Naval Cutter Alert by AnobiumPuncatum - Scale 1/36 - POF

[AnobiumPunctatum]

@dgbot

 

I know the model of Mr. Cole. He published his model on a website.

 

@Ed

 

Thanks very much for your description. I will give it a try before I made my decision. I made some other tests but these don't work very well, so I am trying and learning in the moment. The rabbet of this small vessel is really challenging and I don't want to break anothe backbone.

Edited March 9, 2014 by AnobiumPunctatum

[druxey]

Scratch-molding the rabbet will work well, I agree, along most of the keel. However, you will still need to cut the fore and aft ends with hand tools where the changing relationship of garboard angle to keel occurs.

[DaveyJones]

I have just become aware of your build log of the Alert. 

 

Several years ago I constructed a fully framed model along similar lines to your build, photographs of which were posted on the old MSW website. Perhaps this is the model referred to in your first post. For those interested, I have today uploaded a few photographs to the Gallery of Completed Scratch-built Models.

 

You have made an excellent start to your build, Christian. Very precise work. I shall follow your progress with great interest.

 

Cheers, Dave

[michael mott]

Very nice work I will be following along Christian.

 

Michael

[HIPEXEC]

A lot of your pictures are not there. I'd love to see your build progress.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

@Rich,

 

I fixed the broken picture links. Hopefully all pictures are now visible again.

 

@all

Sorry that I didn't make an update for a long time. Sometimes real life lets not really time for modelbuilding.

In the moment I am waiting for the original plan of the Rattlesnake which I ordered at the NMM. There are a lot of details where I am not happy with my design which I made on basis of the AotS book. Last year I traced the lines as described in an article of the MSW database. But meanwhile I learned a lot about doing an new reconstruction on basis of an original drawing. This I will try to do for the cutter after the original drawing arrived.

 

Perhaps one of our admins can change scale in the title, because I like to build the model in 1/32. The bigger scale gives me a lot more possibilities for makeing the klinker planking.

 

At last I have a question:

Roger Cole refers in his article about his model on an article which was published in Nautical Research Journal Vol 29, Number 4 December 1983:

Kingman, Irving H: Modeling HMB Cutter Alert - 1777. Perhaps someone can help me with a copy. Thanks.

[AntonyUK]

Hi Christian.

Is this what you are referring to ?.

http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/BuildingAlert.pdf This is a link that is already posted on your build.

Looking forward to you continuing this build..

 

Regards Antony.

[harvey1847]

Happy Birthday Christian!! Fifty! Fifty!

 

Have an excellent day!

 

Daniel.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

As written in my last post I bought last month the design drawing for Alert/Rattlesnake at the NMM.

With my new knowledge about reconstruction of a line drawing I started to redesign the ship on basis of the NMM drawing.

 

For this I did not use any information of Goodwin, because it's not a primary source. I don't have access to the archieves so I will only use the NMM drawing and later the vademecum for the scantlings. I am not sure if I like to show my model as designed and shown on the drawing or as shown on the Marshal painting.

Both presentations have the same origin: they should show the design for a ship to the people who allocate the funds.

 

The drawing isn't finished but I like to hear your meaning about the the reconstructed lines:

 

 

It#s my first reconstructed ship, so I am not sure if everything is right.

Edited October 15, 2014 by AnobiumPunctatum

[jaerschen]

Hello Christian,

 

I fear to that I can't be a great help for you. But it's nice to see that your project is going on.

[harvey1847]

Hello Christian!

 

The plan looks goo to me. You might need another diagonal for the aft frames but it´s up to you if you need it or not. Did you draw the original diagonals or you just drawn them taking the points of each futtock on the sheer plan? And another one or two, Do you have the plans scanned and you use them as a pattern on CAD or you have "paper" and you have to be taking meassures? If you are using spilines to make the body plan, how you get to that weird bodyplan with all those parallel lines to the top of the keel? Did you just copy them from the original plan or are actually the center to make the different frames? I would like to know because I have never understood how the shipwrights could get to that. I mean how the hek you find the centers for these sweep lines!

