Can i live without a BYRNES TABLE SAW

[mtaylor]

I think Bob's problem with dust is that he's got a full-size table saw.  The bottom is open unlike our modeling saws which are basically a box.

[Roman]

Hmm, it seems that I've created a challenge for myself.   Well ok, but right now I'm installing new arbor bearings in a 1956 Yates American table saw - a battleship-quality instrument

 

But what I'll tell you about what I've noticed, is that although a tablesaw is wonderful, but other times it's a waste of time to set up and it blows dust everywhere.  I'd guess that for many modelers, that they have limited space to pursue the craft, and maybe they'd like to enjoy the craft with other persons in the room, who might not be enthusiastic or comfortable in a big shop environment. 

Bob those are beautiful castings on that table and simply elegant. These saws were ahead of their time. It reminds me of Inca saws, nothing overdone but wonderfully engineered.

 

Roman

[Bob Blarney]

Yes, it's mechanically elegant, with very chunky phosphor-bronze pivots for the acme-threaded elevation and bevel screws and the arbor bracket too.  The action is extremely smooth with no noticeable backlash, and unless I'm making a super-critical cut, it's not necessary to lock down the handwheels, either.  It just stays put. 

 

There's a couple of other things worth mentioning too. I leveled the entire saw carefully on a even, sturdy flat base (I didn't just set the saw on an uneven floor with the wings flush to the top), because over time (months/years) the top will tend to warp.  Also, the cabinet is sitting on a 1/2" thick polyurethane floor mat, which absorbs vibration very well, thus making for smoother cuts and less noise.  I also lubed the mechanism with Tri-Flow, which dries out to leave a teflon coating that doesn't gum up with dust.

 

I would like to paint the top's underside and cabinet's inside with Rustoleum white or safety yellow, because it makes it much easier to see if adjustments are needed or if something - e.g. the arbor nut - falls down inside.  But unfortunately it's winter and I don't like to sand and paint with Rustoleum inside the basement.  I am making a blade shroud with a dust port to extract dust more efficiently.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Bob Blarney

[flying_dutchman2]

If the price is comparable, go with the Byrnes. You won't regret it! If the price is not comparable, go with the Byrnes. You won't regret it!

LOL....... "Everyone, repeat after me".

Conclusion of this thread. Get a Byrnes saw if it is a "table saw" you are looking for and the precision you need for the production work. This topic was discussed in last weekend's club meet and it was agreed by the pro builders. ""GET a Byrnes saw".

Marc

[flying_dutchman2]

Bob,

I'm milling planking... 1/16 X 1/8, 1/32 X 1/8 and 3/32 X 3/16 (all dimensions in inches).  I'm using my table saw as there isn't any other way to do this that I can see.  The wood is ebony and swiss pear.

Is there a lot of waste (saw dust) percentage wise? I am assuming the waste would be as much as the width of the blade.

1/32 x 1/8 - that is amazing. It is accurate all along the plank you are cutting out?

Marc

[flying_dutchman2]

Last club meet there was a member who got a NEW DOUBLE MULTI-CLAMP HOLD IT PLUS from www.vanda-layindustries.com. Beautiful piece, solid and holds the dremel well into the clamps.

 

 

 

So my next power tool will be the Acra mill press from vanda-lay. I will be able to do many things with that. Furthermore, as I said before and I have other wood hobbies (building clocks and intarsia)

 

The router table display is similar to what Byrnes is coming out or is already available. Dremel has one as well except for much cheaper, but essentially does the same thing.

Solid Aluminum Construction

•Large 1/4”X6”X8” Table

•Fits All Dremel & Simular Moto Tools

•Route, Shape, Sand, Grind

•Mount Or Clamp To Any Work Surface

$110.00

[dgbot]

When I still had access to my model I used the Byrnes' saw quite a bit. Not a lot of dust.  The waste went into the bottom of the saw.  I went between that and my Preac because I did not liking changing the blade.  I brought some salvaged dieboard maple home to cut down for fixtures.  This stuff is 5 p;y and if remember about 5/8 thick.  The saw went through it like a hot knife through butter,  To me it is  must for any one who wants to either scratch or bash a kit.  Just be careful of your fingers and use safely.  I have to wear a dust mask and will be using it in the back basement when I return.  You will find many uses for it with the proper fixtures and jigs. If you have ever watched the Wood Smith Shop on PBS you can see all the uses a table saw can be put to.

