Louie da fly
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Everything posted by Louie da fly
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That's the answer. Now all we need to do is find out what the question is. Steven -
Thanks Patrick and Fabio. Good luck with finding a place to stow the bars. That's not the way I see it. The miniaturist's job was to illustrate clearly what was going on as simply as possible. Introducing a banner with a cross above those known to be Muslims would just cause confusion. I just think he got it wrong. Not in the case of Byzantium. There were quite a decent number of secular histories written about this time, which though they gave lip service to the usual religious formulas, were pretty much simply records of what had happened. They suffer from the usual biases you get in "histories", but these tended to be political rather than religious - depends which faction you belonged to, or which political group. Steven
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The picture in my earlier post represents Thomas the Slav, who was making a bid to overthrow the Emperor and become Emperor himself, negotiating with saracens to get them to join him. Thomas would have had a flag to back up his claim to be Emperor. The banner with the cross on it is almost identical to that flying on the Emperor's own ship, and I think the illustrator who gave the saracens a flag with a cross on it must have been having a senior moment, and put it above the wrong set of horsemen. And then thought "Damn! Got it wrong! If I just pretend it didn't happen, probably nobody will ever notice . . . " Steven
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Thanks for the likes, everyone. Carl, it did cross my mind to make the ship weatherbeaten, like some of the amazing ships we see on this forum. But I'll have to keep that for future models. This one's supposed to be pretty. No, Pat. There's really nothing in any contemporary account or illustration. For heaven's sake, it's only an assumption that the word used in the sources for this thing really means what we think it does. The original Greek word translates as "fastener", or even "brooch". The triangular gussets sound like a good idea in hindsight, but I don't think I'll do anything about it. I think it would all be pretty strong in the real world - please note that each of the straps runs along a wale. The idea I have is that the straps are fastened at relatively short intervals to the wales (probably with nails or long rivets, but I haven't shown any fastenings because I don't think they'd be visible at this scale), and the forces of ramming would be transferred via the straps to the wales, which are among the strongest timbers in the ship. Steven
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Beautiful work, John. This build is a pleasure to follow. I'll have to find an excuse to come up and see the modelmaker's bench in operation in Sydney . . . Steven
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I've attached the "iron" (really cardboard) brackets for the spur and painted them to look like iron. First, a coat of black Then a thin layer of silver to make it look a little more metallic. I thought of doing some rust, but this is the Emperor's ship, and anyway the model represents it in brand spanking new condition. Here are the bars for the windlass all done. Still got to find somewhere to stow them when not in use. I've also found a banner that looks pretty cool. Again, from the Skylitzes Chronicle (mid-late 12th century). This one has a cross on it, known as a cross pommée or pommelée (like a pommel, the knob at the end of a sword hilt, that acts as a counterweight to the blade). This must be where the flag came from for the modern reconstruction painting that Nikiphoros posted earlier, but I notice they changed the pink to red - not manly enough, perhaps?). Still not sure if I'm going to use this one or the one on the ship in an earlier post, where everybody's hair is blowing in the wind . . (thinks: that would be a good name for a song . . .😉) [Edit] Can any native Greek speakers make out what the word is next to the group carrying the banner? It appears to be narakagoi, or perhaps oi rakynoi? (allowing for the 12th century handwriting), but I'm really not sure, particularly about the last few letters. I don't want to use a banner that turns out to be used by someone not Byzantine. [2nd edit] The word turns out to be "sarakenoi" = saracens, so obviously I can't use it. But so, why are muslims using a banner with a cross? All getting converted? Perhaps the artist just wasn't really thinking . . . Steven
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Beautiful work, Dick. I stand amazed at the thoroughness of your research and your ability to translate it into real-world modelling. Steven
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- nave tonda
- round ship
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How did I miss this until now? Very impressive, Peter. And very fast work without sacrificing quality in the slightest. At the beginning of the build you commented on whether or not you had put the log in the right place. I assume that's because you're not building the model exactly the same as the kit, with no rudders etc. No problemo - that's what we call kit-bashing, and is usually better than how it comes in the kit because the builder has invested more care and attention - and research - into it than the kit manufacturers were prepared to. I don't usually follow modern builds - I'm more a mediaeval/renaissance guy - but this build is really beautiful. Steven
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Looking good, Chris. Steven
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I'd agree with you - those floorboards look too far apart. I think moving them closer together would be an improvement. I can't see part 18 anywhere, so can't help with the balustrade. Maybe some pictures of the problem? I've got Roth's book and you're right, it does have its limitations. It was written over 30 years ago, and things have changed a lot in that time. The build is looking very good. I'm looking forward to seeing more . . .
