Newsworthy updates from Chris Watton

[Murphys77]

Hi Chris, perhaps you could consider developing a kit of a ship like the Lenox, well documented, drawings are avaliable and a model of a ship like that would definately fill a hole in the market. These older ships seem to be left to the scratch builder, but with all the carving and decoration it is a very daunting task, certainly scares me off from attempting it, with your skill and passion for detail I think you could develop a fantastic kit which I think would be commercially viable. I know you have redeveloped the Prince kit and I have read a couple of times you would like to build Euromodel's Mordaunt, why not go a little further and build the Lenox!

I would just like to add that i used the on-line hobbies site a few times, service was fantastic and the variety of stock amazing, so good luck to your wife in her new job, she is certainly missed at her old one.

By the way, the Victory looks fantastic, whatever you decide for the future good luck with it

M.

[chris watton]

I have more than considered doing the Lenox, I have bought no less than two copies of The Restoration Warship for just a future project - I also have Prince to do, which may in fact be next on the list. (I have recently re designed that one so that it has the same method of gun port construction as Bellona and Victory)

 

Side and rear profiles:

 

 

ETA - Thank you so much for your kind comments regarding the website.

Edited June 16, 2013 by chris watton

[NMBROOK]

Go on Chris,you know you want to,Prince next,please please please.Just out of curiosity,how accurate are the original Amati plans I have?I know the decoration along the rails is inaccurate,but how about the overall hull lines?

Kind Regards Nigel

[chris watton]

Go on Chris,you know you want to,Prince next,please please please.Just out of curiosity,how accurate are the original Amati plans I have?I know the decoration along the rails is inaccurate,but how about the overall hull lines?

Kind Regards Nigel

Not accurate at all. I used the plans taken off the original 48th scale model in the Science Museum. I am not sure what was used to get the lines off the old Amati plans - but I don't think it was prince.... 

[NMBROOK]

You would of thought it would of been easier for the designers of the original kit to start with the correct plans rather than start from a blank sheet of paper.It would interesting to know what has become of the science museum model,since the ship display has gone and alot of the models have been returned to their owners.

Kind Regards Nigel

[overdale]

I have more than considered doing the Lenox, I have bought no less than two copies of The Restoration Warship for just a future project - I also have Prince to do, which may in fact be next on the list. (I have recently re designed that one so that it has the same method of gun port construction as Bellona and Victory)

 

Side and rear profiles:

 

 

ETA - Thank you so much for your kind comments regarding the website.

 

 

Nice to hear you are considering Restoration period ships Chris. They are so elegant, but appear to be very under represented in terms of kits.. Is there a marketing reason for that?

[chris watton]

I think more than anything it is the amount of carvings that put manufacturer's off. To do them well (as opposed to nothing more than oddly shaped blobs of metal coated in crappy bright paint) costs a lot of money. I want the new carvings/castings to be resin, as this shows more definition and the parts are easier to manipulate if need be, to follow the hull lines - although I am sure that when some open the box of cheaper kits, they'll still think they're getting more for their money because the bright shiny blobs of nothingness look like jewellery (from Claire's Accessories for the UK readers....)  

Edited June 16, 2013 by chris watton

[st george]

Chris,

 

you seem to be a mind reader. My favorite ship has always been the Prince and I would love to do a model of her one day. Also the Lenox would be a great subject to model. Did you see my post  on this site about her?

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/2273-build-the-lenox/

[chris watton]

Chris,

 

you seem to be a mind reader. My favorite ship has always been the Prince and I would love to do a model of her one day. Also the Lenox would be a great subject to model. Did you see my post  on this site about her?

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/2273-build-the-lenox/

Yes, I did, that's great news. The mid to late 17th Century ships are amongst my favourites - I love the curves, lines and slightly more modest decoration, compared to the overblown froth to help sate king's complexes that dominated the earlier century (Yes, Sovereign, I'm looking at you!)

[Jaxboat]

Your comments on restoration period ship models are interesting. I totally agree that the answer is resin casting. Not cheap I am sure but more accurate.

Jaxboat

[overdale]

I think more than anything it is the amount of carvings that put manufacturer's off. To do them well (as opposed to nothing more than oddly shaped blobs of metal coated in crappy bright paint) costs a lot of money. I want the new carvings/castings to be resin, as this shows more definition and the parts are easier to manipulate if need be, to follow the hull lines - although I am sure that when some open the box of cheaper kits, they'll still think they're getting more for their money because the bright shiny blobs of nothingness look like jewellery (from Claire's Accessories for the UK readers....)  

 

I would imagine the 3d printers coming online now should make it far easier to produce high quality prototypes of elaborate carvings. I agree resin is certainly the best option for detailed castings.

