Golden Hind (ex-Pelican) by Baker - FINISHED - scale 1/45 - Galleon late 16th century

There are no plans, no drawings and no paintings of the real ship. I just find a few etchings of about 1600 - 1620 on the internet and they are both different.

On the internet there are plans . They are of Aeropiccola, an Italian company that no longer exists.

I think the scale is abouth 1/50

http://www.john-tom.com/SailBoatPlans/GoldenHind/golden_hindSm.pdf

They looked great in the beginning.But the more I look at them, the less good they begin look ...

It seems as if the hull is too wide and the shape of the frames dont match the shape from those of Matthew Baker (A well-known shipbuilder from this period)

But :

It looks like nobody knows If this ship was a real "race galleon" or just an armed merchantman (privateer).

Before we start

Were the guns placed below dek or on the dek?

I believe that all the guns were lined up below deck. And not on the deck like with most Golden Hind models.

Guns on the deck may cause an unstable ship . And on the models there is not enough room to absorb the recoil of the guns and too reload them.

So

Mi first step is to try to build a hull with:

A shape that has enough space to absorb the recoil of guns. But is not too wide

Has place for 14 cannons below deck

Has 2 light guns in the forecastle.

Has 4 light cannons in the rear castle.

Apparently it looks if there is only one ship wreck from this period is found. Called "the Princess Channel wreck” or “the Gresham ship”

In this period many newly built ships were so unstable that the hull had to be adjusted immediately. With the aid of Girdling: (making the hull wider at the water line). Or furring ( make the hull below the waterline wider). Actual evidence of this was found in the Gresham ship.

http://www.maritimearchaeology.dk/downloads/Furring%20in%20light%20of%2016th%20century%20ship%20design_web.pdf

http://www.maritimearchaeology.dk/downloads/Full%20thesis%20bates.pdf

Even on the replica of the Golden Hind the hull is widened at the waterline.

I use plywood, ramin ( the pieces of ramin wood are old leftovers from construction works in our house 20 years ago) an cherry wood (from a tree that came from the garden)

And the keel of the Golden Hind was laid on a sunny day the 10th of september.

Barbossa · September 13, 2016

Good start , really looking forward to your progress.

No shortage of tools & equipment, I notice

Louie da fly · September 13, 2016

Good luck with it. There'll never be an exact replica of the Golden Hind unless someone gets a time machine and goes back to have a look (and take photos, measure up etc). Whether she had a stern gallery, what her colour scheme was - all conjecture. But it's certainly possible to make a model of what she could have looked like and not be too far wrong.

She may not have been a new ship in 1577, as Francis Drake renamed her on the voyage - she'd been the Pelican. According to Wikipedia, she was 100 feet long.

You already have Mathew Baker which is probably your most reliable source, but (though these are not English), you might also look at the SO-1 wreck (see here) and the Red Bay wreck which sank in 1565 (see here and here. (there are also other websites available if you do a bit of a search). And the Swedish warship Mars, sunk in 1564 here

And there's a thesis here on the evloution of hull design in sixteenth century ships of war which has some useful information in it.

Have fun!

Steven

Edited September 13, 2016 by Louie da fly

WBlakeny · September 13, 2016

Hope you don't mind having me along. Interesting project!

The Revell "Golden Hind" was one of the first models i've built as well, about 25 years ago.

Richard Griffith · September 13, 2016

Hej Backer, good start~!

You might to also check out the excellent work by the late Raymond Aker (d. 2008).

His research and plans were published in "Ships in Scale" March 2008 V. XIX #2 and May 2008 V. XIX #3.

Duff

Baker · September 13, 2016

Thank you all,

Cristian

i bought the Bosch saw recently to make a "bee hotel".

I saw a similar in-store, price: 995 euros.

Now I have a Bosch saw and a bee hotel, price: 213 euro ....

Steven and Duff

Thanks for the info.

I found already the thesis on the evoloution of hull design. But not the other sites.

By viewing this thesis there is little chance that my model will get a stern gallery.

Chris

Always welcome

Now, on with the stem.

More pieces are sawed and glued.

After drying, the whole piece is sanded a first time.

Now the paper keel is glued to wooden keel

And after this , the grooves for the frames can be sawed out

Edited September 18, 2016 by Backer

md1400cs · September 13, 2016

Patrick,

Excellent start indeed. I will also grab a chair and follow along. Will there be any of that good Belgium beer in your cooler? (:-)

Cheers,

Baker · September 20, 2016

The keel is finished and sanded a second time.

