HMS Pegasus by Landlubber Mike - Amati/Victory Models - Scale 1:64

[Blue Ensign]

Nice T&B along the hull Mike, I think I would think long and hard before I took the knife  to the wale curve around the stern at this point, there is some shaping to the outer surface to meet the lower planking.

 

B.E.

[Beef Wellington]

I still have to shape the bottom corner of the wale at the stern.  I feel like it curves too deeply across and under the stern counter.  The shape of the plank seems correct when i look at TFFM, but it looks a little funky on my hull when looking at it from the stern side.  I almost feel like I have to change the contour of the end of it as indicated by the red lines in the picture below.  If anyone has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them!

 

Aft end of wales.jpg

 

Wow, you're moving fast Mike but looking great, think you're correct.  I spent a long time trying to figure this out but I took a less authentic approach.  I think in TFFM the suggestion is to use a thicker piece of wood and shape the inside to the contours of the hull which would then allow you to shape the outside.  It seems that the inside curve is very tightly concave, but the out side much less so to continue the outside of the wale more vertically.  Believe the last plank was shorter for this very reason in that it would have been a highly custom piece of timber.  Doing all this and leaving an appropriate face for the regular planking needs some fiddling I think.  Will leave you to ponder...

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks guys!  BE, you're right about the curve along the stern.  I'm going to make a template out of paper to make sure that I have the shape right.  Otherwise, I can see myself going through a lot of wood and dropping a lot of naughty words - not good with Santa watching before Christmas...

 

Jason, I saw that Martin took that approach on using a thicker piece of wood and shaping it.  He did so with good results.  I ended up using my standard 2mm thick wale plank, cut a longer piece than needed, and did a couple of rounds of soaking and pinning to get the curve around the hull.  The longer length helped to give me leverage to twist the plank during the soaking/pinning process.  I then cut the plank a tad longer and square so that I had material at the stern to shape it into a nice curve. 

 

As people are pointing out, what messed me up was not running the plank above it (the second row) up to the counter.  Took me a while to figure out what was obvious to most people    I think I can shape a little pear plug into that spot, and then smoothing the curve down to that lower plank, should be the trick.

[Landlubber Mike]

Just wanted to wish all my friends in the US and around the world a Happy Thanksgiving (or equivalent holiday).  Best wishes to you and your loved ones!

 

I have a 19 pound turkey outside in the smoker cooking away, and wife and in-laws are working on the sides.  Will open some wine and in a couple of hours, will be passed out on the couch in a turkey coma watching football.  

[mtaylor]

Mike,

I  think that curve around to the counter throws a lot of us off and into "blue air" mode.  You are not alone. 

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks for vote of support Mark 

 

I've made some good progress on the second row of top and butt planks.  I've installed the first three planks of the row - no pictures yet, but I'll post some after I finish that last aft planks (which will take some time as I figure out how to address the wale issue at the stern counter).

 

The plank at the stem on the second row is a real pain.  The plank immediately above it is a drop plank, so the plank on the second row ends up filling that gap.  Took me quite a bit of time to create the plank.  I used card to approximate the shape, and then cut the planks slightly larger and spent a lot of time chiseling/sanding and test fitting.  Thankfully the two sides were pretty comparable, so I had a good template for the port side after the starboard side was completed.  

 

Here's a picture of the starboard side plank - you can see how complicated the shape is.  Glad I got them done - I now have to repeat on the stern side, but then won't have any more drop planks to deal with 

 

 

[mobbsie]

Hi Mike,

 

I like your tenacity and patience to get it right mate, it's a credit to you.

 

Your planking when complete is going to look superb.

 

Be Good

 

mobbsie

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks for looking in Mobbsie.  Hope all is well with you, my Badger Brother

 

Too bad a lot of this planking will be covered with copper plates!  It's been good practice for my Lyme build though, where I plan to leave the full hull in natural wood (no copper plates or white stuff).