 

This is an interesting thread on the subject.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1990-stern-gallery-of-santissima-trinidad/?hl=printing

[chris watton]

I would imagine the 3d printers coming online now should make it far easier to produce high quality prototypes of elaborate carvings. I agree resin is certainly the best option for detailed castings.

 

This is an interesting thread on the subject.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/1990-stern-gallery-of-santissima-trinidad/?hl=printing

Yes, it is quite exciting to realise what can be produced on the 3d printers.

 

However, with the economy in the state that it is, right now I still prefer giving the work to talented individuals who can carve by hand - which I am sure will soon be a dying art due to the new technologies becoming more mainstream and affordable. (That is of course, if our governments don't bankrupt our nations first and send us all back to the Stone Age....)

[ianmajor]

Chris,

 

I applaud your sentiment. New technology is good for churning out repetitive items but to my eyes it all comes out cold, efficient and lifeless. It is the small variations that are produced by the craftsmen which produce the warmth and life around models. The same applies to music - compare a studio pre-recorded concert with "lip synching" artist(?) with a genuine live performance - high tech versus real talent - I know which I prefer.

Edited June 17, 2013 by ianmajor

[willz]

I think we soon have to deal with the question of how much  technology to use to help in our hobby  . Are parts made with a 3d printer really a good thing? Of course, is it any different then resin casting or even Britannia metal fittings? If you use a digital milling machine is that less authentic than using pure hand tools? What will define a true "scratch build" in the future.

Jaxboat

a true scratch build now theres a question, think to be honest theres very few. personally i think if everything is made by the modeller then thats a true scratch build no matter what tools they use electric or not, to prove a point the pic below shows the victory emblem and the band that splashes across the stern, they were both made with hand tools and the aid of a dremel, the are both unique and one offs, so in my opinion they are 100% scratch

Edited June 18, 2013 by williamDB

[overdale]

Very good point Jaxboat,

if complex fittings are currently keeping manufacturers from providing modelers with the subjects they want due to cost, why not use the technology to broaden the subject matter and perhaps expand the number of people in the hobby?

 

If a figurehead takes a week to carve, why not get it made by 3d printer and free up that week for other work?

 

The choice is largely whether you want to spend your time on increasing your skill level or your output.  Neither is a bad thing.

[Bummer!]

Remember that a 3d printer is not some magic machine that you press a button and out comes a figurehead or an ornamentation for whatever model you are building. If I want the figurehead of Pegasus I still have to model the figure in 3dStudio max or Cinema 4d or whatever software I use at the moment.

 

Buying a synthesizer is not the same as knowing how to play or write music.

[Kevin]

Remember that a 3d printer is not some magic machine that you press a button and out comes a figurehead or an ornamentation for whatever model you are building. If I want the figurehead of Pegasus I still have to model the figure in 3dStudio max or Cinema 4d or whatever software I use at the moment.

 

Buying a synthesizer is not the same as knowing how to play or write music.

that may be the case - but the point i think they are trying to make is - the work only has to be done once, and once only, then you have mass production of the same thing, no individuality

Edited June 19, 2013 by Kevin

[Decoyman]

 

 

that may be the case - but the point i think they are trying to make is - the work only has to be done once, and once only, then you have mass production of the same thing, no individuality

But that's no different to where we are now, with mass-produced castings. In a kit it's inevitable that mass-produced techniques are needed. With a scratch-build one-offs are needed more often than not, and Seasick is right to point out how much work is involved in creating the computer model before the 3D printed component is produced.

[WackoWolf]

The points that are made about the 3D printer as to not being the easy button is true by all means. It is like a computer it will only output what is inputed into it. You still have to make the CAD drawing of the part or parts that you want made. Now in order to do the CAD drawing you need to learn the software and that is a whole new ball game, I know that for a fact. Just ask anyone who designs in CAD and they will tell you. Some people find CorelDRAW to be easy well thats good but there is still a learning curve and then there are some things you can not do in that program because it is not a true 3D CAD program. Everyone thinks its easy, well if that was the case everyone would be doing it. Now don't get me wrong I think 3D printing is going to be the future in this business, but you will still need people to make the drawings, and right now not everyone can afford a good 3D printer, and then also afford a good CAD program, some people like 3D Max me I like SoildWorks take a look at the price for SoildWorks, heck you can get AutoCAD from "Tiger Direct" and that goes for $3500.00 for the newest version. It will be a long time before things get a little cheaper and with the ways things are now people losing jobs and so forth I don't see it happing for the hobby person, I do wish I was wrong but I am sorry to say I am not. There is a heck of a lot that goes into making a kit, and the better you try to make it the more it will cost. I do want this kit of the Victory but just think of what the price is going to be, dam I am going to have to cut out at least one coffee and donut a day and still not have enough to pay for the kit LOL.