The scarf joint between the keel and stempost and the two parts of the keel are simplified versions.

The hull under the water line will be painted later and they will be hardly visible.

This is how a real scarf joint looks like on an 16th century English ship

A building slip is made

Now we can begin with the frames.

The original frames of the drawings will not be used.

The length and width dimensions between keel, beam and waterline are( fore me) wrong.

They have already been sawed. But shall end as firewood for the stove.

New frames will be made

A new (paper) frame has approximately the right shape and proportions.

But first

Now it's time to study, to think, to draw and to make new frames.

Groetjes

Greetings

Patrick

Edited February 23, 2017 by Backer

Baker · October 4, 2016

Hello,

First. I changed the name of my build log in too

“Golden Hind : A English galleon late 16th century” (Seems more appropriate)

New frames are drawn on paper and cut out.

There are now more frames used on the bow and the stern than first planned

Then the frames are drawn on plywood and sawed. The beam is 4 cm narrower than the one on the plans.

The hull proportions are

KEEL / BEAM : 2.80

DEPTH / BEAM : 0.50

All the frames are made too high ( sawing off a piece of is easier than to glueing on)

Reinforcements are sawn from plywood and glued to the keel.

The frames are not glued yet. But are now temporarily attached to the keel. So i can see if they fit and that outside can be sanded where needed.

When the outside is sanded, the frames are removed again so that the inside of the frames can be sawed out.

The sawing of the inside of the frames can begin.

I made myself a simple tool for this .

The first frames are aligned and glued.

All the frames are now aligned and glued.

Visible parts of the frames on the upper decks will later be replaced by solid wood.

It looks like I go in the right direction I think.

The shipyard is now temporarily "on hold"

Autumn and winter period is for me : military modeling.

But I remain of course to follow MSW.

Groetjes

Greetings

Patrick

Edited February 23, 2017 by Backer

Barbossa · October 6, 2016

Great Job Patrick : I lile the trick with the pencil.

Come back soon !

VACorsair · October 6, 2016

Patrick, Very interesting build, research and discussion. Learned so much in just one page!! Sailors' salute to you and everyone that contributed to the discussion so far. :dancetl6:

Stan

Baker · October 8, 2016

Well, the shipyard is on hold. But here is something to disscus about.

Before drawing the frames i had 2 difficult questions :

1 . What are the dimensions and tonnage of the Golden Hind?

Well, even Wikipedia does not match

wikipedia (in english): length (deck) 31m, beam : 6.1m, tonnage 100 - 150 ton

wikipedia (in german): length 37m, beam : 5.5m, tonnage ,? ton

Most sources say 100 and 120 tons. Occasionally 150tons, and somewhereone I found one

that says 180 tons.

The length is between 31 and 37 m.Length on deck 25m.

So no one really knows the right answer.

2. What is the scale that I'm going to build?

And what will be the dimensions and tonnage of the Golden Hind compared too the scale i am building

After some calculations. The scale of my model will be 1/45.

Too calculate the scale and dimensions i used the help from a formula.

Keel x Beam x Depth Keel x Beam x Depth

----------------------------- = Tonnage or (the easy way) ---------------------------

Keel + Beam + Depth 100

And 1m = 3.28 feet.

My model is :

Keel 0.42m - Beam 0.15m - Depth 0.075m - scale 1/45

Keel = 0.42x45x3.28 = 61.99 feet

Beam = 0.15x45x3.28 = 22.14 feet

Depth = .075x45x3.28 = 11.07 feet

This gives following dimensions

Tonnage : 161 tons or 154 tons with the easy formula.
Length on deck will be : 22.95m = 75.27 feet
Length of the hull will be 32.6 m = 106,92 feet
Overall length will be : 37 m = 121.36 feet
width of the hull will be : 6.75 m = 22.14 feet
Depth will be : 3.37m = 11.07 feet
ratio keel / beam : 2.8

How to get between the 100 to 120 tons and retaining the length of 31 to 37m (like mentioned in most sources).

By reducing the beam and - or depth.

Suppose :

Keel = 0.42x45x3.28 = 61.99 feet

Beam = 0.13x45x3.28 = 19.19feet

Depth = .065x45x3.28 = 9.6 feet

This gives 113 tons or 114 tons with the easy formula.

