HMS Victory by Jeff-E - FINISHED - Panart - 1:78 Scale - Bow Section

[dragzz]

hello jeff great job u are doing there i got one thing to ask i see u a bit of a keel bow section did u plank that it sure looks like it to me is that in the plans or did u do your self if u did i think it looks way better keep up the great work

[Jeff-E]

Hi Richard and Dragzz,

 

Thank you both for looking in and your kind words and thank you to all those who clicked 'like'

 

Dragzz, Yes I did plank the stem and keel the plans do call for this section to be planked  but not in the way I did it, a photo of their way of doing it is on page 9 of this log, I have planked it similar, I hope  , to how the keel and stem were made on the actual ship going by drawings from C Neapean Longridges book  .

[dragzz]

i seen the planking on page 9 in the book u have there and what u did much better look

[Jeff-E]

Thank you very much Dragzz.

[Jeff-E]

Hi All,

 

Another small udate. after making a water line marking jig, pics below.

 

 

 

I marked the water line onto the hull at the distance stated in the plans which is 70 mm from the bottom of the hull which is to me seems a strange way of doing ti as all the other measurements are taken from the bottom of the keel  

 

 

I set the hull up in my keel clamping vice with the bottom of the hull firmly against the steel top plates and then made sure the hull was level fore and aft and athwart ships then I dedcuted the  keel  length from the bottom of the hull  from the distance from the top of the vice to the table, added 70mm to this and checked it on both rules to make sure the hull was even on the table

 

 

I then marked the water line on both sides of the hull

 

 

I also marked the position of the wales using the jig , bearing in mind that the lines for the wales are a guide only and the wales will follow the line of gunports

 

 

 

I have run into a slight problem and have been trying to overcome it this afternoon and that is how to mark a gore line for the copper plateing, as it is only a bow section I don't have a centre of a ship to go off,but i have been looking at some logs and Longridge has a nice plan of the coppering in his book.But any suggestions on how to go about it would be most welcome.

My lastest idea is to come down about 7 or 8 tiles form the keel at the back and then lay a plank along that line and see how it looks . I think it might be a case of trial and hopefully not to many errors

 

I would also like to take this opportunity to wish all of you a very Merry Christmas

 

 

 

 

[AntonyUK]

Hi Jeff.

You are making very progress with the Bow section

Your attention to detail is brilliant.

Are you going to DIY copper plate the bottom ? Or does the kit come with the plates ?

 

Have a happy Christmas and a good new year.

 

Regards Antony.

Edited December 21, 2013 by AntonyUK

[gjdale]

Hi Jeff,

 

Fabulous work so far - looks great. Re your question on coppering and gore line, I don't have the book in front of me right now, but I'm pretty sure that Longridge says in the text that there are 12(?) rows of coppering parallel to the waterline (ie working down from the waterline). This would form your gore line, and then come up from the keel letting the copper tiles follow a line of "natural" curve. I hope that makes sense.

[Jeff-E]

Hi Antony and Grant,

 

Thank you both for looking in and your kind comments.

 

Antony, the copper plates are supplied in the kit 500 of them . They seem to be of fairly good quality however some are not quite rectangular.

 

Grant, thanks for the info and that does make sense, I just read trough his section on coppering and he says there are 12 rows of tiles in the first belt which overlaps the second belt that comes up from the keel  

[Ronnie B]

I am not much for saying or posting much as I watch and learn but  I Just want to say you are doing a GREAT job I look forward to every post and pic.

I will probably be purchasing this kit after New year's.

I want to wish all here a Merry Christmas and a Happy Healthy New Year!!!

 

Ron

[gjdale]

Glad that was of some help Jeff. Keep up the great work - that looks like a really nice little kit and you're doing a great job of enhancing it.

[dragzz]

hi jeff i really like that jig that u make for the water line looks like it work just fine  now iam going to have to make one now tys lol keep up the great work

[Jeff-E]

Hi Ron, Grant and Dragzz,

 

Thank You all for your kind words.

 

Ron - Welcome to this log and I look forward to seeing your progress of your build on this forum.

