ccoyle

I edited your title to show the scale as 1:64 instead of 64:1. The latter would certainly make an impressive model, though!

Brian's point about ME pricing is worth noting. The seller should be made aware that he can't reasonably expect to use ME's MSRP pricing as a starting point. Over the years, I have seen many ME and MM models sold on eBay. Some of those older ME kits are still in production and pretty much identical to a kit being made now, so they should be priced based on what a current 2nd-hand, unbuilt, NIB kit could reasonably fetch. The price for anything OOP, and that includes all the MM kits, is going to depend on 1) the condition of the kit and 2) the subject. An old solid-hull Bluenose, for example, might not be worth much because the market's flooded with Bluenose kits, both old and new. An ME Forrester, on the other hand, is a rarer kit and only infrequently turns up on eBay, so it tends to go for a little more. Some of the really old kits might have some collector value, but what that value might be is going to require some research, like digging back through eBay's sold listings to see what the kit has sold for in the recent past. I think the seller should also realize that selling his kits as a single lot is going to cost him. Anyone who buys the whole lot with an eye towards reselling them is taking a risk; some kits are going to sell well and for a good price, and others are going to be hard to get rid of and will probably be worth little. The buyer has to take that into account if he's hoping to make a little profit, and that means he's going to have offer less than what the seller might be able to get if the seller sold the kits individually himself. Essentially, the seller will have to pay for the convenience of getting rid of the entire lot at one shot.

Por favor, que es necesario para publicar mensajes en Inglés . Utilizar un traductor de Internet, si es necesario. Gracias.

Last installment! Have you ever watched the show Pawn Stars on the History Channel? In this show, clients bring their treasures to the Gold & Silver Pawn Shop in Las Vegas, Nevada. The viewers then learn about the history of the item brought in and, ultimately, how much the item is worth. Most of the time, the owner hears that their treasure is not worth as much as they thought. Every once in a blue moon, though, some lucky owner discovers that their item is actually worth more than what they had estimated -- occasionally far more. But these instances are rare. Such is the case with model ships. There are lots of model ships out there in the world, but relatively few of them are worth much. Many are essentially worthless, at least in monetary terms. In this episode, we'll look further into what makes a model valuable. Let's suppose you have a model that you have decided looks like a real scale model and not a piece of mass-produced decor. Now you're hoping that since it's a real scale model, it must surely have value. Not so fast! There are models, and then there are models that people actually want and will pay good money for. To illustrate this point, I'm going to show you two real scale models. One is worth some money, and the other, sadly, is not. First take a look at this model. It's a model of a real ship, the English revenue cutter Sherbourne, built in 1763 (the real ship, that is -- not the model). You might be thinking that it's a nice model. You might even think that it's worth something. Except this is the cheap model. If you or I were to take my model -- I mean, ahem, this model -- to a gallery thinking we've got a treasure, we'd be in for disappointment. To you this model might look great, but to the keen eye of a discriminating collector or knowledgeable gallery owner, it's got problems. The biggest problem is that it's made from a kit. You might not be able to tell that by looking at it, but savvy modelers, collectors, and gallery owners will immediately recognize this fact. Because it's built from a kit, this model is also not unique. There are dozens, possibly hundreds, of finished Sherbourne models out there. Besides being made from a kit, it's also made by a modeler with middling talent. Again, you might think the model is done very nicely, but experts will spot the amateur workmanship right away. Some visible aspects of the model are not true to the original, and techniques were used to make the model easier to build at the expense of scale fidelity. All of these things are knocks against the monetary value of the model. But there's something even worse about this model: it's simply not what most buyers want. There are exceptions, of course, but the really pricey models out there, the ones that collectors are willing to shell out several thousand dollars for, generally have three things: Lots of guns. Lots of rigging (sails and cordage) Lots of fancy ornamentation. My model -- I mean, ahem, the previous model -- has none of these things. It has few guns, little rigging, and essentially no ornamentation. What could a seller expect to be paid for a model like this? If the seller is lucky (really lucky) and can find an actual buyer for the model, he might be able to squeeze a couple hundred dollars out of it. That's, barely enough to even cover the cost of the kit and certainly not enough to make modeling a profitable enterprise. Guns, rigging, fancy stuff -- that's what collectors want. Something like this model of HMS Thunderer: Why might this model be worth some dough? Consider the following: It has lots of guns (well, at least the gun ports for them). It has lots of rigging. It has lots of fancy decoration. It's scratch built, not made from a kit. That means it's a unique piece of art, not one of dozens of built-up kits. It's built to a high standard of workmanship. Someone who builds models like this has spent a lot of time honing his or her skills. Like any commodity, the prices fetched by model ships are based on two factors: suply and demand. Lots of people would like to own a museum-quality model. But the number of builders who can build such models is low. Furthermore, it takes a lot of time to build such models, so the output of them is low as well. High demand + low availability = high prices. For a model like the earlier Sherbourne, the equation is low demand + high availability = low prices. That's it in a nutshell. Like the folks hoping to strike it rich at the pawn shop, most model ship owners are going to experience a letdown when they hear what their 'treasure' is really worth. But cheer up - that unwanted model will still look good on your mantel, which can't be said for a Trabant! Cheers!