 

Beatiful draft! I´ll copy your info box.

 

 

Daniel.

[AntonyUK]

Hi ChristIan

Lookin very good.

In your first post " . Next step was the keel. Goodwin shows for the pass between keel and lower apron a solution which I could not find on any original cutter drawings."

This had me looking into why Goodwin drew it like this... A local shipwright informed me that it use is " a part of the bow/keel joint that was phrone to being damaged while in shallow waters. This area is easy replaced.

 

Antony.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

@Antony

Thanks for the info.

 

@Daniel

I've scanned the NMM-drawing and work with the digital copy in Autocad. There I can take the measurements of all lines much easier than by hand. Also it's possible to get the information of the radii of the different curves. Be aware that the original drawing has some distortion which you have to calculate out.

The diagonal and horizontal lines in the half breath except the breath extreme line are the result of the construction work in the body plan. There I use splines. All curves in the body plan are arcs with tagential transition.

 

I will try to describe what I did, but it's not so easy to do in English. So please give me bit of time.

[harvey1847]

Hello Christian,

 

 

I will try to describe what I did, but it's not so easy to do in English. So please give me bit of time

 

With just one or two drawn with all the arcs and its centers I will understand how you did it or how you work. I use Autocad 2011 as well but I use the spilines for everything (or almost). I copy the scanned body plan with splines and then I start the water lines.

 

I think I´ll start a new log of the 74 I´m drawing... at least only the drafting - drawing. If I have not started it yet is because I am jumping from one part of the ship to another. Right now I am with the aft cant frames. So I´ll tidy up a little bit the draft and I´ll start to post the progress on a new log.

 

Cheers,

 

Daniel.

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Daniel asked me to show how I get the different center points and radii for the construction of an frame. Please be in mind that there are a lot of  other steps necessary before you can start with the frame construction.

First let me refer to two articles which I think that they are very helpful in understanding the lines of an original drawing
1. David Antscherl: Understanding Eighteenth-Century Admirality Drafts, Nautical Research Journal Vol. 52, No. 2 Summer 2008
2. David White: Understandig Ships' Draughts, Model Shipwright No. 48 ff.

 

I made some screen shots during the construction of the main frame of the cutter.

After creating the "Breath Extreme" line in the Body-Plan, I define the Center Points for the Lower Height of Breath.


Next I determine the radii of the arcs, which don't have the center points in the original drawing (most of this arcs were drawn with French Curves).
The list gives the different values:

• Lower height of breath: 72.53
• first:          260.35
• second:    straight
• third:         -319.9

 

 

Next I calculate the center point of the first curve: I draw an arc with the radius 260.35 from the endpoint of my help line and a radius from the center point of the lower height of breath withe the radius 260.35 - 72.53 = 187.82. Then I draw a line from this center point to the center point of the Lower height of breath and stretchit to the circle of the Lower height of breath. Now you can draw a circle with the first radius.

 

Now I repeat these steps for creating the center point of the third curve. I draw to circles with the determined radius, one from the keel and one from en point of the help line.

 

Next I draw a straight line to both circles. There exist an Autocad function to do this, so nothing to construct for me .

 

At last I draw the frame. I start at the Lower height of breath. Then I draw the upper height of breath and complete the frame with the other arcs and straights.

I hope that this small description is helpful for someone.

Edited October 26, 2014 by AnobiumPunctatum

[AnobiumPunctatum]

My new keel drawing is finished.

 

Next I will draw the frames and build the new bigger version of my keel

[druxey]

Looking very nice, Christian. However, I suspect that the joints in the stem would be staggered as I've re-drawn. (Based on NMM draughts of other Revenue cutters. For instance, see Skylark, 1821) You might wish to consider this. Usually the keel would be only two pieces.

Edited October 26, 2014 by druxey

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Thanks for the hints, Druxey.

 

I found this solution for the stem joints at a contemporary drawings of HMS Cheerful, 1806.

 

Do you think that the  drawing has there a mistake?

