What would you do with this ebony?

[capnharv2]

When I started building ship models, the "Gold" standard of woods to use were boxwood and ebony. So, for the last 20-30 years, I've picked up odds and ends of both woods. I've got a good stash of boxwood, and a slightly smaller stash of ebony (I don't remember what species they are-I think mainly Macassar and Gabon). We're not talking truckloads of the stuff, but plenty for several models.

 

I was just reading an article on the increasing scarcity of ebony from the wood database that Mark Taylor put up (Thanks!). It got me thinking about my stash of ebony, the problems associated with its use, the toxicity of the dust from it, and while I'm not afraid to use it, I feel guilty using it-especially with the number of options to get the same effect (staining, alternate woods, paint, etc). And I certainly don't plan to buy more.

 

So, my question is-what would you do with a nice stash of ebony?

 

Thanks,

 

Harvey

 

 

[Nirvana]

Harvey,

 

Ebony is such a hard a nice wood.

Use this wood "as is" the grain is extremely fine.

"Takes finishes well, and finishes to a high luster. Ebony is commonly used for small ornamental purposes, such as piano keys, musical instrument parts, pool cues, carvings. Great for knobs, pulls, inlays and accents in cabinetry. Somewhat difficult to machine, but worth the reward. Excellent turning wood. Africa."

 

I would use the ebony for belaying pins, and items I would like to "highlight" on my ships.

But that's just my two cents

[Nirvana]

Harvey, if you don't need some of the stash I am more than happy to ease the load. Me and wife will be in Seattle in a couple of weeks.

[Bill Hime]

I'd be more than happy to buy it from you. PM me if you are interested, I have plenty of ideas for uses in my upcoming builds.

 

Thanks! 

 

Bill

[capnharv2]

Brian,

 

I thought that it was hard to shape and almost impossible to bend. I've also heard that it's hard to glue, unless you clean it with acetone right before gluing.

 

Per,

 

I could use it for small thinks like belaying pins. But I believe a have a 1/4" x 3" x 36" piece, and a 2" x 2" x 12" piece, and I hate to think of cutting the big pieces up when I could use them as wales, cap rails, keels, etc. And, yes, I have thought of selling some of it. But I have a lot more common wood that I would rather part with first (like 1" x 6" x 6 ft basswood planks, 2" x 4" x 24" walnut blocks, 1/8" x 4" x 48" cherry and maple, etc).

 

Bill, I'll think about it, but, as I told Per, I have other woods I'd rather part with first.

 

Thanks for the replies gents!

 

Harvey

[Nirvana]

Harvey, ebony as cap rail and wales....... that would be very beautiful, would really stand out!

[capnharv2]

Brian,

 

How long do you soak the ebony? And is Titebond Green label also known as Titebond 3? We use it for gluing bungs into fastener holes on our boats-it works much better than epoxy.

 

Per,

 

That's probably what I'll use it on when I build my Agamemnon. But I might consider a stained wood instead. I still have a lot of thinking to do on it.

 

Thanks,

 

Harvey

[Nirvana]

Brian,

Titebond III is the one that is even waterproof, green label.

The color of labels may differ for countries, though.

Edited November 3, 2013 by Nirvana

[capnharv2]

Yes, that's the one (Titebond 3 is beige). And Brian, thank you for the information on plank thickness and soaking time. I remember reading when Harold Hahn made wales for his models that they were a build up of boxwood and a thin (like 1 mm) cover piece of ebony.

 

Now if I can just learn to bend the ebony gently. . .

 

Per, you said you would be on this side of the mountains in a couple weeks. Will you be at the November PSSM meeting?

 

Thanks,

 

Harvey

[mtaylor]

Harvey,

 

Use it for whatever you want.  You own it, it's yours.  It won't make anything less scarce.    Now that I've said that, it's a bitch to bend.  I soaked, heated, and re-soak my wales 3 times to get the bend I wanted.  Finally after the last soak, I jigged it and it stayed put (1/4 by 1/4 inch).  I've done a bit thicker like 3/16 inch, but not going to try it again...

 

The one thing I love about it... it's gorgeous in place.   I have a 2-1/2" X 2-1/2" X 24" piece that I'm thinking of using to make my admiral a jewelry box, just for kicks and grins... and Christmas.

 

I still think it's a bear to work with and after the current project, I probably won't use it again. 

[Nirvana]

Mark, I hope your wife doesn't read what you just wrote, otherwise Santas cover has been blown.

[mtaylor]

Per,

She's the one who mentioned it when I was ordering ebony a few months ago... so I just added a stick.

[Ulises Victoria]

Ebony is my favorite wood for making pens.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Ulises Victoria

[michael mott]

Ulises,

Those Pens are exquisite, I'm lusting after them! I like to write with a real pen and ink.

 

Michael

[Ulises Victoria]

Thank you Michael. Soon you will be able to log into my Pen Web Site and purchase pens to your heart's content.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Ulises Victoria

[Bob Cleek]

This from the New York Times last year:

 

Gibson Guitar Settles Claim Over Imported Ebony By JAMES C. MCKINLEY JR.

 

7:25 p.m. | Updated

Gibson Guitar Corporation has agreed to pay $350,000 in penalties to settle federal charges that it illegally imported ebony Madagascar to use for fret boards, ending a criminal investigation that had drawn fire from conservatives as an example of over-reaching by the government, the Justice Department announced on Monday.