In this next installment of How to Spot a Cheap Model, I'll show you the difference between a mass-produced model and an actual scale model built by a master modeler. Once you know what to look for, the cheap stuff is not hard to identify (and by 'cheap' I mean poorly made, not inexpensive). We're going to examine the stern of each model, so that we can see up close what separates class from crass. Both of the models I'll show you are of the famous American warship, the USS Constitution. First we'll look at the high-quality model. This model is built from scratch in 1/48th scale. It was listed for sale at a reputable maritime art gallery. The price of the model was not listed. It's kind of like shopping on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills -- if you have to ask the price, you probably can't afford it. The fine craftsmanship of this model is everywhere evident. Note the detailed carvings, the meticulously neat painting, the clean run of planking, and the intricate web of rigging. True modelers endeavor to create models that are replicas of the original in every detail, with every part correctly proportioned. A great model looks like a real ship, only much smaller. Now let's look at the expensive kindling. This model was once available on-line for $535. The owner of the site claimed that the model was built by "master craftsmen" using "original plans". It was described as "highly detailed" and built from "high-grade wood" using "plank on frame" construction. Friends, none of those things was true. This model was probably built in either the Philippines or Vietnam by laborers who have never seen any plans of the actual Constitution. If they did see the plans, they certainly didn't follow them! The 'high-grade wood' includes western red cedar and mahogany, which are great for full-sized projects but not good modeling woods. When they say 'plank on frame' it is quite likely they mean 'plank on bulkhead'. That might sound like hair-splitting to the uninitiated, but they're actually two very different construction methods, entailing significant differences in both cost to produce and value of the finished product. And as for 'highly detailed'? Just look at the incorrect hull shape, cheap metal castings, simplistic window framing, coarse-grained wood, and adhesive name badge. And don't even get us started on the ship's boats hanging from the sides. This model is low-budget in every respect. It is crudely conceived and poorly executed. If the two models we just looked at were cars, the first would be a Ferrari. The second is a Trabant. So, if you have a Mystery Model, take a good, hard look at it. Does it look like a finely crafted miniature ship? Or does it look a bit rough? If it's the latter, then it's most likely not a unique piece of art. If you were hoping to resell it at a premium price, you'll quickly learn that its market value is less than you might have hoped for. Next: It's a real model, but so what?

I somehow missed the conclusion of this build. Congratulations on another very fine model! I will be watching your build of Dreadnought with interest. Cheers!

Like most of us, I have a list of 'dream kits' that includes ships that are probably not all that popular. But I do think that two of the suggestions already put forth have merit. First, I completely agree with the sail-to-steam transition period being both under-represented in the hobby and offering a wealth of attractive potential subjects. Second, I wouldn't mind seeing something like the current Caldercraft Nelson's Navy line, but featuring American sailing men-of-war. Wasp and Peacock have already been mentioned; cobble one of those two together to go along with Syren, add in a gunboat, a schooner, and a frigate not named Constitution, and you'd be off to the races. For the frigate, I'd suggest Chesapeake. Bluejacket currently has a limited run of Kearsarge and Alabama -- how about offering up a twin bill of Chesapeake and HMS Shannon? I think those would be good sellers. No matter what you decide on, Chuck, I know it will be a first-class production.