David B

[Bob Blarney]

This might be of interest:

 

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/Binding/MacRostie_Binding_Trimmer.html

[mtaylor]

Is there a lot of waste (saw dust) percentage wise? I am assuming the waste would be as much as the width of the blade.

1/32 x 1/8 - that is amazing. It is accurate all along the plank you are cutting out?

Marc

 

Yep. (short answer).   It's eating the wood for the kerf and thicknessing takes it's share. On that, I thicknessed the planks to 1/32 (they were slightly thicker) and then cut in 1/8 wide using .20 kerf blade (230 teeth).  

 

It seems to be accurate. I spot check about every 4th plank or so.  The key is to make sure everything is locked down on the saw.

 

I'll be starting the blade eater (ebony) later this week....but luckily, it's only the two 'larger' sizes.  For those, I bought billets and cut them into planks on the full size saw.  I'll be running them down to what I need for wales, railings, and a few of the smallest size for planking the stern above the counter.  It will either be a PITA or fun.. not sure yet.

[mtaylor]

Don,

 

First.. if the Micro-Mark are Dremel brand, don't.   Get the size of the blade and look at Thurston or find a Dremel on the one of the online markets.   I have an MM table saw and their blades just don't last so I've been using Thurston and the Thurston's are actually cheaper.

 

As for the tooth count...  etc.   The 24 tooth probably has offset teeth.  This allow fast ripping of thick wood without clogging the teeth.  The slitting blade has the teeth all in a line.  Works fine for wood that's not very thick.  Check this page at Hobbymill.  There's a great page on blade selection:  http://www.hobbymillusa.com/byrnes-saw-operation.php   I've found that changing the blades for the appropriate tooth count really does make a difference.

[mtaylor]

Here Don: 

 

http://www.thurstonmfg.com/index.html   that's the home page.

http://www.thurstonmfg.com/cut-off-saws.html  I use these.

http://www.thurstonmfg.com/jewelers-slotting-saws.html  and these for smaller sizes.

 

Your best bet is to contact them directly prices.  I've found they're less expensive than some the reseller out there.

[mtaylor]

Don,

Their blades have various size holes.  I'm not sure how the blade mounts to the Dremel.. or the size of the Dremel arbor or the diameter of the blade.

[sfotinos]

I also find that a 4 3/8 Freud Diablo blade is a must have....

 

http://www.amazon.com/Freud-D0436X-Cordless-20-Millimeter-Reducer/dp/B0002TUFAO

 

Shawn

[cg451]

Boyd,

 

Although this is not a current thread, when I saw it (and the associated replies to your inquiry) I felt one more opinion wouldn't hurt. My background is Irish, so I know what it means to be frugal. That also means when we purchase something we should buy the best we can afford to do the task at hand (and in the future) instead of buying "cheap" and struggling with the inadequacies of the underpowered, inaccurate, and junk-like item.

 

My goal is scratch building, and one of my passions (almost 50 years now) is building furniture. My shop is populated with all the needed equipment, and I know each tool intimately--along with its strengths and limitations. The Byrnes tools are superb quality, and they fill the gap between my furniture-making tools and my scalpel. Do I appreciate and use my Byrnes tools? Absolutely! Do I wish I'd not spent the funds for them? Absolutely not! Every day in the shop is an opportunity to use one of these magnificent tools and smile broadly at the quality of work I'm able to produce with them.

 

We Irish must stick together , and I hope the above helps you in your decision making.

 

Bill

[GLakie]

What Bill said!  Having both Scotch and a little Irish in my family I'll just relay what my Grandfather used to tell us. "You're Scotch enough to get out there and make it, and Irish enough to get out there and spend it."  

[Q A's Revenge]

Is there anyone on here with both a full size and miniature table saw? I ask as I'm wondering about the safety aspect of using the smaller saw. Full size table saws seem to be regarded as one of the most dangerous wood working machines with several workers in the U.S. loosing digits every week. Does the Byrnes have a riving knife for example or is it not needed on a machine this size?