The guitar maker agreed to pay a $300,000 fine and to donate $50,000 to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation to promote the protection of endangered hardwood trees, like ebony and rosewood. In return, the government deferred prosecution of the company for criminal violations of the Lacey Act, which since May 2008 has made it illegal to import wood that was harvested and exported illegally under another country’s laws.

“Gibson has acknowledged that it failed to act on information that the Madagascar ebony it was purchasing may have violated laws intended to limit over-harvesting and conserve valuable wood species from Madagascar, a country which has been severely impacted by deforestation,” said Ignacia S. Moreno, an assistant attorney general.

Henry E. Juszkiewicz, Gibson’s chief executive, said the company still maintains the ebony from Madagascar was exported legally under that country’s laws. But he agreed to the settlement, he said, because it frees the guitar maker to continue importing wood from India, which, unlike Madagascar, is the major supplier of rosewood used in many fretboards.

For the last year, he said, the criminal proceedings in court had effectively cut off Gibson from sources of hardwood in both Madagascar and India, and its luthiers were forced to make guitars with laminated fret-boards or fingerboards made of woods not traditionally used in guitars, which some customers did not like.

“The alternative was pretty onerous,” he said. “We would have had to have gone to trial and we would have been precluded from buying wood from our major source country. For the ability to carry on with the business and remove this onerous Sword of Damocles, if you will, we feel this is about as good a settlement as we can get.”

The federal investigation drew fire from conservatives after agents raided Gibson offices and factories in Nashville on Aug. 24 last year and seized pallets of fretboard blanks imported from India. That raid came two years after more than a dozen agents with automatic weapons burst into a Gibson factory in Nashville to seize ebony fingerboards from Madagascar. The raids became a cause for Tea Party activists and some Republican lawmakers, including House Speaker John A. Boehner, who questioned whether the government was overstepping its bounds.

Gibson said the shipments were legal and disputed the government’s interpretation of Indian and Madagascar laws, which the company maintains allow the exportation of “fingerboard blanks,” which are in essence a piece of hardwood cut to the dimensions of a guitar fret board. But federal officials defended the raids, saying the company had failed to comply with the Lacey Act and its officials had willfully turned a blind eye to evidence the exports were in fact illegal.

The settlement announced on Monday is a compromise that frees Gibson from the criminal charges as long as the company doesn’t violate the agreement over the next year and a half. As part of the deal, Gibson agreed to withdraw a suit seeking to recover about $261,000 worth of ebony and rosewood that was seized during the investigation.

Mr. Juszkiewicz said the government had also agreed to return the Indian fingerboard blanks it had seized last year and to allow future imports of the blanks from India. “We entered into the settlement voluntarily,” he said. “It allows us to continue on with life and manufacture guitars.”

 

 

 

Keep the Lacey Act in mind when considering the use of various exotics.  Even if you have a stash of ebony that's been gathering dust since long before May 2008 when the embargo on "illegally harvested" woods went into effect, you'll pay hell producing the required paperwork proving that the ebony, rosewood, ivory or whatever on the endangered list is legally possessed.  The burden to prove the embargoed material was imported prior to May 2008 or was otherwise obtained legally, is on the person in possession.  The fines a worse than for drug possession.  Be advised!  You don't want to end up like Gibson guitar company.  It cost them $300,000 and probably several times that much simply because they didn't have the paperwork to prove the ebony they'd imported was "legal."

 

It isn't like the cops are going to be kicking down your door anytime soon looking for ebony and rosewood, but if you ever want to sell the model, that may likely become an issue unless you can prove the model was built before May 2008.

 

[mtaylor]

Bob,

 

Just curious here... we buy our wood usually from "local" sources.  By that, I mean places that sell the wood to consumers such as Woodcraft, Hobby Mill, The Lumberyard, etc.   We generally have no way of knowing where this wood came from. 

 

In the Gibson case, they were directly importing it.  I guess I'm not sure how this would apply to those of us at the end of the food chain since I'm not a lawyer.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

I used ebony often and, nothing, beats the look and the touch of it.

Wales is the first place where to use it.

Did you know that ebony is heavier than water, if you throw it in the water, it sanks.

 

Here in Canada, we can buy ebony but it is expensive. For 1'' X 4'' X 4'; $150

You have it, use it, and enjoy it!

 

Of course boxwood because of it's fine grain will take the smallest details in carving.

Although I have never tried but because of his high density, ebony could be interesting to carve!

[capnharv2]

Thanks everybody! I'll try to use it without guilt (or at least with less guilt)

 

Harvey

[sudomekh]

Russia has ... hornbeam tree, which is painted inside chemically

... I buy it ... it is 7-8 times cheaper than ebony

[Sailor1234567890]

Is that Ariel hull planked in Hornbeam then?

This hull is starting to haunt me. I see it in threads here and there and can find nothing about the build. Sudomekh..... where are you? Tell me more about this model. She's beautiful and I want to know more about her.

[HIPEXEC]

I use a heavy duty mask especially made for toxic dust.

[druxey]

All the more reason not to use ebony in model work! (As if there weren't enough reasons already!)

[Jaxboat]

I agree with Druxey. His dye technique works like a charm.

Regards

Jaxboat

[Richard Griffith]

Since you already own the ebony, then use it. 

I saw an article about using ebony to make cannon barrels-very nicely done, too.

Just be sure to use a mask and dust collection system as the dust is toxic.

 

Duff