Salmson 2 A.2 by ccoyle - FINISHED - WAK - 1/33 - CARD - in markings of aircraft flown by Capt. Arthur J. Coyle, 1st Squadron, US Air Service, Autumn 1918

[ccoyle]

49 minutes ago, Jsk said:

That wing root cutout seems to be a rather obvious flaw.

 

I can't say. Just because I can't figure it out doesn't mean that the designer didn't have a plan -- he just didn't communicate the plan very well!

[ccoyle]

Lower wings mated to fuselage. This crate is taking up some real estate!

 

[ccoyle]

I know I said that this project would go on hold once the Speeljacht had arrived, but this one is in such an advanced state that it would be a shame not to finish it off. So, I have pretty much decided to forge ahead with it. Moving along to the upper wing, I had just enough time last night to throw together the internal framing and cut out the wing skins. I will have more to say on the underwhelming internal structure in my next post.

 

[Landlubber Mike]

Looking great as per your usual high build quality Chris.  I've always liked the looks of this plane.  Looking forward to the end result!

[ccoyle]

So, last night I got the skins edge-colored and started work on beefing up the internal frames, starting on the center section. There are multiple issues here. First, the instructions and diagrams provide virtually no guidance on where the innermost ribs are supposed to go. Second, the wing is supposed to have a slight dihedral, as suggested by the shape of the spars, but the diagrams do not include a three view (which is a criminal oversight, IMO), and the frames do not include any kind of obvious parts for making sure the proper dihedral gets locked in. That means there is some guesswork involved here. I added the innermost pair of ribs at the joints between the left and right spars, glued the two wing halves together, liberally saturated the area with thin CA, and then left the whole thing to cure overnight while sitting in a crude jig. Will that sufficiently stabilize the center section? That remains to be seen.

 

 

In hindsight, I now suspect that the 'inner' ribs are supposed to be located at the outboard ends of the center section, forming a central 'slice' of wing that would butt join the outer wing panels by inserting the thinner bits of spar into slots in the center-section ribs (it would've been super nice if, ya know, this had been shown somewhere like maybe, I dunno -- IN THE DIAGRAMS??). This is just so unlike any construction method I have previously used that it didn't register in my brain -- at all. One upshot of this is that the beefy pseudo-rib I have created in the middle of the wing has too much material in it --  the center skin will not fit properly, so material will have to be removed from the internal framing. Sigh. 😑

[ccoyle]

Wing progress.

 

 

 

 

[ccoyle]

I got the cabane struts and their bracing done, so of course I had to give the top wing a trial fit.

 

[Keith Black]

Wow Chris, that looks really nice. 

[ccoyle]

Quite possibly the worst rigging diagram I have ever had to work with. Note that one end or the other end, sometimes both ends, of each line is not shown. And this is pretty much the only rigging diagram in the kit.

 

 

In photos, most of the bracing wires appear to be doubled. In some instances it looks like the pairs were wrapped in some kind of material. The upshot is that the cables look thicker. I will duplicate this effect by using wire for the rigging instead of EZ-Line. That means the technique will be a little different.

 

Here's the forest of struts mounted to the lower wing.

 

[realworkingsailor]

Does this help any:

 

https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/6/2/4/249624-30-instructions.pdf

There’s a bit of a rigging diagram.

 

Andy

[ccoyle]

3 hours ago, realworkingsailor said:

Does this help any

 

Yes, actually!

 

BTW, you probably already know this, but Tom Grigat built that very kit in one of his Modeling in Motion videos.

[Egilman]

1 hour ago, ccoyle said:

 

Yes, actually!

 

BTW, you probably already know this, but Tom Grigat built that very kit in one of his Modeling in Motion videos.

Yeah I did, a beautiful job as well...

 

The WnW instruction for this are the best... (glad that Mike got to it before I did)

 

All I can offer is the link to the WnW page for the kit, yes it is still up and functioning, there is even more info on this airplane there... (2 versions)

 

http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/product?productid=3085 French version

 

http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/product?productid=3106 (USAS version, take a look at the rigging update page for the US version)

 

She is looking very nice brother...

Edited June 10, 2024 by Egilman

[ccoyle]

The upper wing is now mounted. It wasn't as troublesome as I feared it might be to get all eight struts in place.

 

 

The model is now sufficiently far enough along to execute recon missions over the dog while making airplane noises. What? Are you telling me you don't make airplane noises?

 

[Keith Black]

13 minutes ago, ccoyle said:

What? Are you telling me you don't make airplane noises?

 No because I don't wanna give my wife any more excuses than necessary to have me committed to the senile community center. 

[ccoyle]

1 minute ago, Keith Black said:

 No because I don't wanna give my wife any more excuses than necessary to have me committed to the senile community center. 

 

But I bet you make them in your head, right?

[Keith Black]

23 minutes ago, ccoyle said:

But I bet you make them in your head, right?

 If I say yes I'm gonna have to burn my computer. 

[ccoyle]

I had to take a refresher course on all the rigging/bracing terminology for biplanes. So for those who are interested, here's a quick lesson:

• cabane struts: the struts between the fuselage and upper wing
• interplane struts: the struts between the upper and lower wings
• bay: the rectangular space bounded by two sets of struts and the upper and lower wings
• torsion wires: the wires that brace the rectangles formed by the cabane struts, upper wing, and fuselage
• landing wires: the wires that run outward and down from the upper wing to the lower wing in between struts
• flying wires: the wires that run outward and up from the lower wing to the upper wing between struts; together, flying wires and landing wires brace a bay
• incidence wires: the wires that brace the rectangle formed by a pair of parallel struts and the upper and lower wings.

