and making and installing the keelson. I will then be taking a break from this build - hard to say how long, but I think it's time I returned to the Bellona for a while - she's been neglected in the excitement of making frames and I know that once I get through the lower hull planking the real fun can finally begin.

 

Hope all are well and bye for now

hamilton

[hamilton]

Just now, hamilton said:

Hope this post will push the log to page 3

 

It didn't!!

[Ronald-V]

This one maybe? 😄

 

 

(edit: nope 🥲)

Edited July 27 by Ronald-V

[Nearshore]

Just found this build log. What an awesome job you are doing. Can't wait to see the progress. 

 

  Nearshore

[hamilton]

Thanks for trying Ronald! And thanks for dropping in Nearshore! It looks a little rough compared to others, but I'm very happy with the results so far.

hamilton

[Knocklouder]

I am no help at 58 but it will turn at 60 lol.

  Just dropped by to see what your up to, looking good.

Bob M          

Edited July 27 by Knocklouder

[hamilton]

Back from holiday now and back at the bench both yesterday and today to finish up the final frames - frame set 5. These were mostly straightforward except the toptimber of frame 5 aft is shifted forward 1.5" - not difficult to achieve with some shims under the frame. The only other features of these frames are a notch on the forward face of 5-forward to match the one on 4-aft for the pump dale scupper and a fore/aft tapering of the top of the toptimber of 5-aft. 

 

The final stage of the framing of the cross-section has now bee reached - installing the sills on gunports and sweep ports, inboard & outboard fairing of the frames, installing the the keelson and temporary ribands along the toptimbers. I am going to be finishing the model, but I'm not sure whether to do the inside edges gunport and sweep port frames now or later. Makes some sense to do them now, before laying any planking, but maybe there's merit to doing it later on? 

 

I do have the practicum for fitting out the cross-section, but it isn't possible any longer to order the wood package as pre-milled sheets and strips. I do have a Byrnes thickness sander and micro table-saw, and have a stock of unmilled 2" x 3" lengths (30") of boxwood, as well as the wood list that was posted on the now-defunct Admiralty Models website. I invested in a thin-kerf blade for my 10" table saw, so I think all I need is a good set of digital callipers and I can mill the wood necessary for the fitting out. There is quite a bit leftover of the wood supplied in the framing package, as well, so....we'll see how things progress. At any rate, when I complete the components noted above I'll be going back to Bellona for a while - at least until I finish the second layer of hull planking and clean up a few things from earlier in that build. I may return to Echo then, as it has been a lot of fun so far. Confidence building for a fully framed model of a complete ship - ideally I would love to build a 1:48 fully framed version of the HMS Blandford, which I built about a decade ago from the rather poor Corel kit....but my lack of drafting knowledge beyond some rudiments is a real obstacle....

 

In any case - here are the pics - enjoy and bye for now

hamilton

[hamilton]

Minor update re - fairing the frames. As can be seen from the photos above, there's quite a bit of fairing to do on my cross-section. I think that much of this could have been circumvented by completing all the frames and checking them for fairness prior to installation, but....

 

So far I have been sanding inboard and outboard since this past Sunday and the work continues. Fairing seems both easier and harder with a fully framed model. On the one hand fairness is much easier to gauge since the frames are so close to one another, making it much easier to identify where the trouble spots are. At the same time, it is not possible to just grind into the frames and care needs to be taken not to dislodge them either from the keel (which has happened now once) or from the battens at the toptimbers (which has happened several times) or to break off a futtock (as also happened once)....so there's a balance to be found between the elbow grease necessary to actually get wood and a light enough touch so as not to damage or dislodge the frames....

 

I'm working largely with three sanding sticks - a 4" square one, a 1" round one and a 2" flat one - all with 100-grit sandpaper. I've also cut some 2" x 3" sheets of sandpaper at 100, 250 and 400 grit for finishing. There were a few placed both inboard and outboard where I used my Dremel with a drum sander to sand down frames where they were standing significantly proud. I was very nervous about using the rotary tool, but in the end it proved quite easy and safe for removing excess wood quickly and along one frame at a time without touching the adjacent frames. 

 

There is still more fairing to do, but I hope that by the end of the weekend I will have completed the final components of the initial framing of the cross-section - namely, the keelson, exterior ribanbs and the the top timber extensions for frames 2-A and 3-F above the gunport.

 

No photos today since the work is not yet done. But soon...

hamilton