Edited June 23, 2013 by WackoWolf

[Kevin]

a whole week has gone by - and i feel like i have been shot as the messenger - i was trying to reflect the point taken that the one off craftmanship item will become extinct faster - thats all - but it is always my quote that is being posted- oh well - that life, - and now i dont remember the original question 

 

i dont see that this tech will help - how can it - someone makes a good original - someone copies it just by a 3d scan (oh such a lot of skill in that is'nt there) and sell the data to china to produce the mass market - only this will happen faster now - rant over

Edited June 23, 2013 by Kevin

[WackoWolf]

Kevin made a good point, with 3D printing it will be easy for anyone to copy someone hard work and then make money on it. Like what has happen with Chuck. So in some ways it will back fire on the people who do all the work in designing a part or parts.

[Captain Slog]

a whole week has gone by - and i feel like i have been shot as the messenger - i was trying to reflect the point taken that the one off craftmanship item will become extinct faster - thats all - but it is always my quote that is being posted- oh well - that life, - and now i dont remember the original question 

 

i dont see that this tech will help - how can it - someone makes a good original - someone copies it just by a 3d scan (oh such a lot of skill in that is'nt there) and sell the data to china to produce the mass market - only this will happen faster now - rant over

Hi Kevin I don't think you have been shot as the messenger but I think the thread has gone off track slightly.  I also don't believe that new mass production technologies will kill craftmanship.

 

The thread I was following was about the design and construction process of a prototype for a mass produced KIT.  If new mass production technologies can give us clean, crisp detailed mouldings, carvings or whatever instead of the usual blobs of metal then we as KIT builders can only benefit.  If Chris pushes for the best method for the best carvings etc then that can only be a good thing...unless the additional cost pushes it outwith the reach of many.

 

Craftmanship is associated with scratch builders who pick one ship and (typically!!!) only make one investing thousands of hours over, in some cases many years.  Mass production doesn't come into it.  He will carve each piece individually as needed and if he can't carve will learn to and then show us all here craftmanship!  I can't see a scratch builder investing thousands of dollars on machinery and software and then learn how to use it to create the one piece he needs for a stern detail or whatever.

 

If I live long enough to get into a full scratch build then I for one will pick a ship with no carvings or learn how to carve.  A lot of trial and error blocks of wood thrown on the fire is cheaper than the production methods needed not to...then I to may reach craftmans status LOL

 

Finally I can't see Amati or any of the established kit manufacturers paying for CAD designers to produce a CAD program/file for mass production only to sell it to the Chinese...aren't we trying to stop that?

 

Anyway my 2 cents, don't usually post on such topics but I was enjoying this thread immensely.  Hope to see more of Chris's stunning work.

 

Cheers

Slog 

[Jaxboat]

I think we soon have to deal with the question of how much  technology to use to help in our hobby  . Are parts made with a 3d printer really a good thing? Of course, is it any different then resin casting or even Britannia metal fittings? If you use a digital milling machine is that less authentic than using pure hand tools? What will define a true "scratch build" in the future.

Jaxboat

All

For the record here is my original post. The responses have been varied, well reasoned and spirited.  I do feel a little guilty that my question has turned the thread away from Chris Watton's glorious proto type.  However, certainly one of the pleasures of this blog is to share ideas and points of view on what our hobby is and isn't with those who are most passionate about it.

Jaxboat

Edited June 23, 2013 by Jaxboat

[ccoyle]

That said, let's get this thread back on topic, shall we?  If anyone wishes to further pursue the discussion of 3D printing in the hobby, please start up a new thread.  Now, back to Chris and his updates!

[Jaxboat]

Amen!    

[WackoWolf]

AMEN!!

[popeye2sea]

Can I get an Amen and a Hallelujah!      

[Jaxboat]

Hi chris

How goes the prototype?

Best

Jaxboat

[chris watton]

OK, I got back this morning from a few days away. I completed the boats before I went and here's the results (I made a mistake of the 34' launch - the stern goes too high because I designed the stern board with the top strake incorporated into it, but because I'm an idiot, I had forgotten this when it came to planking. I have since re-designed the stern board so it's more obvious where the upper hull planking should go - but I simply haven't the time to rectify it..)

 

 

 

The Vallejo paints really seemed to work well in hiding the fact that these parts are photo etched brass:

 

 

 

I know the rudders would not be hung in place on the stowed boats (and impossible for the 18' cutter), but I included them anyway:

 

 

Cutter was 'clinkered':

 

 

All four boats done:

 

 

And dry fitted in place:

 

 

With hindsight, I should have been a little more careful regarding the placement of the stanchions near the boats, they are a little too close to the edge, so the boats are bunched up a little more than they should be...

 

ETA - I did think about adding another two cutters, but there seems to be conflicting info on these, plus they are clinker planked, too...

Edited July 1, 2013 by chris watton

[Kevin]

lovely work - well done