 

I will change the numbers of joints at the keel.

[druxey]

That Cheerful draught is unusual: if it was drawn that way, it must have been done like that. However, I'd say that was most unusual. The strength of the joints would be compromised and more bolts would need removing to replace the forefoot or gripe piece. The attached image is rather small, but demonstrates my point. (If you click on it, it will enlarge.) Note the keel joint at around station 6, aft.

Edited October 27, 2014 by druxey

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Thank you, Druxey. I will follow your advice and modify my drawing.

 

Your input is the reason, why I post my drawing, because I am sure that there are things which can be done better. And so I am very happy that you show me possible improvements,

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Here is the modified drawing.

 

[druxey]

That certainly looks much more like other cutter draughts I've seen, Christian. Just make sure that the joints in the keelson alternate with the joint in the keel (at about C and 9). They need to be as far apart from each other for strength.

[EdT]

AP,

 

I like the correctness and precision in your drawing the arcs of the hull profile.  Well done.

 

On the stem joints, I would agree with Druxey on staggering the joints.  Sometimes I think we take the draftsman's construction detials like joint lines shown on the drafts too seriously.  I would think the shipwrights had their own ideas as well as standard practices and applied them to the work.  I also think actual timber available may have affected these "shop floor" - or should I say "mould loft" - decisions.

 

Ed

[harvey1847]

Hello Christian!

 

Thank you very very much for the explanation about how actually the plans were done but I think I´ll continue with the splines method. Too complex for me but chapeau for you...You could draw with a compass, a pencil and a piece of paper and I, by now,  just could not. Aahh the splines and computers!

 

Interesting discussion about the Keel and the stem - apron... Look what I have to deal with to try to draw mine...I am doing a lot of research to find out a proper keel print to my project but looks kinda impossible task. Notice that even on the print there is like scarfs that has been trying to be erase by the shipwright or the artist. (because it looks more an artisctic print than a proper plan to me)

 

 

Best wishes.

 

 

Daniel.

Edited October 28, 2014 by harvey1847

[Chuck]

Hopefully not to confuse the situation,  But here is a better image of Cheerfuls stem parts.  You are using the outboard plan.  This is from the inboard draft.  I have seen this arrangement on two other cutters but sadly these details are not shown on most cutter drafts.  The Alert is much younger also so this may not even be applicable.   

 

But I wanted to mention how all of the lines on the draft you posted are dashed for these elements.  On the inboard sheet however it shows the dashed lines as if they were parts cut for the other side of the stem only.  Meaning that the stem was intended to be cut in one piece and the two other elements used for the boxing joint and apron on the other side only.  That is ...if I am reading the draft correctly.   It seems unlikely that they could find such a large piece to make the stem like that.   So I agree with Ed that in all likelihood it depended on what wood they had on hand and probably ended up with a  much different "made up"  stem that may not have matched any of these choices.

 

So I simplified it a great deal for my project because I dont find all of these elements an attractive addition to a ship model anyway.  Its too distracting and busy.  In fact....you never see the separate pieces on almost all of the contemporary cutter models I have seen.  The stem is always one piece down to the boxing joint.

 

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Thank you for posting this part of the Cheerful drawing, Chuck. This detail was not to identify on the small picture I have.

 

 

The Alert is much younger also so this may not even be applicable.   

 

You confuse me. The Alert is from 1777 and I thought that the Cheerful is from 1806.

 

 

[Chuck]

Oops I meant earlier......wrong choice of words. 

[mcpwilk]

How's progress?

 

Mike

[AnobiumPunctatum]

Slowly, in the moment I am drawing all frames. The parallel frames will be finished this evening, then I start drawing the 21 cant frames.

[AntonyUK]

Hi Christian.

There is nothing wrong in going slow. Wait till you my age.. You have no choice

I have done some drawings of the Alert using the anatomy in Illustrater format that can be exported to PDF .. Did you want me to post them here. Might be of some use to you.

Have done the Deck, side view and a few small details.

 

Regards Antony.