Okay, let's delve a little further into this subject. Let's examine a few Mystery Models and discuss what makes them something less than what they seem to be. Take a look at Mystery Model #1. This one doesn't need too much explanation. It is obviously a curio -- something a kid would buy at the gift shop at Mystic Seaport. When the child outgrows it, it might end up in a yard sale. But more likely, though, it will just get discarded. But not all cheap models are so overtly cheesy. How about Mystery Model #2? This one looks nice -- from a distance. Once you get up close, you can see that the fittings are not to scale and the workmanship is not great. This is clearly a decor piece. If you have a nautical theme in your office, and you don't want to shell out big bucks for a scale model, you might get something like this at the local home decorating store. You probably won't have much success at selling it to someone else. Mystery Model #3 is something we see a lot of around here. It looks old. It looks antique. It must therefore be valuable, right? Wrong. This is a classic example of an older style of decor model, probably made in Spain. Columbus' ships were especially popular subjects. Some might have a plaque bearing the name "Fregatta" (fregatta is Spanish for 'frigate'). Unfortunately, unlike perhaps a matched pair of Holland & Holland shotguns, these models don't appreciate in value with age. They just get old, like shag carpet and avocado green appliances. Now, to mix things up a bit, let's look at a model that represents a ship still in existence. First we have the model: And now we have the real deal, the bark Star of India, the crown jewel of the San Diego Maritime Museum. At first glance, the model does kind of look like the real ship. But once again, the devil is in the details. Look closely at the real ship. Now look at the model. Notice the difference in the cut of the sails and the way the sails are set on their yards. Notice how fine the rigging looks on the real ship and how chunky it looks on the model. Notice how the model doesn't even have the proper rig (it has square sails on the mizzen mast, the mast at the rear of the ship; the real Star does not). If you could see the model up close, you would see that the lack of fidelity to the original extends to the deck fittings as well. In short, the model is only a crude likeness of the real thing. Now, here's the kicker. At the time of this writing, the Star of India model was available to purchase on the internet for (wait for it) -- $999.99. I kid you not! And, sadly, it's kind of like a new car in the sense that once you drive it off the lot, its value plummets. "But wait," you might say, "I bought this model for $999.99, so it must be worth at least $999.99, right?" Um -- no. In the first place, no one is going to pay $999.99 for your now-second-hand model when there are tons of brand-new ones available on the Internet. Second, I, at least, am certainly not going to pay that much for it, because I know where I can get a brand new model just like it for less than 1/10th of what you paid for yours. Ouch! In the next installment, I'll cue you in on what model ship buyers really want in a model and how much they might be willing to pay for it. Until then!

I'm not at a point in my life where I can commit to a group project, but I would be keenly interested in a C A Thayer build somewhere down the road.

Hi! On a fairly regular basis, we here at MSW receive requests from new members for help with identifying a ship model, such as something like one of these: The request usually looks something like this: Now, we are happy to help you with this request, but since we get asked so often, I thought it would be good to finally put some info on mystery models in one topic thread so that you can maybe find your answer before you post. Here are some basic things you should know: 1. Many, many models have been built over the years for the sole purpose of serving as decor or memorabilia. This would be a model purchased at, say, Sea World or Home Goods. These models are usually built to low standards in parts of the world where labor is relatively cheap. Once upon a time, southern Europe was a hot-spot for their manufacture. Nowadays most such models are coming out of Southeast Asia. These models usually have little, if any, historical or resale value. If you shelled out for one at an auction, you are probably stuck with it. Unfortunately, the vast majority of models we get asked about fall into this category. 2. A similar category of models could be classified as folk art. These are, as the name implies, locally built models that are an artistic representation of a ship rather than a scale model. Like the decor models, these also usually have little value other than sentimental value. 3. Then there are models that are actual attempts at scale model building, either scratch built or from a kit. Maybe your dad or grandpa built one. The value of these varies widely depending on the subject and the quality of the build, but the number of builders whose work is actually worth a large chunk of change is very, very small. The number of prospective buyers for such models is even smaller. 4. It is an extremely rare model that will turn out to have real value, either due to its artistic merit (built by someone who's a recognized master modeler) or historical value (e.g. a genuine prisoner-of-war bone model). Trust me, there are builders who are good (you would probably ooh and aah over their work), and then there are the builders whom those 'good' modelers look up to - the Stradivaris of our art, if you will. Those builders are few and far between, and grandpa probably wasn't one of them. 5. No matter what kind of model you have, the only people who can give you a true estimation of its worth (meaning, what a real person might actually pay) are those who make their living by doing such things, i.e. museum curators or owners of maritime art galleries. What you get from MSW should only be considered an informed opinion. If you do decide to go to a gallery, just let me prepare you well in advance for the shock you will likely experience upon hearing the appraised value of your model. In our hobby, 'valuable' and 'finely crafted' are not necessarily synonymous. Nine times out of ten, mystery models shown at MSW are, sad to say, essentially worthless in terms of monetary value. Some of those models, to be sure, still have sentimental value for their owners, and that is not to be taken lightly. If you have a model like that, then do what you can to preserve it. If, on the other hand, you were hoping you found an overlooked treasure at a boot sale, well, you most likely didn't. Sorry. Cheers!