But in doing so, the ratio keel / beam changes to 3.23

If you compare the studies about the Gresham ship, furring and ship building in the 16th century.

Than a keel/beam ratio of 3.23 leads almost to a “crank ship”

A logical consequence is that a ship of that length with 100 to 120 tons is quite narrow and maybe not stable. Especially if you then put all the guns on the upper deck. As on some ship models.

Unless one increases the depth drastically. in order to increase the stability.

I was never a highly educated student (now also not). But :

A ship that could sail around the world and could conquer a bigger Spanish galleon. Must be seaworthy and should by a stable platform to fire his guns.

If anyone thinks that I am completely wrong about this

Please let me know. I have all winter to think about it

used links for this study

http://www.maritimearchaeology.dk/downloads/Furring%20in%20light%20of%2016th%20century%20ship%20design_web.pdf

http://www.maritimearchaeology.dk/downloads/Full%20thesis%20bates.pdf

http://www.wessexarch.co.uk/files/PMA41.2Auer-Firth.pdf

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/pdf-files/Myers-MA%201987.pdf

http://www.patrimoniocultural.pt/media/uploads/trabalhosdearqueologia/18/22.pdf

http://www.bricksite.com/uf/40000_49999/48372/7e570040536647340b5566f37c70ca11.pdf

Groetjes

Greetings

Patrick

Edited February 23, 2017 by Backer

Louie da fly · October 9, 2016

I doubt anybody ever measured the Golden Hind's length - I believe all those figures would be rough estimates, and probably the tunnage is too.

I agree with your statement

A ship that could sail around the world and could conquer a bigger Spanish galleon. Must be seaworthy and should by a stable platform to fire his guns.

. Let Mathew Baker be your guide and use your best judgment and you'll probably end up with a model closer to the real thing than anybody else has ever built, even if all the small details are different.

Steven

Edited October 9, 2016 by Louie da fly

Baker · October 16, 2016

Thanks everyone for following my build log.

And thanks Steven to match with my vision on the dimensions.

Well, now I need some help.

I can not find what the height of the cannon deck (orlop deck) should by.

Does anyone know the height between 2 decks

I think it is 1m60 (The average length of a man in the 16th century)

Groetjes

Greetings

Patrick

druxey · October 16, 2016

Small point, Patrick: most model hull reconstructions of this time are too deep at the stern. The transom's lowest point should be just under the waterline. If it's any lower, then the rudder action is impaired as water won't flow past the upper rudder properly. Check the Baker drawings.

Baker · October 17, 2016

Thanks for the info about the stern.

have checked this and will certainly change this later

the book looks interesting.

I ask it for my Christmas at the Admiral.

Now,

The whole idea behind my question about the height of the deck

I want open cannon ports

And I don’t like the building method as in my Wasa (black holes with semi cannons).

That's why I want a deck with enough detail. So, that if you look through a porthole. You do not see black hole with a part of a cannon. But a real cannon and a deck.

I hired an assistant. He is 1m60 tall, very cheap and is satisfied with no room and no food.

But. A deck of only 1m60, is too low he thinks .

but there is still plenty of time to think about this

And good news

Yesterday we had beautiful weather and no family visits or jobs

So, there was wood sawed and the part where te deck is too be attached is sanded to

So that I can start with my deck in my hobby room. Without having to make a lot of dust...

so Mrs. Backer stays happy also

Groetjes

Greetings

Backer

Robin Lous · October 17, 2016

I don't think you need to worry about sufficient head room, they didn't build for comfort.

I've seen decks with even less head room (Batavia).

Love your build!

Robin

Baker · October 17, 2016

Thanks,

Visiting the Batavia is on my wish list.

Maybe next year.

Index : see post 1

Groetjes

Greetings

Patrick

Edited February 23, 2017 by Backer

Baker · November 21, 2016

Hallo,

First.

A replica is build of the Spanish galleon San Juan.

Great site and beautiful work

http://www.albaola.com/en

Now : The orlop deck, planking and hatches

Most of this deck will not be visible when the ship is ready.

I see this work as an exercise to gain experience in deck planking.

And if someone looks through a cannon port or a hatch. This will give a better view.

There are little or no archaeological finds of decks from English galleons.

Only from one ship wreck.

One frame was cut out to low. this was adjusted.