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A very nice collection, mate. keep up the good work. Steven
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- mediterranean
- galley
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Thanks everybody for the likes. It does help getting them, particularly when things get difficult (such as when I discovered I couldn't have the full complement of upper oarsmen😠). Druxey, yes I'd already thought of that, and I sheathed the spur in fake copper alloy sheeting. (Archaeologists used to call this stuff bronze, but they discovered its chemical composition was so variable that it could just as easily be called brass, so they changed the name). Mine is made of aluminium foil from the little containers the cat food came in, then painted with Humbrol "bronze" paint. Not sure if it's because it was an old tin (I bought it from a toy shop) or the fault of the paint itself, but it was very gluey and unsatisfying. However, it did the job. The front surface of the forecastle is also sheathed. John Haldon's 2006 experiment with it made it very obvious that heat shielding was absolutely necessary, and you could see from the video that a spur would have got covered with the flaming stuff. Steven
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Beautiful work, Danny. A real pleasure. Steven
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Thanks for the likes and comments. Nikiforos, the picture is a "13th-century manuscript illustration of a scene from the 11th-century First Crusade. Within the initial 'E' is a ship carrying the Italian-Norman nobleman Bohemund of Taranto (c.1058-1111), and Italian bishop Dagobert of Pisa (died 1105), as they sail for Apulia in Italy. Bohemond was one of the leaders of this first crusade by Christian Europe to gain territory in the Holy Land. Bohemund founded a Norman monarchy in Antioch. Daimbert, with Bohemund's support, became Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem. The text is Old French. Artwork from a 1250s French edition of 'Histoire d'Outremer' by medieval chronicler William of Tyre (c.1130-1186)." I've installed the windlass - twice. The first time it was too far aft and didn't provide enough room for the first oarsman or two. So I dissolved the glue with isopropanol and drilled some more holes in the deck for the pins, and moved it forward, closer to the pseudopation (forecastle). It looks a little cramped for access to the pseudopation, but hey, it's a ship and sailors are good at getting into small spaces and around obstacles. I've also finally glued the spur in place on the bow. The model is getting complete enough to do this at last. I have yet to install the cardboard brackets which represent iron ones, connecting the spur to the wales either side of the bow. Probably in the next post. And I need to find a good place to stow the windlass bars, and make a couple of little ladders for the crew to access the pseudopation either side of the windlass. Lots of little details still to do before I can do things like add the lower oars, masts etc. And I've yet to summon up courage to make the 50 upper bank oarsmen. In fact, due to designing as I went along, there'll be only 44 of them because the poop deck ended up longer than in the original drawings, which didn't allow enough room for the "tent" and the steersmen. With the longer poop I've had to sacrifice the last three pairs of upper oars aft. Not much I can do about it so I just have to live with it. If I ever did a dromon Mark II I'd allow for this and make the ship just that bit longer, but it's not worth doing just for that. Steven
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Hi, I just came across this link which I hope is of interest. http://clandonald-heritage.hmstudiosllc.com/the-galley/ It's Scottish rather than Irish, but you might find it useful, particularly the sculpture with the ship on it. Unfortunately, there's no information on the date or origin of this artefact, but it's certainly very interesting.The towers on the castle look 14th century to me, and if the thing above the ship is a helmet, as I believe it to be, it is of a type (known as a barrel helm)which began to see use about 1250 and stayed in use for about 100 years. The text is rather partisan, and probably should be taken with a pinch of salt. But it brings up several references to Gaelic galleys before the advent of the Vikings. Oh, and following up on the seal shown in the above article, I discovered another link, with even more pictures of, and information about Gaelic (specifically Scottish) galleys - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alasdair_Óg_of_Islay And following up on Pinterest, some more pics, at https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/92112754860158326/ and if you click on the more interesting images they take you to subsequent pages with more ships of the same type. Hope this helps, Steven
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Greg, that's already looking good. I'm looking forward to another of your amazing builds. By the way, what size drill bit did you use for all those holes? Steven
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- graf zeppelin