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions on the aft end of the wales.  The mistake was not extending the second row up higher.  Not sure why I had taken that approach (maybe because there is a railing that runs across the bottom of the stern counter and into the wale?), but I ended up filling the gap with some custom fit pieces of pear, and sanded a nice curve into the aft end of the wale.  I think it definitely looks better now.

 

 

So this weekend, I've finished what are probably the most complicated planks on the hull - the planks in the second row leading to stem and leading to the stern.  Here's a picture of the port side stem plank:

 

 

Here are some pictures of the stern planks (some more sanding and finishing is needed, but it's late and I've been at it for a while tonight).  Like the stem planks, this plank needed to take into account the drop plank above it.  What made it more difficult is that the aft end of the plank also had to account for the hull curve up to the stern counter.  Rather than use two separate planks, I decided to try and create one plank to fill that space like in the TFFM plans.  Like the stem planks, I started with making a template from card, cut out the plank a bit oversize, then used an X-acto, chisel and sandpaper to slowly shape the final plank.  After a few hours, I had my first plank.  Like the stem side, I was surprised at how close that plank fit on the other side of the hull, so used that plank as a rough template come up with the second plank.

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, here is a picture of the hull after the first two rows under the wale were installed:

 

 

So with the first two rows done, the middle portion of the hull to the copper line is done.  I have about four more rows of planks at the stem, along with another 10 or so rows at the stem.  I'll probably just do partial planks on either side that will show above the copper line, and fill in the remaining hull with the kit walnut planks.  Just doesn't make sense to me to spend hours and good quality pear wood planking the full hull when most of it will be covered with copper plating.

 

Thanks for looking in!  

[ianmajor]

Mike, Your planking is looking great.

 

From your photos you seem to have a lot less clutter around you when model making than I do!

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Ian.  I have to confess that most of my work on the planking has been on my kitchen table and my living room ottoman    My "workshop" is in the basement utility room, so no TV or adult beverages close by.  I generally use my power tools down there, and then bring up whatever tools I need upstairs.  With little kids running around and an Admiral to take orders from, I have to keep the main areas of the house neat.

 

Don't worry, my workbench in the basement is a mess

[Martin W]

Hi Mike (and my best post-turkey wishes to you and yours!) -- That planking just looks fantastic! I'm really impressed that you mastered the spiling technique so quickly and with such fine results.  You're absolutely right that the curvaceous hull requires some extreme shaping, and the T&B had to have given you another challenge on top of that.  In the end, this will be a hull that draws people's eyes just for the interest in the planking.

 

As for the work space, I would strongly urge you to put a fridge down in your cellar (and why not a TV too?).  I have a dedicated beer fridge in the safe room where I work, and it means that I have no more than a single step to a cold one.  Of course Mrs W occasionally expresses horror at what she chooses to deride as the "clutter" of the area, but I'm old enough to go deaf at critical moments. 

 

Cheers -- can't wait to see more progress!

 

Martin

[usedtosail]

Very nice planking Mike. Very complicated stuff that you look to have mastered.

[riverboat]

Nice work!! Mike..... look'n good

 

Frank

[Landlubber Mike]

Hi everyone, happy holidays and new year to all my friends out there 

 

Quick update on where I am with my Pegasus.  I'm just about done with the section of the hull below the wales that will be above the copper line.  I've decided to do that section in pear, and stain it black.  Rather than waste a lot of pear that will ultimately be covered in copper plates, I'm using the kit walnut for the non-visible section.  I've completed the pear planks for the stem, and am just about done with the pear planks at the stern.  I have one more plank to add up to the stern counter, then a few more planks down stern post that will be above the waterline.  