 

Grant - Thankyou and I think I have worked out how to do it, the next update will explain, I hope  

 

Dragzz - Thanks, it is made from 3mm MDF with a 12mm plywood base, the pencil holder is made from 19mm pine

[Vivian Galad]

Just love sections and it´s something I want to do scratchbuilding. I have a dream, when all my ships will have their sections exposed right beside them! Great work, Jeff. Waiting to see more. ^^

[Jeff-E]

Hi All,

 

I did forget to mention in my previous post that this will be my first attempt at copper plating a ship, even 1/3 of one

 

After some further reading and some more thinking I have have come up with a plan on how to attack the copper plating. Most logs and books recomend starting from the keel up in the centre of the hull but, as Grant suggested, I am going to start from the waterline and come down 12 rows to establish a gore line for the bottom half of the hull

 

The first thing to do will be to attach a battern along the waterline so that the copper plates will have an edge to butt up against. From what I can find out after a bit of research is these batterns were about 3 inches wide which equates to approximately 1mm wide at this scale. I took a piece of 3 x 0.5mm saplele and cut it in half and then sanded the two pieces down to 1mm thick, these will glued along the waterline.

 

 

 

The next part will be to lay 12 strakes of copper plates from the waterline down, so I can achieve a line on how the strakes would take there natural line from the centre of the ship is to lay a temporary plank underneath the first few plates and let it take its natural line and where it crosses the water line this is where I will start cutting the plates at an angle to sit against the battern and then do the same for the following strake and so on until I reach the 12 rows required. I will then run the strakes from the keel up to this gore line.

 

 

 

This all sounds great in theory so we will see how it works out in practice

 

 

[Jeff-E]

Hi Vivian,

 

Welcome to my log and thank you for your kind words. I like the extra detail a section shows how the ship was constructed, I too would like to a scratch build some time in the future, I have seen a photo of a half section model of the Victory, it would be something I would like to do when I gain a lot more skill.  

[dragzz]

hi jeff just take all the time u need it will come out just fine 

[Jeff-E]

Hi All,

 

I have fitted the batterns to follow the previosly marked waterline, you may also notice that I have also adde the top wale and I'm in the process of bending the rest of them. These will be fitted over the next few days

 

 

 

 

I have also started to lay the copper plates on the port side.

 

 

 

I discovered that cutting these plates is a horrid job, the method I'm using is to try and hold them down on a self healing cutting mat wtih a steel rule and cut them with a stanely knife, but it tends to grab the plate and slide it out from between the ruler and the mat and when I can hold the plate tight the knife only seems to score the plate not cut it. I don't know if it's the plates in this kit or I'm using the wrong techniquie to cut them.

I know I can't use scissors or cutters to cut them as they distort the plates to much and they do not give a clean cut. 

The angled plates in the above pics was achiieved by filing them down and the last on on the top row I managed to score a line deep enough to hold in the jaws of a pair of pliers and bend it a couple of times till it snapped off.

 

Any suggestions or advice on cutting these plates woud be gratly appreciated

[Captain Slog]

Hi Jeff,

 

Looking good.

 

I can't help with the cutting but read somewhere on the site where someone stuck, I think, masking tape to the underside of the rule which might be enough to grip the plate when applying downward pressure on the rule. 

 

I have never cut plates but when I cut photo etch I never do it on the cutting mat as I found the mat has enough give to bend the photo etch before it cut through, distorting the photo etch.  I always do it on a scrap piece of MDF but like I said never cut coppering plates before.

 

Cheers

Slog

[Stockholm tar]

Jeff,

 

Can't help with the copper plate cutting problem, but she's looking good! Great work!

Edited December 23, 2013 by Stockholm tar

[Ken Bartley]

Hello Jeff,

Just spent the last couple of months coppering Caldercrafts HMS Diana. I used various tools to cut the plates. Small tin snips both curved and stright. I also cut them use a heavy duty knife. The trick is to use a safety rule (the make of mine is Maun) .For best results I used it near to the end of the rule as possible and press down firmly. Make several cuts . I then finish off with sanding sticks. Another useful tool while coppering is an abreshive pencil. This gets rid of any residue glue. Hope this helps.