The S2 is a double bay aircraft, having four pairs of interplane struts and four cabane struts. The model will have 12 torsion wires, 8 incidence wires, 8 flying wires, and 8 landing wires, for a grand total (so far) of 36 wires. That's 36 individual pieces of EZ-Line or wire to attach. I have 23 done so far. Stay tuned . . .

[Canute]

Cross-eyed yet? 😁

[ccoyle]

12 hours ago, ccoyle said:

• landing wires: the wires that run outward and down from the upper wing to the lower wing in between struts
• flying wires: the wires that run outward and up from the lower wing to the upper wing between struts; together, flying wires and landing wires brace a bay

 

This stuff is so confusing that I inadvertently switched the definitions of these two terms in my last post. And none of you caught it!! 😂  It's fixed now.

[Jack12477]

Probably because it's all Greek to us ! 😛😉🙃😊

[Marcel1981]

On 5/30/2024 at 11:27 PM, ccoyle said:

So, while I'm sitting here killing some time, allow me to share one of the Great Criminal Enterprises in the world of card modeling. Shown below is a screen capture of my shopping cart from an actual publisher/vendor in Poland, who shall go nameless.

 

 

Pay special attention to the shipping charge. How many models do you think are in my shopping cart?

 

Two.

 

Yes, that is the shipping cost to get two kits (plus frames, wheels, and canopies) shipped from Poland. Which is a shame, because I'm really quite interested in these two particular models (a Swedish J-20, i.e. Reggiane 2000, and a North American Harvard IIB). But I'm not $72.24 interested. Sadly, these two kits are not available at the sites I usually buy from.

 

Card models -- it pays to shop.

 That's so strange! From the Netherlands I can ship 1kg to the USA for around 20 euro's! Shipping from Poland to the Netherlands is somewhere around 10 euro's. Let me know if I can help you Chris. I also have relatives in the USA who visit the Netherlands 1 or 2 times a year.

[ccoyle]

Got the wing bracing done. It was not fun! The last couple of pieces decided to be quite a pain in the tuckus. Once you've bent a stretched piece of wire, you can't re-stretch it if it gets bent. I bent the first three attempts at the last wire. Fourth time was a charm. 😑

 

 

BTW, I may have placed a small order with Halinski. Now I have to wait for the mail, so I'll keep you waiting along with me. 😁

[realworkingsailor]

“May have” ?? “
 

”Small order” ???

 

uhh huh…. Riiiight…. 😜

 

Nice job with the rigging BTW…. 

 

Andy

[ccoyle]

Got the ailerons done.

 

 

And the landing gear test-fitted.

 

[Keith Black]

 Chris, that looks so fantastic and again, it's really hard for me to believe it's paper. Extremely nice work. 

[ccoyle]

Landing gear on and rigged. Vickers gun assembled and mounted.

 

 

I had a number of issues with the landing gear, starting with a cryptic assembly diagram that I only figured out after I completed the assembly. That led to a slight difference between the as-designed and finished gear that no one will likely notice. Second, the middle strut on each side is not long enough to reach the fuselage. Third, the finished fuselage/gear joints have some play in them, so the resting model can easily be rocked side-to-side (like a wing waggle); this results in the wings steadfastly refusing to sit level. None of these are issues that I feel like spending extra time trying to fix, so I will once again rely on "judicious camera angles" for the final photo shoot.

[ccoyle]

On 6/15/2024 at 5:55 AM, Marcel1981 said:

Let me know if I can help you Chris.

 

That's kind of you, Marcel.

 

My latest order from Halinski, which includes six kits and their accessories, cost me about $42 for shipping -- $30 less than getting just two kits from Answer! I don't know how that is possible, since I assume they both ship via the Polish Post. Answer must simply add on a larger handling 'fee'.

[ccoyle]

Just a quick update. Since the last post, there remained essentially just five assemblies to complete: propeller (since completed), aileron control horns, Lewis gun mount, and a couple of items that I assume are externally-mounted, wind-powered generators. ALL of these assemblies are either poorly documented in the diagrams or else not documented at all, so some educated guesswork and consultation of outside sources will be necessary. This is a pretty disappointing situation for any modeler, obviously, regardless of medium. I will definitely be avoiding kits designed by Mr. Lewan in the future.

[ccoyle]

Another quick update: I have completed everything mentioned in the last post except the Lewis guns. There will be no more pics until the "Big Reveal" -- sorry!

 

On a side note, since the plane has two different types of MG armament in two different mountings, it also has two different gun sights. An unimpressive paper vane sight is provided for the Lewis mount, and a template is provided for scratch-building a ring sight for the Vickers gun. I have considered acquiring after-market replacement parts for these (such as the 1/32 scale 3D-printed sets from Eduard), but have so far not been able to find any in stock on this side of the pond. I found some from a European vendor, but the cost was going to be north of 20 euros to get them here -- that's more than the kit itself costs, so that's a no from me. Anybody have any leads for me?

[Egilman]

Gaspatch from Greece has shipping to the world for 13E.... They have several variations of both in 1/32 scale...

 

Vickers US built...  https://www.ebay.com/itm/175473761772

 

Vane Sights... https://www.ebay.com/itm/276443512739

 

Lewis Gun... https://www.ebay.com/itm/175473752654

 

All US based evilbay...

 

Victory Models out of Ft Meyers FL. has all three in stock.... https://www.victorymodels.com/search?page=2&q=*Gaspatch*guns*&type=product

Edited June 22, 2024 by Egilman