 

I'm following the planking pattern in TFFM. It's amazed me at how precise the kit is relative to TFFM and the NMM plans.  Also, the walnut planks used in the Amati kit are world's better than the planks used in my Caldercraft Badger kit, which was very splintery.  Walnut might splinter more than a tighter grained wood like pear, but the Amati walnut is nice and tight. It's too bad that the variation in the color amongst all the walnut pieces (especially between the walnut ply pieces), as I would have just used the walnut rather than go with pear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm getting a little better at spiling, as the later planks are tighter against the planks above.  The pictures above are with the planks pre-finished, but I think after some sanding and a couple of small areas that can use a drop of glue and some sanding dust, the planking should come out pretty well.  Spiling certainly takes a lot of time, but I think the effect is really nice.  I won't lie and say that it hasn't been nice to lay long planks of walnut down to cover up big sections of the hull at a time though 

[Martin W]

Nice progress, Mike.  I certainly know what you mean about both the time involved in spiling and any possible relief from it.  Possibly one of the biggest issues in spiling -- or planking generally -- is the effect one plank will have on others a few rows later on. 

 

Happy holidays to you and your family.

 

Martin

[mtaylor]

Coming along nicely Mike.  Yep... spiling is time-consuming but worth the effort. 

[Landlubber Mike]

Finally finished the second planking below the wales!  I still need to clean up and define the edges of the wales at the stem and stern, but I'm pretty happy with how things came out.  I got better with spiling as I went along, but the early planks finished nicely.

 

 

 

 

 

Next step will be to stain the wales and the section of the hull to the copper line black.  Above the wales I'll have pear stained a darker brown, pear stained blue for the friezes, and then a line of redheart planks at the top of the hull.  So, I plan to stain this section black first, as I don't want to get black stain on the planks above the wales.

 

Thanks for looking in!

[mtaylor]

Neat and clean work, Mike.  Spiling is fun isn't it.    I'm looking forward to seeing everything stained. 

[ianmajor]

Mike,

 

That looks a very neat piece of work, particularly around the rabbet.

[donrobinson]

Looks fine Mike, your work is going to look great when the finish is put on  

[Beef Wellington]

Really nice result Mike...must get back to my own planking which is really starting to look like Frankenstein's Monster

[Martin W]

Fine work, Mike.  I'm especially impressed by the neatness of the planks butting up to the stern counter -- that part gave me serious fits with all the spiling and bending.   The red heart along the top will really be a stunning touch, and I can't wait to see it.

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

[Landlubber Mike]

Many thanks guys.  I spent yesterday finalizing the sanding job.  It was 25 degrees F yesterday here - for whatever reason, I seem to always be sanding the hull on the coldest days of the year.  Ian, I'll have to give more thought to gluing sandpaper to my mittens to avoid frostbitten fingers

 

Martin, thanks for the tip on the Lee Valley mini chisels.  I used them to chisel better definition for the wales at the stem to really great effect.  Then, I sanded the hull back with 320 and then 400 grade sandpaper, and the hull is as smooth as a baby's bottom.

 

The moment of truth came last night when I used General Finishes Black Stain for the wales and lower hull.  I'll post some pictures later, but it really came out beautifully.  I was a bit concerned that the black might be a little different between the pear and the stem (which is MDF), but everything came out perfectly even.  The GF stain was very quick and easy to apply, and doesn't bulk up like paint - instead, you get a very nice smooth finish.  The nice thing about the GF stains is that they seem to have paint-like qualities in full, even coverage, yet apply in a thin coat like stains.  I'm very excited to add stains to the rest of the build.

 

Speaking of stains, I tried out GF Blue Stain on boxwood and compared it to the pear.  As expected, it came out a little lighter, but not as bright as when applied to the maple.  I'll have to figure out what combination of brown and blue stains/woods to use for the upper hull, but I'm getting excited to see the model take shape.

[Landlubber Mike]

A few questions before tackling the upper hull.  

 

1.  I was going to cut out a hole in the bulwarks for the quarter badge windows to add a little depth.  I also saw on the TFFM plans that there are blocks midway along the hull in the bulwarks.  Does it make sense to cut those holes now, and then add the planking around them to get an even finish?