Ken

[Jeff-E]

Hi Slog, Kester and Ken,

 

Thank you all for your kind comments and your sugestions to help solve my little problem

 

Slog - You are right the cutting mat must have enough give in it so that the plate cannot be held firmly. I just tried cutting one on a board and it was much easier  thanks

 

Ken - Thank you for your helpful hints and as I mentioned above I just cut one and used the end of the rule to hold it down, which worked really well, it took about ten passes with the knife but it finaly cut through. One question by a safety rule do you mean a steel rule? 

[AntonyUK]

Hi Jeff.

Looking good :0

Cutting the plates on a soft surface will not be good. On hardboard will work but dont use wood as it will follow the grain.

or a very good pair of scissors. IE sharp and quality.

Never tried the score and bend method but its only copper and should work

Could also use a paper guillitine. Not the roller type.

 

All the best.

Regards Antony.

[olliechristo]

Looks great Jeff. I was going to suggest something sticky like masking tape to help hold them.. Some great tips. I look forward to doing my copper plates and glad i have stacks extra to play around with.. regards Ollie

[Ronnie B]

Jeff

I agree with Antony UK I would try a quality pair of scissors to take off the majority of material and file or sand to fit..

I have not done anything on ships yet but I have to tell you I will find out soon ,Saint Nick( aka my wife) surprised me early with this kit.

I hope you don't mind but I will probably be using some of your changes on my kit. Now the research starts.

Ron

[mathewp]

Have a happy Chrismas Jeff. I'm having a break from building to holiday with my 3 lads. She's taking shape now, and will look a treat with the copper.

[dragzz]

hello jeff  it looking great so far i want to try the copper but not to sure where i can buy it from nut keep up the great work keep thos pics going

[Jeff-E]

Hi Antony, Ollie, Ron, Matt and Dragzz,

 

Thankyou all for your kind comments and tips

 

Antony - I had a bit of frustrating day cutting plates with the stanley knife and a piece of wood and you are right the knife does follow the grain  , so I have bit the bullet and just ordered a pair of 'Xuron' photo etch cutters which they say are also suitable for cutting sheet brass. I probably won't recieve them until the new year so I will persist with cutting them with the stanley knife but I will use a piece of MDF instead of timber  

Merry Christmas to you  

 

Ollie - They seem to hold OK with just finger pressure on the steel rule as long as there is a hard surface underneath, my problem was trying to hold them down on a flexible suface. Laying the copper plates themselves is not a bad job I quite enjoy it.

Merry Christmas to you  

 

Ron - As mentioned above I have ordered a pair of good quality cutters which I hope should make the job alot more enjoyable  

Congratulations on your early Christmas present and please feel free to use any of the ideas in this log that is what this forum is all about, sharing ideas and techniquies

Merry Christmas to you  

 

Matt - I hope you and your 3 lads have a great holiday and a Merry Christmas to you and your family  

 

Dragzz - I know there is copper tape, which is actual copper strip with an adhiesve backing is available, maybe from a hardware or craft store, this is probably the best solutoin for you if you want to copper your hull as you can cut it to the size you want as most of the pre cut copper plates available from hobby stores that I could find were all 1:64 or 1:72 scale or bigger which is to big for the scale of your model

Merry Christmas to you  

[AntonyUK]

Hello Jeff.

A very happy Christmas to you and your family.

 

Regards Antony.

[Jeff-E]

Hi All,

 

I have made a little bit of progress today I have attached the lower wale strakes above the waterline and shaped the lower strakes for the other 2 wales. Because I had no way of clamping them to the hull while the glue dried I drilled and pinned the strakes with brass nails which were later removed and bamboo treenails fitted into the holes these will be sanded flush with the wale and as the hull will be painted they will not be seen.

 

I am going to fit the lowwer strake of each wale first to get them even and lined up properly with the ports and then the next strake will be easy as it only has to fit up against the one below it

 

I also got a few more copper plates laid

[Jeff-E]

Hi All,

 

 Another small update. I have shaped the middle and upper wales and fitted the middle wales and I have done a little more copper plating, I have been cutting the plates with a pair of scissors, the big angles only the slighter angles have been adjusted with a file only, and although there is a little bit of curling of the plate I can straighten this out by sitting it on the jaws of my vice and tapping it lightly with a small hammer.

I think the results are OK so far but we will see how it pans out as I progress down the hull. I do know it is time consuming little process to make sure each copper tile sits right against the one above and next to it

 

A few pictures follow