A first layer of planks is laid and sanded. In order to obtain an even surface

The waterway is been placed.

A possible layout of the deck

There may be only 12 cannons installed instead of 14 (the helm can possibly be in the way)

hatches to the lower cargo space

Every time I looked at frame 1. I got a headache ....

So frame 1 was improved.

Much better now. No more headache

The second and final layer of planking is placed and sanded.

I was so absorbed in this work that I forgot to take pictures while planking the deck

Now to to the dummy frames that will be visible in this deck

1 test assembly of frames and a gun port was made

I'll just lay one layer of planks on the hull

So

The next step is to fill the space between the lower part of the frames.

And adjust the frame of the transom

But it is too wet and cold outside in my garden

to do this

And I have no indoor space where I can turn on my sawing machine

So back to plastic military modeling.

Index : see post 1

Groetjes

Greetings

Patrick

Baker · February 19, 2017

Hallo

The shipyard is restarted.

I have started to fill up the space between the frames.

When one side is finished there will be A more detailed update.

Index see post 1

Groetjes

Greetings

Edited February 23, 2017 by Backer

Kurt Johnson · February 19, 2017

Patrick,

Glad to see you're back. Looking forward to more updates.

Kurt

Baker · February 20, 2017

Thanks,

I think that this is the replica that now lies in London. The hull is widened

Build in 1973 i think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmJRWq5g4o8

Work on the first side is going well

And the badly made frame at the stern is almost in correct shape.

index see post 1

Groetjes

Greetings

Edited February 20, 2017 by Backer

pollex · February 20, 2017

Hello Patrick;

With reference to the "Golden Hind", I bought a set of drawings from Glasgow

many years ago (30?) which were drawn by the late Harold A. Underhill. He named

this set of drawings, an "Elizabethan Galleon" HAU was an excellent draughtsman.

His details are very interesting. They were sold by "Brown, Ferguson & Son"

I'm sure you'll find them on the internet. Regards, pollex (Calgary)

Baker · February 26, 2017

Hello

The upper ends of the frames are provided with supports.

So that they can be less easily damaged.

I started with the filling of the lower space of the frames ( i think "fillerbloks" is the correct word).

Wooden pieces are sawn to length.

These pieces are then made at approximately the right shape.

And glued between the frames

A few frames also had to be adjusted.

One side is filled up, and can be sanded.

One side is sanded

I used this machine to sand the rough shape

Some test planking is attached (looks ok)

The frame of the stern has been modified and should now have better shape (thanks druxey).

One side is done and seems to have the proper shape below the waterline

Bakerfish.jpg.df656ebb121002dcdaf25d9197659fdc.jpg

One side to go.

Ps,

I had picture uploade problems, see :

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/15445-images-size-fixed-at-12-px/

Groetjes

Greetings

md1400cs · February 26, 2017

Patrick,

Very nice start. Looking very good.

Cheers,

Barbossa · February 27, 2017

Hi Patrick

This is very nicely coming allong.

Frames & inner structure are super and very instructive to me

Keep up the good work

Baker · February 27, 2017

thanks Michael and Cristian and everyone watching this

When the fillerblocks are ready on both sides. I will start with building up the frames. ( It is my intention to make the inside partly visible through open doors and windows)

Before I can do this, I first need to determine the final shape

I now have plans and images for 4 different Golden Hinds….( Yes 4 )

The final shape will probably look like this

Groetjes

Greetings

Baker · March 16, 2017

Hallo,

The filler blocks are placed on the starboard side.

Because sanding with the sanding machine is faster the blocks are not made in advance in to the proper shape.

This is now probably the most ugly hull ever shown MSW…..

A few minutes of sanding and the shape is already better.

If you want to do this in the same way
Do this outside. This makes a lot of dust ....

Now further filling and sanding until the desired shape has been achieved.

The lower part of the hull is ready for planking.

My first goal was to try to build a hull that has probably the right shape

Below the waterline it looks to be in order

next update : frames and gunports on the cannondeck

IMG_20170316_105834.jpg.a1c712b46e5f1ffda0a86c15902a498e.jpg

index

VACorsair · March 16, 2017

Patrick,

Zeer goed tot nu toe !!

-Stan

G.L. · March 17, 2017

Patrick,

Your hull looks very smooth.

G.L.

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Golden Hind (ex-Pelican) by Baker - FINISHED - scale 1/45 - Galleon late 16th century

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