 

2.  Does it make sense to make the holes for the scuppers and anchor cables now, or is it easier after the the final planking is on?  Unlike the blocks above, it seems like the holes for the scuppers and anchor cables are easy to drill all at once when the planking is added.

 

3.  Should I frame the gun ports and sweep ports now?  Like the blocks, it seems like I can get a cleaner finish around the hull if I start them now.

 

4.  Anything else I should consider at this point?

 

Thanks in advance!

[JohnB40]

Happy New Year Mike,

 

I have been away for the holidays so it is nice to catch up on your Pegasus build.......Great progress and lovely construction on the hull and counter planking,you must be well pleased to have finished this major phase of the build. 

Edited January 6, 2016 by JohnB40

[mtaylor]

Tough call on the what's first, Mike.

 

I try to do my ports (and anything else such as blocks) if they are behind the planking or if there is a lip such as for the port lid.  Careful trimming of the plank at installation then becomes imperative.  If the item is flush the planking, I'll hold off until the planking is done so it can be sanded into place.  Then again, there's the caveat at the bottom of this...

 

Scuppers, etc... are probably best done after planking.  But again.. some do it ahead of time and then use the hole to guide the drill/knife to the proper place.

 

Caveat:

It's more of a "do what makes you comfortable" type of thing.  A good example is that I'm holding off drilling my hawse holes until the gun deck is installed.  Some do it earlier, even before the planking.  I'm more comfortable waiting until I know everything is lining  up properly. 

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Mark, it's always good to bounce things off other people with more experience before starting something  I'm inclined to agree with you on doing the ports and blocks now, especially given that there is a lip for the port lids.  Seems easier to install the lining now, sand it back on the exterior hull and bulwarks sides, and then line the exterior hull planking right up to the edge of the port lids.  Less fussing about getting clean lines on the port lid linings.

 

I spent some time yesterday looking at the quarter badges.  The kit displays them as flat, built up a bit with the decorations that involve 2 or so layers of photo-etched parts.  The end result is really nice, but I'm thinking of making the quarter badges a bit more three dimensional, with the upper and lower stools popping out a bit more.  The plans don't show whether the quarter badges were flat or not, though TFFM suggests that perhaps only the Vulture was that way.  Flat would be much easier, as I think I would have to custom carve the upper and lower stools, especially to add the decorations, and possibly change the windows a bit to account for more of a bow window configuration.  The badges don't extend past the edges of the stern transom, so I could probably get away with carving the stools using 5mm pieces of wood.

 

Realworkingsailor did this to nice effect on his Pegasus which you can see here:

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/24-hms-pegasus-by-realworkingsailor-victory-models/?hl=%2Bpegasus+%2Brealworkingsailor

 

 

The next question is what to do with the kit decorations.  I'm very tempted to go ahead and use the photo-etched parts as templates for carving the decorations out of wood (mostly using boxwood).  I'm leaning that way because like Blue Ensign, I'm inclined to not use the photo-etched "Norman knights" on the edges of the stern transom and come up with something else.  If I'm stubborn enough to not want to use paint (nice thing about paint is that it would keep colors consistent despite differences in materials), then all the decorations should end up in wood.  I think with some practice I should be able to carve most of the pieces, especially having the photo etched parts to serve as templates.  Further complications though as to what to do with the friezes and figurehead.  I might actually go ahead and paint the friezes.  I'm really worried about gluing on the friezes and messing up the finish on the wood underneath, since I would be able to cover the extra glue spots with paint.  Painting shouldn't be too bad, and TFFM has some helpful tips on what to do (e.g., paint the base color, then accent the highlights and lowlights using other colors).  I could also use the transfer paper technique, which I was thinking of using the the name of the ship at the stern.  Then of course there is the question of how good at carving will I be when it comes to the figurehead  

 

Lots to think about - going down the road of avoiding paints certainly makes things more complicated.  Ultimately, this might end up being close to a mostly custom build.  