Agreed. And one reason why mods occasionally have to hit the magic 'edit' button, Also, might I suggest using the search function to search the key words "best kit, " since this topic comes up fairly regularly? I think you will find some opinions on the matter. Good luck!

It's like a building slip from IKEA!

Diorama, maybe? Oarsmen in full regalia, William IV comfortably ensconced on a cushion ...

Schnellbaukasten is German for "quick-build kit." Not sure a how a POB 3-master qualifies as a 'quick build'.

Ah, Revell of Germany. That makes more sense.

Wait -- Revell re-badged a wood kit?

John, it's about 25mm-ish in diameter.

Just catching up on this thread. I'm actually pretty surprised at the asking price listed above for Blue Crab. $2500 seems almost like a "what's wrong with it?" kind of price.

The kit, marvelous as it is, was designed with the novice builder in mind, so there are a number of simplified features. Fortunately, we have a large number of Fly and Pegasus builds on the forum, both in-progress and completed, and these are provide a wealth of upgrade ideas. I also heartily recommend looking at dubz's Syren log, as he is quite good at adding convincing extra details to ships of the same period and similar rate. I, too, have a Fly in progress, although I started in 2006 (!) and haven't touched her in about three years. Too many projects, dontcha know.

That strip was designed to make the deck planking easier for novice builders. The actual ship did not have that feature.

Doug, I'm assuming you don't have the forecastle and quarterdecks glued in yet, right?

I don't think those are the same outfits. "Bateaux miniatures" is a company that makes model ships. Bateaux Leclerc may be connected to the family somehow, but Bateaux Leclerc was a kit line. They are not high profile within the ship modeling community, and I think they may even have been out of the business for a considerable time. I have seen Leclerc kits for sale on eBay and elsewhere from time to time. I suspect their kits are on par with what was being produced back in the 70s/80s - something like the AL of Canada.

A boxed modeler's tool set may not be that great of an investment (I know this from personal experience). I never use the heavy-duty knife handle that came with the set, or most of the specialty blades. Instead, I use a regular el cheapo craft knife handle and buy #11 blades in 100-packs (much, much cheaper that way). The included gouges are next to worthless; at some point you will probably want to pick up a quality set of gouges, and these are truly one of the 'you get what you pay for' tools of the hobby. Now, as to a few things the boxed set lacks ... 1. Wire-sized drill bits. These break all the time. Buy them in bulk, in a variety of sizes. 2. Round-nose pliers. Very useful for forming all kinds of stuff out of wire, such as eyebolts. 3. Several gauges of blackened, annealed wire, for forming stuff with your round-nosed pliers. 4. Forceps, straight and curved tips. 5. A variety of tweezers. And here's another up-vote for headband magnifiers. Indispensable, IMO, especially for older eyes. Like mine. These are tools I use often. For tools that are used less frequently, it is handy to live next door to a modeler with a fully-equipped shop, so that you can dash over and borrow things.

This is not a very popular technique in our mostly-wood-models community, although I have seen models done like that - mostly miniatures in diorama settings. A search on 'weathering' might yield some tips. Also, the more dedicated steel navy forums out there will have more info on weathering, albeit aimed at steel navy subjects obviously. Good luck with your search!

Ray, Do not be fooled by a label that says a kit is for 'beginners' - that is meant to create sales, not to ensure that you get a good start in the hobby. I believe it is always good advice to start with a simple wooden kit. Wood is different than working in plastic, and a simple kit will get you started well, teach you basic skills, save you money, spare you frustration, not take years to complete, and give you the satisfaction of getting a first wood model finished. HMS Snake is not an easy kit - lots of guns, lots of rigging, lots of repetitive tasks. Save it for a second or third model.