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Looking really good, George. The quality of work, particularly at such a small scale, is really impressive. Steven
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- bomb ketch
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It's very annoying to have to re-learn lessons you thought you'd already learned. In this case - butt-joints aren't strong and will fail at the most inconvenient time! I supported the forecastle on two uprights set into the corners of the forecastle substructure (underneath) and standing on the gunwale with butt-joints. I was working on the third support, a knee attached to the stempost, when I knocked the forecastle and it came off! One upright stayed with the forecastle, the other stayed with the gunwale. So I've had to re-jig it all and put pinned joints in place of the butt joints. And to head off future disasters I've made pin-joints between the knee and the stempost. Serves me right for taking the "easy" way out. Actually, it's just as well because the forrard part of the forecastle was too low - it was resting on the delivery pipe for the Greek Fire siphon instead of allowing a small space below it. So, all good, but I should have done it right the first time😠. Steven
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And Nikiforos is "the bearer of victory". Rather appropriate, I think. Regarding AL - well, I've never made a wooden ship from a kit, so haven't had any dealings with them. Sorry to hear about the problem with the plans, but I think Mark's advice is good. And that you're kit-bashing means you're already half-way to the Dark Side (scratch-building) . . .😉 Steven
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Nikiphoros, what you've done so far looks good. The lack of plans is a bit of a problem - have you been in touch with AL to let them know they're missing? I should think they'll send them to you if that's the case (though I haven't any experience with them, I believe they're a reputable company and should be willing to help). I couldn't find the Web reference to the Caboteur nomme Sambouck that you mentioned. Do you have a link I could click on to find it? Just as a heads-up before you start making one, as far as I'm aware coffins at that time were shaped like this wider at one end than at the other, and with a lid like a "gabled roof". You may be able to re-arrange the contents of the boat so the mast won't have to be shifted, which is what I think they'd have done at the time. Otherwise the boat just won't be able to sail - the wind forces will be out of balance. Keep up the good work. Looking forward to further progress. Steven
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Yes, not problem, and certainly not irretrievable. As I understand it, this is the first layer of planking, so after a bit of bog and sanding, you get a second go at it, and can make it better in light of your experience first time through. I stuffed up (in my own opinion) on my dromon planking and it didn't have a second layer so I was stuck with it. But in the long run it wasn't as bad as all that and I was able to accept it and move on, and determined to do better on the next build. Steven
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Thanks for all the likes and the supportive comments. Here is the windlass; End pieces with fake bolts inserted. I made hem out of carved bits of wood: Then cut them off to just show the "bolt heads". The bolts to fix the windlass to the deck are made, painted and in place. Bars made and in place, and "bolt heads" painted black. All ready to put in place on the deck of the ship. As the windlass won't be in use, I'll be putting the bars in "storage" when the ship is on display. Steven
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More progress on the windlass. I've cut the square holes for the bars, and drilled holes for the pins/bolts holding the windlass to the deck. These will be made from tiny brass pins I got years ago - can't remember where, and I've no idea where I'll be able to get replacements if I need them again). As I can't get drill bits bigger than 0.38mm (too small) or smaller than 0.8mm (too big), I used one of the little pins as a drill bit. It's got a sharp pyramidal head which acts quite to drill holes. I've used it to drill the holes for the fake bolts holding the frame together, plus the ones in the ends of the spindle for the pegs to keep it in place. The pegs will also be made from brass pins; I'd intended to use them for the fake bolts as well but it's all too fiddly and I've decided instead to use wood or bamboo painted to look like iron. Steven
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That's a beautiful model, beautifully executed. Strange that the tower was so disliked by artists and architects when it was first built, as to our eyes it is a thing of beauty. But the writer Guy de Maupassant hated it so much he always ate lunch at the base of the tower, because it was the only place in Paris from which he couldn't see it. I've been up to the first level, but no higher (I chickened out). Steven
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