[Martin W]

Hi Mike -- Glad those chisels came in handy. 

 

As Mark says, the procedural order that makes you comfortable is the one to follow.  On my Fly, I believe I laid down the outer planking first, and then set in the port linings so that the linings would have something to rest against.  And the way I worked with them was to cut and install the bottom pieces of the linings first, since they would determine the length of the side pieces -- FFM points out that there is no top piece of the lining, which makes matters simpler.  I also stained the 3 pieces of each lining before gluing them in.  I used 1/32" stock, and didn't worry too much about the width:  once I got the 3 pieces in, I trimmed them all flush with plywood strip in order to bring the inner bulwark planking over them, covering their edges.

 

As for the quarter badges (which I have barely even begun to think about), you might go look at Alistair's log of his Fly, since he labored on his badges for some time, and worked out a number of nice details.

 

http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/2797-hms-fly-by-aliluke-amati-164/page-17

 

Glad to hear you're planning on carving the stern decoration.  I've started on my own, but haven't worked on it for a while.  It's probably a good idea to get some decent modelling clay to practice with and to work out the basic problems of details like what planes make up a face.  When I started on the carving for my Rattlesnake, I got Bill Short's really helpful practicum on power carving (you can find him here on MSW).  For the carvings on the Fly, however, I'm considering trying to fabricate some ultra small ("teen-incey" I believe is the Latinate technical term) carving tools from pins & needles.  So far, every "micro" gouge I've bought and tried out has proven to be much too large for the scale we're working in.

 

Like you, I used the General Finishes black stain on the wales.  And like you, I'm pretty happy with the result, though did find that it obscured my T&B planking just a bit (I was going to show it off to the carpenter doing the remodelling on my bathroom, and couldn't get it to show up  ).

 

It's always good to know there's another Swan modeller laboring away!

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

Edited January 7, 2016 by Martin W

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Martin, that's really helpful information.  I'll have to think a little more on how to proceed with the linings.  I'm going to use redheart, so at least I won't have to worry about staining such tiny pieces.  

 

I like the look of the GF stain but I think you're right that some of the detail is obscured.  I'll have to take another look at it.  It's tough to do it like the pros if you spile the planks tightly and then try to sand everything back so that it is smooth.  I imagine that the pros spile each plank perfectly, so that there is very limited sanding that needs to take place afterwards.  I saw one technique from a master who added a very slight bevel to the edges of the planks to keep that tiny bit of separation between them.  Anyway, for the upper hull planking, I'm hoping that using a brown stain will darken the borders of the planks to help highlight the planking.

 

Thanks also for the link to Alistair's build.  I forgot he modified the quarter badges.  Doesn't look like it's too difficult to modify things there - tricky part will be whether do carve the decorations into the stools as one piece, or carve them separately and add them to the stools after.  Given that I will likely stain the stools black and use boxwood for the decorations, I'll probably end up doing them separately.  If thin enough, hopefully the decorations can be molded around the contours of the stool.  I'm trying to figure out when these should be installed, as I want to get clean joints between the quarter badges and the hull, as well the quarter badges and the rails.  For me, at times this hobby seems to be 90% planning and prep work, and only 10% actual work. 

 

I bought Bill Short's practicum also, and need to go through it.  I bought a number of different Dremel bits, but like you, I'm thinking that they might be too large for some of the ultra-fine detail work.  I bought some carving bits from a bonsai outfit to use on my bonsai trees, but they also are a little larger (thankfully, i can use the bits from both hobbies interchangeably).  What is holding the most promise for me right now is that my brother, who is a dentist, just sent me a number of picks and probes and I think some scrapers.  For the kind of detail work he does (he is a root canal specialist), these tools seem to be perfect for very fine detail carving.

 

It's great to be at this stage of the build where I can actually start thinking about and working on the details!