[shihawk]

 Thanks Bill and George ,I realised long ago  that everyone can be traced back to Ireland ,if you go back far enough, and why not .!!!!!! When i started this thread i had more or less made up my mind to buy a Jim saw but like always i like to talk it out a bit before committing  . The cost of postage etc finally put me of and due to £ to euro exchange rate i finished up buying the Proxxon   240/E bandsaw and the fet table saw for a lot less than Jims . Postage was £12. 50 for the two  . I must point out that this was a purly financial purchase and i have no doubt that Jims saw is a great machine and well worth the money if you have the work for it ,which brings me to my next point .I have used the band saw quite a bit and like it well . the fet saw i have set up but not really used at all ,in 6 weeks, which was why i was wary of spending so much on Jim,s saw in the first place . If all goes well my next build will be scratch and as time goes on and i gain more experience i may well yet splash out on the ultimate saw , the BYRNES  when i find the need for it and learn more about what i could actually use it for ?

[GLakie]

Boyd, I have a bandsaw, but it's a 10", and I got that one for re-saw work (cutting sheets). The table saw is not only going to be used for slicing planking and timbers, but for doing joinery on coamings and deck furniture. Handy for sure.

 

@ QA---  I had a full size table saw and got rid of it for the Byrnes. Both can hurt you of you're not careful and plan your moves ahead of time. The Byrnes doesn't have a riving knife but there are other ways around kickback.

 

Cheers 

[mtaylor]

Is there anyone on here with both a full size and miniature table saw? I ask as I'm wondering about the safety aspect of using the smaller saw. Full size table saws seem to be regarded as one of the most dangerous wood working machines with several workers in the U.S. loosing digits every week. Does the Byrnes have a riving knife for example or is it not needed on a machine this size?

 

Many of us have both because both have their purposes and uses.   Both are dangerous.  I do believe though, that practitioners of this hobby are probably a more careful lot since we're under no time constraints and we're trying to produce as perfect an output as possible.  Also, I think most of us wouldn't fire up a power saw if we weren't feeling 100% and focused. 

 

The injuries in the workplace are a different matter entirely due to pressures to produce, to show up for work even if sick, etc.

[dgbot]

I have the Preac and the Byrne's.  And I treat them both with a great deal of respect.  The Preac is by my table for many of the small cuts that need a razor saw and the Byrne's is by itself waiting for when I have to break down some larger piece of material.  I do not like changing blades and this is the best way to do things.  I treat both with respect.  One can give a nasty cut and the other can take your finger off.  I have cut through 1/2 5 ply maple used for slide rule dies with it.  And this stuff can bog down a band saw plus you will need a new blade when you are done.  My golden rule and one sing loudly at work is to have respect for your power tools and a little bit of fear will help you to keep your fingers.  A bit of common sense safety rules help out as well.

David B

[Modeler12]

I don't have a Byrnes table saw, but I do have a nice milling machine. I use it to rip boards and can get to within pom 0.001 inch in thickness.

Here are some pictures of my set-up. The mandrel was given to me by a shop that did a lot of machining of aluminum honeycomb. It uses a 1.5 inch diameter saw blade (available from Thurston) and has a very thin washer on the base. I can go down to 0.020 inch and up to about 3/8 inch in width.

Notice that the aluminum table I made becomes the 'fence' and the two heavy angle pieces are now the 'table'. Raising the mill (z axis) changes the thickness and the y axis controls the depth of cut. Once I have the correct settings, I lock the three axes in place and every thing is very rigid. The variable speed of the mill is also a benefit.

   

 

I have another table saw with a three inch Thurston blade that I use for miter cuts and other flat cutting. That one was adapted to an old Shopsmith. Hence I can go back and forth without having to set-up every time I need to rip another piece.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Modeler12

[gwish]

Hi QA,  

 

I have both a large table saw and the Byrnes table saw.  Like was mentioned above, both are dangerous and should be respected.   One note, on the Byrnes, most of my cuts are really shallow,  1/32 to 1/4 inches( I keep the blade only high enough to complete the cut), so if I were to slip and get snagged by the blade it would certainly hurt and probably require stitches, but I would think I would still have my digit.  Unlike the larger saw, where the blade might be above the table an inch or even up to three inches, if a slip were to happen, a digit might be totally cut off.  

 

Just remember, they are power tools and no matter how small, they can still inflict serious injury.

 

Gwyl

[cg451]

Fellow tool appreciators,

 

Safety is an absolute must, and I learned early on the truth of that statement. My first table saw was a tilting table saw (the blade stays vertical and the table tilts--illegal in some places because of the danger). The second day using that saw was my first kickback, but I had been coached never to stand directly behind the blade. A piece of oak, about 10" long and being cut to about 2" wide got stuck between the rip fence and the blade. As you can imagine, the wood was launched almost horizontally off the table, flew by me, and penetrated my 1" thick garage door.   After almost 50 years of furniture building I still have all my digits and other body parts, and this is because I am SAFE when using any power tool. Although the band saw is IMHO the safest tool in the shop, it can still get you in trouble. When I purchased my 24" band saw years ago, the salesman said, "you can saw a Buick in half with that saw!" and I don't doubt it. The shaper is the most dangerous tool, followed closely by the jointer--again IMHO. The tools we purchase and use correctly are (as has been well-stated earlier in this thread) an extension of our hearts, and they allow us to do the best work we can. I enjoy and respect all my tools, and they permit me to accomplish tasks with precision that would take much longer with hand tools. Also, they are FUN to use :D .

 

Bill

[monkeysarefun]

My first saw  (1978 or so...) was a  36 tooth slotting saw blade mounted in my dads 1960's Black and Decker drill fixed to some kind of horizontal mounting stand that he had for it. I think the stand was meant to use the drill as a grinder or something.

 

I'd bought C Nepean Longbridges book about building  HMS Victory and I thought that a model of the Victory  would be the perfect  place  to start  my ship modelling hobby.

 

I built a dodgy saw table around the drill  out of Mecanno (spellcheck has underlined Mecanno - is that not a known US thing? If it isn't then  its a metal kids building system -  Google it for more info) There was no safety guard and I only had wood bought from the local hardware shop to choose from.

 

I think I ended up using western red cedar. Maybe because it was softwood I still have both hands.

 

 The planked hull is still sitting in my shed, looking exactly like somethnig made by a 15 year old as a first attempt using hardware shop timber cut  with a killer saw made from a childs construction set...

 

What has this to do with the thread topic? I am not too sure but I do now have a Jim Byrnes saw and a full size table saw, which is one of the questions brought up in this thread.

 

This is my full size tablesaw and its brilliant because a standard circular saw turns into a precision table saw.   Is the Triton (or similar)  saw table available in the states?

 

 

Its an Aussie thing and is awesome and what makes it better is that everyone buys one and never uses it and sells them cheap on Ebay a few years later so like me you can get a bargain.

 

The only issue is the waste due to the saw blade widths. So when the Oz dollar was buying more than the US one I bought a Jim Byrnes saw. The postage to Syndey was in the hundreds of dollars but even with that it was cheaper than getting a Proxxon one locally.

 

And it is sooo  good. I use mainly local timber -primarily  Tasmanian -  eg Huon pine - and  given that it only legal source is from lumber yards scavenging from already fallen trees,  its rather expensive, but the bigger the plank size the cheaper it is. So I use the Triton to rip large planks into  sizes that the Brynes saw can manage.

 

And the Byrnes saw IS amazing. Not just using it but everything about it -  moving the fence, tightening the machined thumbscrews, feeling the quality... I'm not a plastic hater but not having anything plastic just makes it even better. I don't know why - it just does!   Just geting my Byrnes  saw out and setting it up  brings a smile to my face. I do remember the postage cost a bomb, but I'd buy another one tomorrow.

 

I think basically theres an equation you need to answer - cost vs satisfaction. I certainly don't need a Jim Byrnes saw, but I feel that the satisfaction I get using it outweighs the cost (even the outrageous shipping...)

 

That said, I still look at my unfinished 36 year old HMS Victory hull and am  amazed at what I did with a Black and Decker drill, a slitting saw and some Meccano.

[mikeaidanh]

Time served and time taken.You earned the right to appreciate the Byrnes Saw.

 

Mike.

[monkeysarefun]

Thank you Mike!

[Howie]

I can feel with you Boyd.

Three weeks ago I asked myself the same question and my answer was "yes I can live without a Byrnes saw, but I don't want to".

The parcel tracking system says that it should arrive today - the door bell could ring at any moment now.

 

Of course there are other saws that can serve the same purpose, but in the end it comes down to what makes you feel good. My take on this issue is not so much if I probably would not use that saw so often that it would "pay off" but rather if my budget still will allow me to buy things that actually are more important but not so "sexy" like this nifty tool.

 

Cheers,

Markus

 

P.S.

Now, 57 minutes later: door bell rang, it's here!

[Howie]

Could you please tell me how much it cost for shipping to uk

[Howie]

Has anybody got a jim bryne table saw to sell

[Nirvana]

Now wait Howie..... I am first on that list! lol